• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Dave Ramsey doesn't like timeshares

kamumma1

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
210
Reaction score
3
Location
Vermont
Hi all -

Anyone ever heard of Dave Ramsey? He's a big personal finance guy and has a radio and cable talk show. He always says that timeshares are a bad idea as their value plumets after you buy them (which is true). And the maintenance fees just continue to go up (also true). He says it's better to just save up and go on vacation. Anyone disagree? I have to say that we have saved money with Marriott. We are working the points system with travel packages and have gotten free airfare for 4 (except for the $40 booking fee) for 3 years in a row. And stayed in some very nice Cat 6 hotels. We didn't finance our 2 units so we aren't paying outrageous interest on them. I really think we came out ahead - especially if you hold them for the long haul, and use the points system for travel packages. Any thoughts?
 
Dave Ramsey may be right. The major advantage of a timeshare is that you are usually in a condo. with all the amenities of your home, i.e. kitchen, laundry, living room, multiple televisions, wifi, etc.

If you were to take a normal vacation without the use of a timeshare then you'd likely end up in a small one room motel/hotel.

There is a cost associated with timeshares, and it likely works out higher than motel/hotel use when all is said and done.
 
Has Dave Ramsey Ever Heard Of Resale Timeshares ?

He's right about value plummeting immediately on those full-freight timeshares when they're bought from timeshare companies for big bux. If he thinks doing that is a non-starter, financially speaking, I won't disagree.

I even take it 1 step farther & say that nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money.

But paying nickels on the full-freight dollar is something else again. I buy a timeshare cheap, & it's residual value hovers right there at approximately what it was when I bought it. Little or no price plummeting involved in resale timeshares.

Plus, via resale timeshares, I can vacation in spacious luxury accommodations for roughly Motel 6 & Super 8 rates -- a practical impossibility in full-freight timeshares.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
Suzie Orman feels the same way.
 
Has Suze Orman Ever Heard Of Resale Timeshares ?

If all Suze & Dave know about timeshares is based on full-freight sales, then they have a major serious gap in their knowledge that they should fill by reading up on resale timeshares before they dispense timeshare advice on radio & TV.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
I wonder what sort of car Dave Ramsy drives or, does he take a taxi anywhere he wants to go? If he owns a car, I bet it's not the least expensive or even the most economical vehicle to own. I wonder what sort of house he lives in? Is it a large house that takes a lot of maintenance or is a a reasonable house that provides everything he needs without the extra expenses that come with high end neighborhoods.

Timeshare is not a logical purchase if you're into penny pinching. It's a luxury purchase that isn't going to save you money. It's a lifestyle purchase that's difficult to validate financially.

There's always going to be someone out there making money by telling you how to spend you money. Dave is just another voice in an industry plagued with people telling me how I should live my life, how I should spend my money, what industry I should work in today, where I should live and what I should drive. I stopped listening to those bozo's long ago and my life's been all the better for it.
 
... Timeshare is not a logical purchase if you're into penny pinching. It's a luxury purchase that isn't going to save you money. It's a lifestyle purchase that's difficult to validate financially. ...

Exactly. I wouldn't expect folks like Dave or Suze to like timeshares - the concept goes against everything they say about incurring no unnecessary debts (maintenance fees?) and owning property outright.

But I don't see how they can say that you can travel in the exact same way as timesharing without purchasing into a system, because I sure couldn't. Nevermind the fact that rental rates for my units are astronomical (for example, the notice in our Barony unit two weeks ago said rack rate was $850/nt,) it would be next to impossible to be able to find an available unit during a busy season. Even if you found a discount and didn't have to pay rack rates, you'd still come up against the availability issue.

Dave and Suze can continue to hawk discount travel all they want, but for most of us here on TUG I think that style just doesn't give us what we want.
 
I wonder what sort of car Dave Ramsy drives or, does he take a taxi anywhere he wants to go? If he owns a car, I bet it's not the least expensive or even the most economical vehicle to own. I wonder what sort of house he lives in? Is it a large house that takes a lot of maintenance or is a a reasonable house that provides everything he needs without the extra expenses that come with high end neighborhoods.

Timeshare is not a logical purchase if you're into penny pinching. It's a luxury purchase that isn't going to save you money. It's a lifestyle purchase that's difficult to validate financially.

There's always going to be someone out there making money by telling you how to spend you money. Dave is just another voice in an industry plagued with people telling me how I should live my life, how I should spend my money, what industry I should work in today, where I should live and what I should drive. I stopped listening to those bozo's long ago and my life's been all the better for it.

:clap:

Well said.
 
Saying that owning a ts is a luxury is a good analogy. Somewhere on TUG I found a calculator to figure out if owning a ts made sense for me. I ran through a few iterations and most of them showed that I would "lose" as much as a few thousand dollars over 20 years. The way I see it, I am more than happy to "lose" that money for the opportunity to stay in a 2BR 2 Bath unit rather than a hotel room. Plus, if/when I am able to l/o my unit and trade it for 2 weeks only paying a couple hundred dollars to do it, well then my "loss" is even smaller.
 
I personally have not seen, read, or heard Dave's "theories" on saving money. But my wife bought one of his books, and attended one of "classes" a feww years ago (before we got together, lol). I am like many of you. I don't need to pay someone to tell me how to spend my money, where to spend it, or anything else. They themselves are out just to make money. IMO they may say they are here to help you, but they are actually here to take money from you and put it into their pockets. If they were here to help me, they would be doing it for free. So, IMO he has no right to tell me how, where, or what I should do with my money. If I want to buy a TS or 5 TS then I am going to do it. As long as my family is well taken care of, my bills are paid, and we are not starving that is all that matters. Sorry for the rant, but people like him just piss me off. And besides, I travel a lot for work, and stay in crummy hotels around 40% of the year. A hotel is not where I want to stay while on a vacation. Sorry Dave....
 
Last edited:
Both Dave and Suze base their info on the majority of developer purchases where someone waddles in on vacation and doesn't do any research and buys on impulse, probably finances at 11 to 14% interest to boot, too. In those cases, I think they're probably dead-on in giving the advice they do. A lot of people that purchase on impulse and finance a timeshare are probably paying easily $3,000 and up a year when you count the maintenance fees and finance charges - that's crazy to me. The real kicker is a lot of people that I talk to that buy on impulse, they don't even use their week or trade it - simply amazing. And some if they want to get rid of it, they make it even worse by paying an upfront company to sell it.

But as you know, we're not the norm on Tug. Without owning the resale Marriott and VRI weeks that I bought, no way would I have had access to the great vacations I have taken at the price I pay. I can't even stay in a Motel 6 hotel room for the price I'm paying for 2 bedroom condos. But I realize I'm not the norm.
 
Last edited:
For me, TS means quality family vacation. You won't get that on regular hotels.

Hotel is nice Bostonian shoes, TS is extra wide Crocs.
Hotel is wool gabardine, TS is fleece
Hotel is downtown, TS is beach
Hotel is sedan, TS is convertible
Hotel is wine, TS is champagne

Hotels and TS are great, the purpose is different. Regarding the price, if you buy developer, you have to keep it for 10 or 15 years to consider it a good investment. Resales nowadays, a great investment most of the time. MF: well you have to pay to use it!
 
I bought three of my timeshares prior to the downturn of the stock market. I believe they have retained more of their value than most major mutual funds over that time.

In my mind, my timeshares are investments in vacationing and future retirement getaways. I value my vacations and need them. My timeshares provide an opportunity to go to great places affordably. IMO, I prefer them over condos or vacation homes. I can retire in an affordable location in the midwest or Carolinas, and spend a few weeks each year near the ocean, mountains, or desert.
 
And, I forgot to mention all the money I save by being able to cook in the ts. When we were last at Disney, all of our breakfasts were made in the room. How much do you think that saved!!?? We bought bottled water that was able to stay cool in our fridge/freezer and then taken to the parks rather than buy $3 bottles there. Heck, on sale we got 24 bottles for $2.99.

Plus the laundry facilities are awesome. We pack half as many clothes, thereby avoiding the airlines fees, and can do laundry at our leisure rather than getting home and having to first start doing two pieces of luggage full.

As someone said, many people buy on impulse. It's not even a resale vs direct argument. Many of the impulse uyers don't end up using the ts or certainly not to its potential. For them, it was a bad purchase but that doesn't mean it's bad for everyone.
 
Buying a timeshare from the developer or from the time share companies is foolish - anyone disagree? Good... we all agree with Dave and Susie then.

As far as the value of purchasing a timeshare any other method? That's where it get's complicated - with the many different ways to purchase a timeshare on the resale market.

To really understand their advice about the matter, you would have to fully understand exactly what they mean by "purchasing a timeshare". Personally, I'm not worried about it... sorry.

These type of discussions keep showing up on TUG, and it's always the same conclusion.
 
They are both right per se. But like many things in life there are some savvy people that aren't the norm, and they can and do, get tremendous value out of TS ownership.

That is what TUG is made up of for the most part. Savvy individuals that aren't your normal TS owners, to say the least.

I know in the 10 years I've owned, I've received great value out of my ownership, and I even bought half my portfolio from Marriott when it made some sense on new resorts.

My big question is the long term viability. So far, value has kept pace with cost, IMHO. Yes MFs have gone up, but so has the cost to rent nice resorts, well up until the economic crash.

I do believe things will rebound and prices will stabilize, but we'll see.



For me my ROI has been outstanding. Even if I sold my portfolio in a fire sale today, in total I still would have a positive ROI when it comes to all the value I've received over the years.

Most TS owners outside of a small percentage, like those on TUG, can't say that, so this Dave character is actually correct for the most part.
 
And, I forgot to mention all the money I save by being able to cook in the ts. When we were last at Disney, all of our breakfasts were made in the room. How much do you think that saved!!?? We bought bottled water that was able to stay cool in our fridge/freezer and then taken to the parks rather than buy $3 bottles there. Heck, on sale we got 24 bottles for $2.99.

We can all affort a $3 bottle of water, but it is not nice, you don't feel good. I like to cook, and if you're with your family and/or friends, it's very funny. It's not about the money you're saving, but how great it is, and how you can amuze yourself. And could be a lot more healthy, too.

Once I read a study that showed that regular american milionaires are well married, and their wifes can cook really good, most of them attended cooking classes. So if you're on your third marriage and your wife can't cook, there's a good chance you're not a milionaire. In conclusion, probably milionaires go to TS.
 
Once I read a study that showed that regular american milionaires are well married, and their wifes can cook really good, most of them attended cooking classes. So if you're on your third marriage and your wife can't cook, there's a good chance you're not a milionaire. In conclusion, probably milionaires go to TS.

I have a couple of wealthy friends and they would never consider owning timeshares. I have talked about how wonderful they are and here are their reasons that they aren't interested.

1. They would be embarassed to tell their other rich friends that they owned a timeshare because the perception of timeshares and timeshare owners is so negative (I have working class friends who also make negative comments when I say that I own timeshares).

2. They won't spend the time and effort needed to make a timeshare valuable. They dont want to reserve their vacations and air fares a year in advance. They don't want to have to be on the phone or on line 10 to 12 months in advance hoping to reserve a week in a location they want to visit. They simply pay what it costs to go where they want, when they want to go, and they reserve it whenever they decide to travel. They don't want to spend the time scouring II and RCI looking for good trades. When they decide to go on vacation (which is usually no more than 2 or 3 months in advance of their travel dates) they call a travel agent, tell them the dates and where they want to go, and they are through with vacation planning. The air tickets, car rentals, and room reservations are done and sent to them by the travel agent. If they want a 2 or 3 bed room condo, they tell the travel agent that is what they want. If they want a luxury hotel, they tell the travel agent.

3. My rich friends tell me that they can travel cheaper through a travel agent than doing the booking themselves in most instances. From some of the trips they take, they travel cheaper than I do after doing a lot of work. One of my friends just got back from a week at St Johns, and the travel agent had them in the Westin for less than $2500 for the whole week including airfare for 2. Another friend went to St Thomas and his total for 4 nights 5 days R/T air for 2 was $1399. They often travel cheaper than we can by having travel agents call them with specials, and they don't have to do anything but say book it.

4. They say that they don't have the ability to plan vacations a year or more in advance due to changing demands at their work. They tell me that they could never be sure that they could take a trip they planned far in advance and that they never would attempt to plan a trip that far out unless it was for a major event like a wedding.

I can't speak for all millionaires, but the few I know don't like the timeshare concept at all.
 
Last edited:
Buying a timeshare from the developer or from the time share companies is foolish - anyone disagree? Good... we all agree with Dave and Susie then.

As far as the value of purchasing a timeshare any other method? That's where it get's complicated - with the many different ways to purchase a timeshare on the resale market.

To really understand their advice about the matter, you would have to fully understand exactly what they mean by "purchasing a timeshare". Personally, I'm not worried about it... sorry.

These type of discussions keep showing up on TUG, and it's always the same conclusion.

Oh good gravy, does EVERY thread need to turn into a slam against developer-purchasers?! You don't need to insult me and every other owner who bought the same way I did as "foolish" to get your point across.

And if you had any knowledge at all about both Dave Ramsey's and Suze Orman's programs, you'd know that they don't care one bit how much you paid for your timeshare. No upfront dollar value could offset the fact that their idea of foolishness is to invest money in property that you don't own outright, and to which you need to pay yearly fees for use.

So there's your different conclusion.
 
Interesting. We bought direct from Marriott, which I am still glad we did given Ile de France was still quite new at the time (there were not many resales and the savings on the 2 I found were about $2000 savings - the value of our gift for buying direct was worth more than that).

Yes, we could have bought an American unit resale, but we bought the one Marriott we could drive to in tough times (like losing my job 2 weeks before our vacation this May, we went anyway - doubt we would have if flying).

But we feel it has been great value. We are a family of 4, and this last trip we took my MIL. It would have meant 2 rooms instead of 1. Because it was a budget trip we brought groceries from the UK (cheaper than France due to the exchange rate right now), brought a case of water and a case of coke (saving $4.50 a pop - they cost 75 cents each). We took less luggage and did our laundry. On the day I was ordered by a doctor to stay in bed (or the soaking tub), the kids enjoyed the kids club inc. jewelry making etc. for free. My MIL and wife enjoyed the spa, steam room and sauna. And we all made use of the DVD player. I was able to get quiet rest while they were all downstairs. All of this was on the Disneyland Paris Golf course in a 2 bedroom villa for less than the price of staying in 1 room in a moderate Disney hotel. Bargain.

Yes - if you are 2 people or maybe 4, can be flexible when you go, and use something like priceline, you will save money. But you cannot stay in a hotel suite let alone a villa/appartment for anywhere near the amount we pay in purchase cost and maintenance.

Let's see, we have since buying, our week, gifts and A/Cs means we have stayed in a 2 bedroom in Paris twice, Newport Coast for a week, 4 nights in the Renaissance on Nob Hill San Francisco and an ocean view suite in the Monterrey Marriott for a night, Son Antem 2 bed villa for a week, and a Playa Andaluzia 2 bed appartment - plus all the little extras like free bottles of wine, parties, shirts, hats etc. so that is 40 nights in 5* accommodation for 4 people, for £7670 or $11,505 or that equates to £191.70 or a night $287.63. This is based on 10 years of finance, and counting the down payment in this time frame too. It will get even cheaper if we were to stick at it for 75 years.

Now, compared to other vacations, we have paid $500 a night for a hotel room in Disneyland's Grand Californian before, and $390 for a room at WDW's Animal Kingdom Lodge. The Disneyland Hotel at Paris last October cost $450 a night. If you want a suite in one of those hotels you are looking at $4500 a night). Heck, even out local no frills Holiday Inn Express charges $120 for a 2 person room. To me, while MVCI is not cheap, it is a bargain if you want a luxury style. And this does not include the savings of eating breakfast and some meals in the units compared to hotel meals. Also, when we went to Spain, we could travel light because of the washer, this saved us $90 in extra baggage fees. Renters pay Marriott $500 a night for Ile de France.

So maybe I am a mug for buying direct, but I don't feel like one. Now if I want an older timeshare (perhaps Playa or Son Antem), then resale is the way to go. But if you want a new, someone has to buy direct. WE wanted Paris, in the times where we could travel for the kids' school dates. That's what we bought. But we think for us, it is totally the right thing (the kids were 2 and 6 when we bought, perfect).
 
Last edited:
Oh good gravy, does EVERY thread need to turn into a slam against developer-purchasers?! You don't need to insult me and every other owner who bought the same way I did as "foolish" to get your point across.

And if you had any knowledge at all about both Dave Ramsey's and Suze Orman's programs, you'd know that they don't care one bit how much you paid for your timeshare. No upfront dollar value could offset the fact that their idea of foolishness is to invest money in property that you don't own outright, and to which you need to pay yearly fees for use.

So there's your different conclusion.


Not a slam at all... if you feel that purchasing an item that you will be able to sell for only 10% of the purchase price (or less), the minute you sign the documents is a smart move... then I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions about your advice.
 
Not a slam at all... if you feel that purchasing an item that you will be able to sell for only 10% of the purchase price (or less), the minute you sign the documents is a smart move... then I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions about your advice.

I guess you think buying new cars are stupid too? I do this, knowing that once I drive my car out of the garage, it has lost significant value. But I have more rights if it goes wrong, it is to my specification, and I do a lot of miles so need reliabiltiy. To me it is good value. If my needs were to use it a few miles each day and I did not care much about make, model and colour, then a 2nd hand car would work just fine. TS is similar.
 
Last edited:
Ignorance is Bliss!

Sorry, folks, but I get really irritated when people make uninformed statements about people, such as:

"I wonder what sort of car Dave Ramsy drives . . . There's always going to be someone out there making money by telling you how to spend you money. . . telling me how I should live my life, how I should spend my money, what industry I should work in today, where I should live and what I should drive. "

"I personally have not seen, read, or heard Dave's "theories" on saving money . . . people like him just piss me off."

Here's a primer for the uniformed:

Dave Ramsey doesn't try to tell people how to live their lives, etc. He gives advice to those who want to live in "financial peace." He speaks from the voice of experience (he faced financial ruin at age 26) and uses his experience to help keep others from falling into the same pit. "The borrower is slave to the lender" is his credo. (SO TRUE!) He advises following a budget, paying cash for purchases, having an emergency fund of at least 6 months expenses and living within one's means. While he may not know as much about timesharing as some on these boards, he knows a lot about financial common sense!

While we don't follow every single tenet of Dave's program, we personally know several families, including ours, who have Dave to thank for the fact that in these tough economic times, our lifestyles and retirement plans have changed very minimally.

The fact of the matter is that many people: 1) buy at developer prices and 2) finance timeshare purchases. These are two things that Dave would definitely recommend against. Additionally, most timeshares depreciate dramatically after purchase, maintenace fees almost never go down and are an ongoing liability, and timeshares usually don't sell easily or quickly in times of financial crisis. This makes timeshare a risky purchase for many.

It's great that so many of us on these boards are prosperous, make good financial decisions and don't have worry about our economic futures. Unfortunately, many of our fellow citizens don't make wise financial choices and need people like Dave Ramsey (or Suze Orman) to help them get back on track!
 
Not a slam at all... if you feel that purchasing an item that you will be able to sell for only 10% of the purchase price (or less), the minute you sign the documents is a smart move... then I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions about your advice.

What advice is that, exactly? Where do you see me advising that everyone needs to buy timeshares in the exact same way I did? Where do you see me advising that any other way is worthy of insult? Where do you see me advising anything at all?!?!

All I did was respond to the topic of the thread which is that Dave Ramsey thinks timeshares are not a good investment. (They're not, in his book, no matter which way they're puchased.) And I would have stopped there if you hadn't decided that this thread was one more opportunity to sidetrack into insulting developer-purchasers.
 
Top