CWA Deeds

[Arimaas]

Just curious... does anyone here own a CWA deed? I ended up picking one up for nothing off of TUG - honestly, I didn't know it was CWA until I signed the paperwork, they told me it was an actual deeded deed. Either way, the only thing I am a bit annoyed about is the maintenance fees. I'm hoping that they don't go up drastically every year, but I know it's based on the average of the points in the trust. I don't really need the extra 3 months of ARP, but maybe it will help for Newport in the warmer months. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on it, since I am probably paying $150 more a year for CWA than I could be if I got a different deed. I have 126K points. Does certified exit take back CWA deeds? Are the sale people still pushing CWA like they used to? Thankfully haven't been to a sales meeting in a long time, Thanks.

 

[bnoble]

You won't know what they will/won't take back until you ask (and there is at least some evidence that it depends not only on what is being asked about, but who is doing the asking.) At 126K, it's not the biggest mistake in the world. One reason they are high: you have less than the "minimum" number of points for the Program Fee---it is the larger of $0.66/K or $170. So, below about 260K points or so, you are paying the flat rate of $170.

Out of curiosity, did the seller give you an incorrect figure for the annual fees, or were they just never mentioned? I suspect it's fairly easy for some folks to not fully understand what they own---the system is not simple---so I can understand the confusion around deeded vs. CWA. It would be more concerning if you were given the wrong fee total.

 

[Rolltydr]

Just curious... does anyone here own a CWA deed? I ended up picking one up for nothing off of TUG - honestly, I didn't know it was CWA until I signed the paperwork, they told me it was an actual deeded deed. Either way, the only thing I am a bit annoyed about is the maintenance fees. I'm hoping that they don't go up drastically every year, but I know it's based on the average of the points in the trust. I don't really need the extra 3 months of ARP, but maybe it will help for Newport in the warmer months. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on it, since I am probably paying $150 more a year for CWA than I could be if I got a different deed. I have 126K points. Does certified exit take back CWA deeds? Are the sale people still pushing CWA like they used to? Thankfully haven't been to a sales meeting in a long time, Thanks.

We own 450k CWA developer points. We love it and I don’t get too worked up over the maintenance fees. They do go up a little annually but not much, probably in line with inflation. I don’t go to sales meetings any more but past experience is that whatever you own, you need something else. We have what we want. We enjoy the locations, the space the units provide and the amenities. I figure we’re either paying Wyndham, or we’re paying VRBO which may not be as nice and roomy, or a hotel which is neither, and probably costs more. If you have what you need, enjoy it, and can afford it, don’t overthink it.

 

[Jan M.]

It's actually good to have some CWA points in addition to select, presidential reserve or Margaritaville points. Having some CWA points means you can book the CWA inventory before 10 months. You can't book that inventory with other kinds of points until 10 months or less.

 

[Arimaas]

You won't know what they will/won't take back until you ask (and there is at least some evidence that it depends not only on what is being asked about, but who is doing the asking.) At 126K, it's not the biggest mistake in the world. One reason they are high: you have less than the "minimum" number of points for the Program Fee---it is the larger of $0.66/K or $170. So, below about 260K points or so, you are paying the flat rate of $170.

Out of curiosity, did the seller give you an incorrect figure for the annual fees, or were they just never mentioned? I suspect it's fairly easy for some folks to not fully understand what they own---the system is not simple---so I can understand the confusion around deeded vs. CWA. It would be more concerning if you were given the wrong fee total.

I failed to mention that I also have a resale converted fixed week 154k points at Fairfield glade contract so I’m paying about the same in program fees now than I was before I added the 126k CWA.

The seller told me about the right fees. But I figured they were including the price with the program fee not just the HOA so I mistakenly thought the maintenance would have been a little less. I asked them but like you mentioned, the seller had no idea what I was talking about or what they had. Either way no big deal like you said. I pay about $83 a month for the 154k fixed week and $80 a month for the 126k CWA. Over the year though, I probably could have saved about $140 with buying a lower MF contract but the sale price was right on this one (I got it for completely free) and I already used the CWA points to book Newport in the first week of June at about 11 months out so I guess I’m just going to take advantage of the ARP.

I was just curious people’s thoughts. The reason I asked about the ovations is if I want to get rid of this eventually for a lower MF deed I was wondering how hard that might be. Not sure many TUGers take CWA points for closing cost.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Here is the video I made last week on how to find a good Wyndham deed. I explained basically what Jan said. Never buy CWA unless you run into a problem where you can't get the inventory you need. I also explained how to find which deeds are the best ones to grab. I think Wyndham takes back CWA. Try and see if you use the ARP. If not, give it back.

 

[Arimaas]

Here is the video I made last week on how to find a good Wyndham deed. I explained basically what Jan said. Never buy CWA unless you run into a problem where you can't get the inventory you need. I also explained how to find which deeds are the best ones to grab. I think Wyndham takes back CWA. Try and see if you use the ARP. If not, give it back.

I watched your videos. I thought they were well done. I’m not new to Wyndham. Resale owner since 2019. I was a Hilton resale owner since 2017 but recently gave that deed away to up my Wyndham.

I actually only grabbed this Becauee the price is right and the eBay inventory was pretty poor, the winning bids were either being artificially driven up or really went for more than they were worth, when I was looking back in the early part of this year so I just jumped on this. The MFs aren’t too crazy but I just don’t like paying more for something when I don’t have to.

If I get bored maybe I’ll look to pick up a different contract and dump this back to Wyndham but for now, for an extra $145 a year, I guess I can keep it. No real great loss.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I watched your videos. I thought they were well done. I’m not new to Wyndham. Resale owner since 2019. I was a Hilton resale owner since 2017 but recently gave that deed away to up my Wyndham.

I actually only grabbed this Becauee the price is right and the eBay inventory was pretty poor, the winning bids were either being artificially driven up or really went for more than they were worth, when I was looking back in the early part of this year so I just jumped on this. The MFs aren’t too crazy but I just don’t like paying more for something when I don’t have to.

If I get bored maybe I’ll look to pick up a different contract and dump this back to Wyndham but for now, for an extra $145 a year, I guess I can keep it. No real great loss.

Exactly 126,000 CWA points will get you a week at Limetree in a studio in St Thomas during snow season if you live up north. It will also get you a week in a 1 bedroom presidential at bonnet creek during Thanksgiving week. That's all I know what that amount is good for.

 

[paxsarah]

Exactly 126,000 CWA points will get you a week at Limetree in a studio in St Thomas during snow season if you live up north. It will also get you a week in a 1 bedroom presidential at bonnet creek during Thanksgiving week. That's all I know what that amount is good for.

It’s a good thing they have 280,000 to work with then and expand their choices.

 

[r4rab]

We've owned CWA contracts for a number of years. The MFs go up about 2-4% annually, typically similar to inflation+1%. We like the ability to book in a large number of places and have used ARP occasionally, typically when planning a big family vacation around Thanksgiving. I think CWA gets a lot of knocks when it shouldn't.

 

[paxsarah]

We've owned CWA contracts for a number of years. The MFs go up about 2-4% annually, typically similar to inflation+1%. We like the ability to book in a large number of places and have used ARP occasionally, typically when planning a big family vacation around Thanksgiving. I think CWA gets a lot of knocks when it shouldn't.

I have the sense that if I owned CWA I’d probably use the heck out of 13-month ARP (whether it was truly necessary or not) since I already regularly book at 10 months. So it’s one of those things I’m glad I never had (like heated seats or a pellet ice maker) because I wouldn’t be able to live without it once I tried it.

 

[Ty1on]

We've owned CWA contracts for a number of years. The MFs go up about 2-4% annually, typically similar to inflation+1%. We like the ability to book in a large number of places and have used ARP occasionally, typically when planning a big family vacation around Thanksgiving. I think CWA gets a lot of knocks when it shouldn't.

MF typically go up 2-4% annually. The knock is the couple years when MF took stair steps upward, after initially having attractive MF that caused a lot of people to buy in. When Wyndham started dumping recaptured high MF contracts into CWA, it really wrecked CWA's rate.

 

[Arimaas]

I have the sense that if I owned CWA I’d probably use the heck out of 13-month ARP (whether it was truly necessary or not) since I already regularly book at 10 months. So it’s one of those things I’m glad I never had (like heated seats or a pellet ice maker) because I wouldn’t be able to live without it once I tried it.

I’m not so sure how helpful the ARP is with CWA honestly. It’s still a small bank of rooms at each property and I’m still fighting with everyone else with ARP there. I was able to book last week of may 2023 In Newport yesterday or day before so I guess that counts.

 

[Ty1on]

I’m not so sure how helpful the ARP is with CWA honestly. It’s still a small bank of rooms at each property and I’m still fighting with everyone else with ARP there. I was able to book last week of may 2023 In Newport yesterday or day before so I guess that counts.

Depending on the property, the amount of inventory in CWA could surprise you.

 

[Arimaas]

MF typically go up 2-4% annually. The knock is the couple years when MF took stair steps upward, after initially having attractive MF that caused a lot of people to buy in. When Wyndham started dumping recaptured high MF contracts into CWA, it really wrecked CWA's rate.

Smart of Wyndham to take those deeds back through ovations and dump it into CWA. i assume that’s what they do. Then they don’t get stuck with MFs and they just sell some more CWA

 

[Ty1on]

BTW if you own Glade, your average MF per point just went down with this purchase.

 

[Arimaas]

BTW if you own Glade, your average MF per point just went down with this purchase.

It went up. Fairfield Glade converted fixed week is $83.06 a month for 154k. 126k CWA is $79.70.

 

[Ty1on]

It went up. Fairfield Glade converted fixed week is $83.06 a month for 154k. 126k CWA is $79.70.

You have a decent points Glade for the fixed MF. I forget it's FW Conversion. I get fewer points for the same fixed rate, thus much hery MF/Pt

 

[Arimaas]

You have a decent points Glade for the fixed MF. I forget it's FW Conversion. I get fewer points for the same fixed rate, thus much hery MF/Pt

Not sure if my math is correct but I average about seven cents per thousand points a year in maintenance it seems. Not sure where that sits on the high/low scale.

 

[Ty1on]

Seven dollars per rhousand, i think it is on the just highr than average end.

 

[bnoble]

Not sure where that sits on the high/low scale.

If that includes the program fee, probably about average. If it does not include the program fee, maybe just a bit above.

 

[Arimaas]

If that includes the program fee, probably about average. If it does not include the program fee, maybe just a bit above.

Includes program fee.

I’ll take a bit above average. It’s better than a lot about average

 

[cbyrne1174]

My distain towards CWA is that Wyndham can just throw whatever they want in there at places where 13 month ARP is useless and the MFs are rediculous. It's wasteful.

Honestly I think the best strategy towards availability is to just own resale within multiple systems. On top of that, own in the most econimical way (low MF) and be flexible with your plans.

I personally don't want to work past when I am eligible for a pension and am perfectly content with living frugally and being done with working sooner. The more you spend on leisure, the longer you're going to have to work to pay it off. Just figure out what is the best value, splurge once in a while and enjoy life as best you can without being stuck working the last 30 years that you have.

 

[HitchHiker71]

My distain towards CWA is that Wyndham can just throw whatever they want in there at places where 13 month ARP is useless and the MFs are rediculous. It's wasteful.

This is a common misconception with CWA. CWA MFs represent the median for MFs across Wyndham in reality. Not too low, not too high, just right in other words. Yes it's higher than some of the top ten lowest resorts for MFs that people here on TUG commonly target for resale purchases - but it's not overly high - it's close the median. As someone else said - it's ideal to own both CWA and CWS if possible - especially if you are booking in the ARP window for certain resorts - as you then have access to ARP inventory at certain resorts from both types of contracts. Granted you cannot combine the points in the ARP window - so you would need to own enough points under each contract to book what is desired in the ARP window - but as long as you know this going in - it's advantageous owning both for owners who fall into this use case scenario.

 

[Eric B]

CWA MFs represent the median for MFs across Wyndham in reality. Not too low, not too high, just right in other words.

IMHO, that's really a matter of perspective. CWA does wind up somewhere in the middle of the MF range - on the high middle side of the ones that are reported on TUG, though I couldn't tell you if that's representative of the actual spectrum of MFs throughout the Wyndham resorts. It isn't really the median as that term is used in math and statistics, though it might "represent" the median to those not skilled in the art. As others have said, there are some pros and cons to CWA - it can give a non-VIP owner access to certain Margaritaville resorts at particular times of the year in ARP, for example. I own a small CWA contract that I bought in order to achieve VIPG status before the update to the levels a couple of years ago, recognizing that the MF costs would be higher than I really like.

As for the "just right", that, too, is a matter of perspective. So far I haven't met anyone that has ever expressed the opinion that their MFs on any resort are "too low", though I suppose it is a possibility for someone with a long term ownership perspective who thinks there are potential costs being missed by the HOA that will inevitably result in a special assessment down the road. IMHO, the CWA trust structure with many resorts adequately addresses that by allowing cost spreading.

As an informed consumer, my preference is for the low cost resale ones like Bali Hai and Canterbury that get me about a 40-42% discount on the real cost of stays at the 10-month point (SRP) as compared to someone using CWA - that beats my VIPG discount of 35% with my developer ownership, though I recognize I won't get upgrades through the reservation system (which are spotty for the automatic ones anyway). There haven't been many reservations I've been unable to get at 10 months out, though I am not trying for the 4 BR Presidential Unit Christmas or Thanksgiving reservations at Bonnett Creek, etc.

There can be good reasons for wanting to own CWA - for me it was minimizing the buy in cost to the VIP status I desired in a way that penciled out as covering the higher MFs in the out years. I was also looking at a very small resale CWA contract when they broke apart resale and developer treatment in order to get an extra resale HK in a cost-effective manner. - I wound up getting a slightly larger resale CWS contract in a low cost resort instead in the end.

Bottom line for me is that it's best to research and understand the product when you are considering picking it up and compare the alternatives in order to select the one that will work best for your planned usage.