credit ruined by [defaulting on] timeshare

[Rent_Share]

A property tax sale wipes out the HOA's claim

 

[cleo_32_2000]

Wow, harsh words...

weegie57, thanks for posting this. People frequently post here asking 'What happens if I just quit paying my MF? What can they do?' Some friendly TUGger frequently tells them to just give the thing away and get their name off the deed. At the worst, they can get foreclosed on, sent to collection, credit ruined, and then can't sell the TS because it has a lien. They usually just go away, having not taken what they were told seriously.

Since you have posted the above, now we know. And actually contrary to your title to the thread, the timeshare didn't ruin your credit. You did. By not paying the responsibility you took on when you bought it. Your problem is not the timeshare's fault.

We are sorry for your predicament, but not sympathetic. This is the Timeshare USER'S Group. We use our timeshares. And when some deadbeat defaults on their responsibility, all our payments go up to cover what people like you didn't pay, along with the legal fees to collect it.

So pay up what you owe, then either USE the TS or get rid of it. We can help with that part.

Jim

You are not representing me with this rude reply.

 

[Passepartout]

You are not representing me with this rude reply.

Not asking to represent you or even for you to agree with me. As I explained back in #75. If you want to give the deadbeat (not unkind, just an accurate description of someone who doesn't pay their bills) absolution and pay his MF, that's your prerogative. Not mine.

Sorry if my response was too harsh for your sensitivities. It was not directed at you.

Jim

 

[Ridewithme38]

It's going to be interesting if he comes back on and, after having a lawyer contact the resort and check rental records....The resort actually owes HIM money....

Thats the problem with BOD's they'll do anything they can to scam the rest of the owners out of money

 

[Passepartout]

It's going to be interesting if he comes back on and, after having a lawyer contact the resort and check rental records....The resort actually owes HIM money....

Thats the problem with BOD's they'll do anything they can to scam the rest of the owners out of money

I doubt seriously that your premise is likely. Any surplus the HOA might have collected in rent would be eaten up by late charges and fees associated with collection. It IS indeed going to be interesting if he returns with info on how this finally works out.

As I asked my bankruptcy atty DW about this guy's situation, and she informs me that there is debt forgiveness on long term idle acounts, but it varies by state. She couldn't speculate on it in California, and with a deed involved. In her practice, debt forgiveness usually is about medical bills. This is why she counsels clients to NOT EVER just send $5 a month on a large medical bill. It just keeps the bill active.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I doubt seriously that your premise is likely. Any surplus the HOA might have collected in rent would be eaten up by late charges and fees associated with collection. It IS indeed going to be interesting if he returns with info on how this finally works out.

To be honest, 27,000 over 30 years of MF's, seems reasonable to some, but when you look at the current MF's which look to be $886 and check redweek and see it renting for $250 a night....even if they only rented the 3 day weekends and the late charges and fee were 25%(High end)...thats only $357.50 a year he'd owe...or $10,725 over 30 years

I'd demand a copy of the rental records...there is no way he owes $27,000, unless there was also a mortgage

 

[buzglyd]

I doubt seriously that your premise is likely. Any surplus the HOA might have collected in rent would be eaten up by late charges and fees associated with collection. It IS indeed going to be interesting if he returns with info on how this finally works out.

As I asked my bankruptcy atty DW about this guy's situation, and she informs me that there is debt forgiveness on long term idle acounts, but it varies by state. She couldn't speculate on it in California, and with a deed involved. In her practice, debt forgiveness usually is about medical bills. This is why she counsels clients to NOT EVER just send $5 a month on a large medical bill. It just keeps the bill active.

I don't think there's any way a debtor would want to pay for all that discovery.

The guy's name is on the deed.
The Association has CC&Rs and a written billing policy most likely.
HOAs bill their annual assessments like clockwork every year.

Also, it won't be "removed" from his credit. The credit reporting agencies only allow that in case of mistakes. It will show as settled or "paid collection agency" which is accurate.

I'm with you. Other people had to pay more all these years because he didn't.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I'm with you. Other people had to pay more all these years because he didn't.

That's a silly argument....

You know buzgyld, because you don't buy milk the stores aren't able to sell at a high enough quantity to lower prices!! We are all paying more because you don't drink milk!

Or

You know buzgyld, when you don't pay for expensive landscaping or install a deck on the back of your house, it lowers the value of all the houses around yours! How dare you not pay thousands of dollars for those things so others can enjoy the fruits of your labor!

Every action we make effects everyone else, to act like this one is different then others is a silly argument that doesn't deserve any merit.

 

[buzglyd]

That's a silly argument....

You know buzgyld, because you don't buy milk the stores aren't able to sell at a high enough quantity to lower prices!! We are all paying more because you don't drink milk!

Or

You know buzgyld, when you don't pay for expensive landscaping or install a deck on the back of your house, it lowers the value of all the houses around yours! How dare you not pay thousands of dollars for those things so others can enjoy the fruits of your labor!

Every action we make effects everyone else, to act like this one is different then others is a silly argument that doesn't deserve any merit.

You clearly don't know how HOAs operate. They have an operating budget to run and maintain the resort and provide for reserves. Each owner is responsible for his share.

When a certain percentage of owners don't pay, the operating expenses don't go down. The other owners have to pay more.

Theh O in HOA stands for Owner.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Au Contraire, Mon Frère.

That's a silly argument....

You know buzgyld, because you don't buy milk the stores aren't able to sell at a high enough quantity to lower prices!! We are all paying more because you don't drink milk!

Hogwash !

Balderdash !

No one has an obligation to buy milk or order landscaping.

By contrast, when someone consents to become deeded owner of a timeshare, that person thereby takes on the obligations as well as the privileges of ownership. That means paying what's owed when it's due. Defaulting on that obligation unfairly jacks up the fees all the non-deadbeats have to pay.

Sheesh.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Patri]

This is why she counsels clients to NOT EVER just send $5 a month on a large medical bill. It just keeps the bill active.

And you are ok with that? The medical field can get stiffed?

 

[buzglyd]

And you are ok with that? The medical field can get stiffed?

We certainly live in a different world don't we?

I pay my Dr and my HOA bills.

 

[Ridewithme38]

And you are ok with that? The medical field can get stiffed?

You know, when that happens, the bill go up for all of us! How dare they not pay for their obligation!

 

[weegie57]

Hey Vegas, I think you have provided some of the best advice so far. I'm trying to get into a Fannie mae foreclosure program, and they require a 720 credit score or better. The lender advised me to get this timeshare debt resolved and pay down my revolving debt (which I have done). Obviously, I'd like to get out of the time share as cheaply as possible.

 

[Passepartout]

And you are ok with that? The medical field can get stiffed?

I don't have to be OK with it or not. It's the law and in the bankruptcy code. Just for the sake of argument, let's say this is an elderly person whose sole income is SSI. $650 a month. They have Medicaid, but say they have cancer, or a heart attack or stroke. Medicaid pays what they pay and the provider goes after our client. They have nothing, and no prospects of ever having anything except their pride. So outof pride they pay $5 a month on this, say $90,000 bill. They will never pay it off because the interest is piling on waaaay faster than they can pay it down. So continuing to pay on itis senseless. File a Chapter 7, wipe out the debt and move on.

Until and unless we get a single payer health plan this is how it is with our poor and elderly. Am I OK with it? Not by a long shot, but it isn't up to me to change, or I would.

When I'm Emperor, things will be different!

 

[e.bram]

In many cases there exists a conflict of interest between the BOD members and what is best for the resort. ie. If the BOD members are also the trustees in a trust controlled point system and pay themselves for their function in the point trust as well as encouraging owners to convert to points in such a trust, this is a conflict of interest. Not paying MFs is a legitimate form of protest as much as not paying the tea tax.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I don't have to be OK with it or not. It's the law and in the bankruptcy code. Just for the sake of argument, let's say this is an elderly person whose sole income is SSI. $650 a month. They have a savings, but say they have wyndham, or a starwood or marriott. they pay what they can out of their savings and the timeshare company goes after them. They have nothing, and no prospects of ever having anything except their pride. So out of pride they pay $5 a month on this, say $90,000 bill. They will never pay it off because the interest is piling on waaaay faster than they can pay it down. So continuing to pay on it is senseless. File a Chapter 7, wipe out the debt and move on.

Until and unless we get a deedback plan this is how it is with our poor and elderly. Am I OK with it? Not by a long shot, but it isn't up to me to change, or I would.

When I'm Emperor, things will be different!

I feel the same way about maintenance fees!

 

[bogey21]

I feel the same way about maintenance fees!

I agree.

Stiff the doctor or hospital and the rest of us pay via higher costs.

Stiff the Resort and the remaining owners make up the difference.

I don't see a difference.

George

 

[Ridewithme38]

I agree.

Stiff the doctor or hospital and the rest of us pay via higher costs.

Stiff the Resort and the remaining owners make up the difference.

I don't see a difference.

George

Stiff the credit card companies all of our bills go up

Stiff the government all our taxes go up

Stiff the bartender all our drink costs go up

Stiff the waitress all our food costs go up

The problem is, if you stiff any payment it effects everyone, yet some will happily walk away from their cable bill or other bills yet preach loudly that the mf's must be paid until we die

 

[buzglyd]

In many cases there exists a conflict of interest between the BOD members and what is best for the resort. ie. If the BOD members are also the trustees in a trust controlled point system and pay themselves for their function in the point trust as well as encouraging owners to convert to points in such a trust, this is a conflict of interest. Not paying MFs is a legitimate form of protest as much as not paying the tea tax.

Oh brother.

This is an old resort managed by VRI.

The Monopoly Man developer left a long time ago.

He had plenty of time to deal with this ans didn't until now. Oddly enough while hoping for a taxpayer subsidized loan rewrite.

 

[RX8]

Stiff the credit card companies all of our bills go up

Stiff the government all our taxes go up

Stiff the bartender all our drink costs go up

Stiff the waitress all our food costs go up

The problem is, if you stiff any payment it effects everyone, yet some will happily walk away from their cable bill or other bills yet preach loudly that the mf's must be paid until we die

I don't think anyone is saying you need to pay MF until you die. Everyone can make their own choices, including signing up for the timeshare obligation and deciding to "stiff" anyone they want. However, if you decide to stiff someone just don't be shocked if there are repercussions to your choices.

In the OP's case, he "stiffed" the resort and ignored it for 25 years. He was apparently hoping it would go away instead of dealing with it and now it has come back to bite him. I feel for the OP's situation, however, not nearly as much as someone who is in the same position through no fault of their own such as lost job, death of spouse, etc... The OP gambled by not paying the MF and now he has the repercussion.

 

[Ridewithme38]

In the OP's case, he "stiffed" the resort and ignored it for 25 years. He was apparently hoping it would go away instead of dealing with it and now it has come back to bite him. I feel for the OP's situation, however, not nearly as much as someone who is in the same position through no fault of their own such as lost job, death of spouse, etc... The OP gambled by not paying the MF and now he has the repercussion.

These types of gambles are very very common in the business world, Trump has 'stiffed' many many banks and bills in his lifetime, to be successful, you have to know when to walk away from a bad investment. While it sucks to have to do it, I don't really understand people acting personally offended by it. It's just common business sense guys.

There are ways to deal with situations like this, personally, since it IS a very popular resort with high 'rack rates' i'd demand the resort reimburse me every penny they made in rentals for MY OWNED week, or they forgive the debt and accept a deedback. I'd back them into a wall, if they didn't have every penny accounted for exactly as I request, I'd bill them for the full 'rack rate' ($250 a night) $1,750 a week for 30 years or $52,500 minus 25% for vacancies, so i'd bill them $39,375 and demand payment within 30 days. I MIGHT let them deduct that $27,000 from that, but that would be something they would have to fight for and if they did, it goes back up to $52,500.

You see, because of the timeshare contracts we sign, when WE don't pay the BOD is now responsible for renting our weeks for us. Sure they're allowed to take a commission, but in a lot of states, rental commissions are capped, so they really can't take that much and late fees are a joke, as soon as his week is rented, the MF is paid so there are no more late fees.

 

[Passepartout]

There are ways to deal with situations like this, personally, since it IS a very popular resort with high 'rack rates' i'd demand the resort reimburse me every penny they made in rentals for MY OWNED week, or they forgive the debt and accept a deedback. I'd back them into a wall, if they didn't have every penny accounted for exactly as I request, I'd bill them for the full 'rack rate' ($250 a night) $1,750 a week for 30 years or $52,500 minus 25% for vacancies, so i'd bill them $39,375 and demand payment within 30 days. I MIGHT let them deduct that $27,000 from that, but that would be something they would have to fight for and if they did, it goes back up to $52,500.

You, sir, are delusional if you expect this would fly. Of course, you can sue anyone for anything, and frivolously bill for payment that is not in your contract. That is your business, and while you're at it pile up some healthy NY and California attorney fees too. I would expect any court to throw such a tit-for-tat suit out the door before it sees the light of day. But that is only my opinion. Let me know how it works out for you, counselor.

 

[Ridewithme38]

You, sir, are delusional if you expect this would fly. Of course, you can sue anyone for anything, and frivolously bill for payment that is not in your contract. That is your business, and while you're at it pile up some healthy NY and California attorney fees too. I would expect any court to throw such a tit-for-tat suit out the door before it sees the light of day. But that is only my opinion. Let me know how it works out for you, counselor.

It's a basic counter-suit, very common....The fact is the BOD DOES owe him that money, considering a rental value of atleast $1,750-$2,000, with an average MF of $750, I don't know the laws in California about rental commission, but a 25% commission is high(10% is average) and only $437.00 with at most 12 month late fees...I'd total the late fee and commission around another $600, thats $1,350

That means, the BOD OWES HIM at least $12,000, but i'd demand the full $52,500 unless they can prove how much the MF's, commission and late fees were and bring ALL the documentation that shows they mailed him that information(good luck, i know how unorganized these BOD's are) . Heck, if they sent him even one bill that didn't deduct the rental income, i'd go to war.

Don't forget, the BOD is responsible for renting his week for him if he doesn't pay, there are MANY responsibilities that come with being a rental agent. They will HAVE to prove that they lived up to every one of them.

OK, i'll admit, this is extreme, but it is a possible way to go....They do owe him money and he CAN use that as leverage

 

[e.bram]

Is that an Idaho(boonies) opinion?