Dave Ramsey doesn't like timeshares

[timeos2]

The car has a base value that you own - not so the timeshare

I guess you think buying new cars are stupid too? I do this, knowing that once I drive my car out of the garage, it has lost significant value. But I have more rights if it goes wrong, it is to my specification, and I do a lot of miles so need reliabiltiy. To me it is good value. If my needs were to use it a few miles each day and I did not care much about make, model and colour, then a 2nd hand car would work just fine. TS is similar.

Show me a new car that loses 90% of the value the day you take possession (and Yugo's don't count!) and then you have a case. Timeshares set the bar for depreciation not just in theory but in actual, everyday fact. A Wyndham retail purchase that costs $27,900 from the developer is worth - and I'm being GENEROUS giving it a value of $.02/point vs the $.01 or less they actually sell for everyday - $3,720. the day the rescind right ends. Nothing comes close to that rate of instant depreciation. While buying a new car isn't technically the most economical choice it isn't the guaranteed fiscal disaster the purchase of a "new" (which really doesn't exist) timeshare week represents. There is no real comparison between the two choices. The "used" timeshare for a savings of 50-90%+ is the exact same unit(s) and carry the exact same annual fees you will get if you foolishly pay the retail price. The only difference is how much you paid for that use privilege.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Mouthful.

Life intervenes and what to do with your week takes a back burner and is all too often forgotten.

I think that's right.

We didn't get into timeshares until we were already old retired folks with nothing to do but goof off 24-7-365.

Might as well play The Timeshare Game as sit around doing Sudoku & ordering stuff off The Shopping Channel, etc.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[burg1121]

Not a slam at all... if you feel that purchasing an item that you will be able to sell for only 10% of the purchase price (or less), the minute you sign the documents is a smart move... then I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions about your advice.

Could you tell me where I can get a summer week at MGO for $2100.00 I could use another week at 10% of what I paid for my first.

 

[buzzy]

I actually believe a lot of what Dave Ramsey says but he is very black and white on most things. One of them is credit card debt....he feels you should never use a credit card and always use a debit card to pay for your purchases immediately. We use our credit cards to our advantage and use a card immediately after a statement cut off date so that we can use the credit card companies money for almost 2 months, not to mention the free nights of hotel stays and cash back that we receive as well, without paying any interest. We have numerous credit cards that we use at different times for this purpose.

For us, the timeshare issue was one of vacationing with a family of 5....the world is designed for families of 4.....hotel rooms, cars, restaurants and we looked at timeshare ownership as a way to help us vacation where we did not have to cram into a room that was too small for us or overspend on 2 rooms. We "broke even" on our intial investment (resale) and now look at it as the maintenance fees being the cost of the vacation week. As long as the maintenance fees do not skyrocket I think we are still ahead. I will say though that if we were a family of 4 we would probably not be timeshare owners as we still enjoy full service hotels.

 

[M. Henley]

So What?

Who gives a s**t what Dave Ramsey likes, or dislikes for that matter.

 

[littlestar]

I actually believe a lot of what Dave Ramsey says but he is very black and white on most things. One of them is credit card debt....he feels you should never use a credit card and always use a debit card to pay for your purchases immediately. We use our credit cards to our advantage and use a card immediately after a statement cut off date so that we can use the credit card companies money for almost 2 months, not to mention the free nights of hotel stays and cash back that we receive as well, without paying any interest. We have numerous credit cards that we use at different times for this purpose.

For us, the timeshare issue was one of vacationing with a family of 5....the world is designed for families of 4.....hotel rooms, cars, restaurants and we looked at timeshare ownership as a way to help us vacation where we did not have to cram into a room that was too small for us or overspend on 2 rooms. We "broke even" on our intial investment (resale) and now look at it as the maintenance fees being the cost of the vacation week. As long as the maintenance fees do not skyrocket I think we are still ahead. I will say though that if we were a family of 4 we would probably not be timeshare owners as we still enjoy full service hotels.

I, too, think most of his advice is pretty black and white. We use a reward credit card and never carry a balance on it and I won't use a debit card. But Dave's books do make you think about how the United States has been conditioned in the last 30 years to think "debt" is acceptable on everything. He does have a good point you have to admit. Maybe with the recession and tough economy the new status symbol will be a paid-off mortgage.

I'm with you on the timeshares - I figure if Marriott and Disney keep my resorts in good shape with reasonable maintenance fees, then I'll hang on to them. If they don't, forget it - I'll sell and just go back to renting. I constantly watch what companies do - even brand names, because nobody else is going to have my best interest at heart but me.

 

[josh1231]

I actually believe a lot of what Dave Ramsey says but he is very black and white on most things. One of them is credit card debt....he feels you should never use a credit card and always use a debit card to pay for your purchases immediately. We use our credit cards to our advantage and use a card immediately after a statement cut off date so that we can use the credit card companies money for almost 2 months, not to mention the free nights of hotel stays and cash back that we receive as well, without paying any interest. We have numerous credit cards that we use at different times for this purpose.

For us, the timeshare issue was one of vacationing with a family of 5....the world is designed for families of 4.....hotel rooms, cars, restaurants and we looked at timeshare ownership as a way to help us vacation where we did not have to cram into a room that was too small for us or overspend on 2 rooms. We "broke even" on our intial investment (resale) and now look at it as the maintenance fees being the cost of the vacation week. As long as the maintenance fees do not skyrocket I think we are still ahead. I will say though that if we were a family of 4 we would probably not be timeshare owners as we still enjoy full service hotels.

Just being a naysayer here, but I believe Dave Ramsey would say that nobody gets rich off of "points", and if you have a couple thousand dollars in monthly expenses, the couple percent you might gain on that money is not worth running the risk of charging a debt you can't afford to pay.

 

[josh1231]

Who gives a s**t what Dave Ramsey likes, or dislikes for that matter.

I try to learn everything I can from people who are better at something than I am, thus Dave Ramsey is richer than I, so there must be something I can learn from him about money.

 

[davewasbaloo]

I try to learn everything I can from people who are better at something than I am, thus Dave Ramsey is richer than I, so there must be something I can learn from him about money.

But is he happy? :ignore:

 

[josh1231]

But is he happy? :ignore:

LOL, don't know, but he seems pretty happy .

 

[buzzy]

Just being a naysayer here, but I believe Dave Ramsey would say that nobody gets rich off of "points", and if you have a couple thousand dollars in monthly expenses, the couple percent you might gain on that money is not worth running the risk of charging a debt you can't afford to pay.

I think I HAVE actually heard him say something to that effect. Most people cannot take the risks associated with having that kind of debt exposure without the possiblility of not being able to pay it and it is not worth the points or cash back. His point is it is better to just pay for it immediately because the majority of people do not have the discipline to sustain paying it off on a monthly basis. We pay for our cars in cash and do not have any monthly debt other than a small mortgage. We are self employed, charge a lot on a monthly basis and our "cash back" or free nights are pretty substantial. While we do not get rich off of the points, it is a nice perk for things we would pay for anyway....

 

[littlestar]

Dave Ramsey's straight talk on dealing with deadbeat relatives is pretty funny. You know, when you have the brother-in-law that hits you up for a loan that you know he's never going to pay back.

I laughed out loud at his quote that you need to "leave the cave, kill something and drag it home." In other words, you need to get a job and have some income coming in. His books are really pretty entertaining and quite comical to read.

I've heard him talk about nice vacations and his books aren't against taking a vacation - he just doesn't think debt is the way to take one.

 

[JimC]

They (DR & SO) are both excellent media personalities that sell basic financial advice. Nothing spectacular or sophisticated, just plain vanilla. I'm not sure what particular expertise or value either one brings to a discussion of timeshares. But it is interesting to get the views of all to add to the mix.

We switched to timeshares because it fits what and how we want to vacation.

 

[mas]

ROFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ankles Off.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

...Ankles??

 

[Beverley]

I wonder what sort of car Dave Ramsy drives or, does he take a taxi anywhere he wants to go? If he owns a car, I bet it's not the least expensive or even the most economical vehicle to own. I wonder what sort of house he lives in? Is it a large house that takes a lot of maintenance or is a a reasonable house that provides everything he needs without the extra expenses that come with high end neighborhoods.

Timeshare is not a logical purchase if you're into penny pinching. It's a luxury purchase that isn't going to save you money. It's a lifestyle purchase that's difficult to validate financially.

There's always going to be someone out there making money by telling you how to spend you money. Dave is just another voice in an industry plagued with people telling me how I should live my life, how I should spend my money, what industry I should work in today, where I should live and what I should drive. I stopped listening to those bozo's long ago and my life's been all the better for it.

BRAVO!

Well put.

Beverley

 

[dioxide45]

Who gives a s**t what Dave Ramsey likes, or dislikes for that matter.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion in a positive way.

 

[#1 Cowboys Fan]

After MANY posts---I'm wondering why this thread is on the Marriott Forum??

Pat

 

[AwayWeGo]

What, Then ?

Ankles?

Arms ?

Abdomen ?

Arches ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[MLC]

My friends I was referring to have multi millions cash in the bank, they don't owe a dollar on their homes, and they don't finance anything. They have multi million dollar summer homes in the Highlands NC and they own multi million dollar homes they reside in. They mostly drive Toyotas and Volvos and Lexuses, no BMW's or Mercedes as most think they are a waste of money. One of my friends has a paid for $8 million dollar home on the beach in Naples FL, a multi million dollar home in Virginia, and a million dollar cond in Washington DC. I didn't want to give details as they really weren't necessary until asked if they are really millionaires. When I say wealthy millionaires, I mean just that.

I am not wealthy :annoyed: , I just have some wealthy friends I met in college who remained friends even though I remained middle class. I can afford timeshares (I own over 20) and I am not wealthy. I owe money on my home and on one of my cars, and none are german. My friends who are very wealthy wouldn't consider owning a timeshare, and I doubt that many people laying next to you at the timeshare pool are millionaires. Millionaires don't typically want the trouble of owning timeshares. If they want this type of lifestyle they pay to vacation or if they really like a locale they buy a home there.

I simply listed the reasons they gave me for not being interested when I was bragging on all the places I have gone and all the trips I made purely because I own timeshares. They explained to me how many of the places I was bragging on they had been to also and how cheaply they had made their trips using travel agents. They also talked about the places they love to go like Bali, Shell Haii (sp?), St Kitts, trinidad, Tobago etc where there are few timeshares. I am not one of the priviledged few who can travel where I want whenever I decide to go. I own timeshares and try to travel wherever I want as cheap as I can.

I was not giving you a scientific study surveying hundreds of millionaires, I was simply telling you how the limited number of millionaires I know personally feel about timeshares

BTW, if you own a half dozen really nice timeshares right now and sell them, the proceeds from all 6 sales probably won't be enough to buy you a double wide trailer.

You are correct. I have the same type of friends and they do not own timeshares for the same reasons you have said. I have given some of my weeks to vacation and they loved it. They just do not want to hassles of trying to go on vacation.

 

[jimf41]

ace2000
Not a slam at all... if you feel that purchasing an item that you will be able to sell for only 10% of the purchase price (or less), the minute you sign the documents is a smart move... then I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions about your advice.

burg1121
Could you tell me where I can get a summer week at MGO for $2100.00 I could use another week at 10% of what I paid for my first.

He can't, and he can't get me another Ocean pointe plat for $1950 or a Frenchman's Cove 2bdm pres week for $3700 either. If he can I'll be more than willing to pay him double for either unit.

timeos2
Timeshares set the bar for depreciation not just in theory but in actual, everyday fact. A Wyndham retail purchase that costs $27,900 from the developer is worth - and I'm being GENEROUS giving it a value of $.02/point vs the $.01 or less they actually sell for everyday - $3,720. the day the rescind right ends.

This is the Marriott forum. Maybe the folks on the Wyndham forum would find this info of some use. Is there a Marriott property somewhere that would only sell for 13% of its cost the day after you bought it?

 

[ace2000]

jimf41 - you are quiblling over the details that have nothing to do with the OP's original post.

This is a thread about what Dave Ramsey thinks about purchasing timeshares in general. Do you think he was making reference to Marriott property specifically? I don't think so, perhaps you know differently.

For some reason, the moderators have chosen to leave this thread in the Marriott section. But, obviously the discussion covers more than Marriott.

The 10% value figure covers developer purchases in general, there will obviously be some valued higher and some lower. I think that is a fair figure for the overall resale market after being purchased directly from the developer. In fact, you can purchase some resale Marriott units for that 10% price.

 

[josh1231]

ace2000
timeos2
Timeshares set the bar for depreciation not just in theory but in actual, everyday fact. A Wyndham retail purchase that costs $27,900 from the developer is worth - and I'm being GENEROUS giving it a value of $.02/point vs the $.01 or less they actually sell for everyday - $3,720. the day the rescind right ends.

This is the Marriott forum. Maybe the folks on the Wyndham forum would find this info of some use. Is there a Marriott property somewhere that would only sell for 13% of its cost the day after you bought it?

Yes, I believe there are several that could only be sold for 13% of purchase price. Breckenridge Silver bought directly from developer. They go often on ebay for $1. If you can buy any of the Vail properties still, they would go for less. Ocean Point Silver sells for $5000 on ebay, about 18% of its developer price. Desert Springs Silver. They go on ebay for $500, and I assume they cost over $4000 from Marriott. Many of the Hilton Head Bronze and Silvers go for less than $500, which I'm sure is less than 13%. Williamsburg silver goes for $700 on ebay, etc...

I bought Newport Coast 2 months ago for $5500, or 18% of what Marriott sells it for.

 

[timeos2]

Even the top have a terrible record

This is the Marriott forum. Maybe the folks on the Wyndham forum would find this info of some use. Is there a Marriott property somewhere that would only sell for 13% of its cost the day after you bought it?

No - but most now sell at 40% or less for the majority of weeks (excepting those few super high demand periods that may hold 60-70% after retail sale). No car suffers a 40-60% loss on day 10 either. Timeshares, regardless of brand, still hold the record for depreciation resale vs retail pricing.

 

[ace2000]

Yes, I believe there are several that could only be sold for 13% of purchase price. Breckenridge Silver bought directly from developer. They go often on ebay for $1. If you can buy any of the Vail properties still, they would go for less. Ocean Point Silver sells for $5000 on ebay, about 18% of its developer price. Desert Springs Silver. They go on ebay for $500, and I assume they cost over $4000 from Marriott. Many of the Hilton Head Bronze and Silvers go for less than $500, which I'm sure is less than 13%. Williamsburg silver goes for $700 on ebay, etc...

I bought Newport Coast 2 months ago for $5500, or 18% of what Marriott sells it for.

All you have to do is look at completed listings on eBay. There are some ads for Marriott timeshares that couldn't even pull a minimum bid of $1. Marriott has not been immune to the latest downturn in resale pricing...

 

[jimf41]

Hi all -

Anyone ever heard of Dave Ramsey? He's a big personal finance guy and has a radio and cable talk show. He always says that timeshares are a bad idea as their value plumets after you buy them (which is true). And the maintenance fees just continue to go up (also true). He says it's better to just save up and go on vacation. Anyone disagree? I have to say that we have saved money with Marriott. We are working the points system with travel packages and have gotten free airfare for 4 (except for the $40 booking fee) for 3 years in a row. And stayed in some very nice Cat 6 hotels. We didn't finance our 2 units so we aren't paying outrageous interest on them. I really think we came out ahead - especially if you hold them for the long haul, and use the points system for travel packages. Any thoughts?

jimf41 - you are quiblling over the details that have nothing to do with the OP's original post.

This is a thread about what Dave Ramsey thinks about purchasing timeshares in general. Do you think he was making reference to Marriott property specifically? I don't think so, perhaps you know differently.

For some reason, the moderators have chosen to leave this thread in the Marriott section. But, obviously the discussion covers more than Marriott.

The 10% value figure covers developer purchases in general, there will obviously be some valued higher and some lower. I think that is a fair figure for the overall resale market after being purchased directly from the developer. In fact, you can purchase some resale Marriott units for that 10% price.

The OP was a Marriott owner, posting on the Marriott forum, about how Ramsey's comments differed with his own Marriott TS experiences. The OP never asked for comments on TS purchases in general, only about MVCI.