Cost of ancillary probate (summary administration) in florida

[sciguy82]

Hello,

My mother in law passed away this year in NJ and appointed me the executor for her estate. Although most of her property/assets are in NJ, she had a single deeded time-share in Osceola County (deed value is just over $9,000) in Florida that I need to deal with. My wife and her sister are 50/50 beneficiaries and they are in agreement that my wife will disclaim and her sister will take over the timeshare.

I've been contacting lawyers in Florida but the fees they are requesting seem to be astronomically high. The first two lawyers I've spoken to have asked for retainers of 4,000 and 5,000 respectively and outlined time tables of 3-6 months. I was told this was their "cheaper" rate for summary administration. Searching through this board I'm seeing that ancillary probates should be closer to 1500-3000 but the posts seem a bit older. Have legal fees increased that dramatically for some reason and my expectations are just out of line with reality? Or am I just having some really bad luck with sheisty lawyers?

I have a few more introductory calls with probate firms next week but wanted to get some opinions from people who have actually been thru the process down there. If permitted by the board, and anyone can recommend a reasonable ancillary probate lawyer down, there I'm all ears.

Thanks for your time!

 

[Ski-Dad]

It may be cheaper to abandon this timeshare and have your sister-inlaw purchase another at resale. The estate is required to pay all debts before distribution of the assets. Current year maintenance fees are debts and should be paid to close the estate. You are not obligated to incur additional expenses to dispose of an unwanted asset.

If you can you advise which timeshare property this is, others on the forum will advise whether it has any value.. There would be few, if any, timeshares in the greater Orlando area valued at $9000 on the resale market. You can easily buy a 2 bedroom Marriott for $1500-2000 for peak season week and less for a Sheraton.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Unless this is a Disney Vacation Club Timeshare there is no way it is worth $9.000 or anywhere near $9,000.

 

[sciguy82]

Nope. Nothing that nice. It's a 2 bedroom at Grand Lake in Kissimmee.

I tried to convince my sister in law to let it go but she is adamant she wants it.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Nope. Nothing that nice. It's a 2 bedroom at Grand Lake in Kissimmee.

I tried to convince my sister in law to let it go but she is adamant she wants it.

It’s not worth $9,000, $900, or $9. The last one of these to sell on eBay sold for $1.30 with a $200 cash back incentive to the purchaser. It is worth, at most, negative $198.70. Given closing costs, it’s likely worth a lot less than that. Spending money to probate this in FL is crazy. This is a liability, not an asset. The money she will spend in maintenance fees every year can get her a much nicer accommodation in Orlando.

Here’s the eBay link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296710341778?_skw=grand+lake+resort&itmmeta=01JB7TTDGC7Q7SCXZ6NKT6Q4DD&hash=item4515508492:g:gM0AAOSw4OlmO-QP&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKkidfqLkaE7dFw8omwmaaZ9eMFXKotaqW/8FrKGY6XQ3D1UDMp4RRUf/SfOmN2sg7vpwLij4YiQ2YGOD7Sq6v32akYi/WqYu3QgLvYL1xuh+7tpnkcMZE42sZgZD5x6p+NLjxou6L1icxNpAjZljDhKjYqz957Nt1e/qk/u44gzRymrgPPdkJ6GH--2nYnpi5/VRh2rgj42wXPNelSe5vk62c3D7TCuKI9m4nT4sRvJo4DFbAGefEQrDkuOtoNzhni6fR65DAkivIRDiYAVCIuLdH/hwBEmCyC3V/NFiNUYcA==|tkp:Bk9SR6LY6frZZA

If your SIL really wants to own a timeshare in the Orlando area, she can pick up a much much much nicer one on the resale market for a literal fraction of the probate cost with lower annual dues in any number of the major resort systems including Marriott, Wyndham, Vistana, Hilton Grand Vacations Club, etc.

 

[davidvel]

Hello,

My mother in law passed away this year in NJ and appointed me the executor for her estate. Although most of her property/assets are in NJ, she had a single deeded time-share in Osceola County (deed value is just over $9,000) in Florida that I need to deal with. My wife and her sister are 50/50 beneficiaries and they are in agreement that my wife will disclaim and her sister will take over the timeshare.

I've been contacting lawyers in Florida but the fees they are requesting seem to be astronomically high. The first two lawyers I've spoken to have asked for retainers of 4,000 and 5,000 respectively and outlined time tables of 3-6 months. I was told this was their "cheaper" rate for summary administration. Searching through this board I'm seeing that ancillary probates should be closer to 1500-3000 but the posts seem a bit older. Have legal fees increased that dramatically for some reason and my expectations are just out of line with reality? Or am I just having some really bad luck with sheisty lawyers?

I have a few more introductory calls with probate firms next week but wanted to get some opinions from people who have actually been thru the process down there. If permitted by the board, and anyone can recommend a reasonable ancillary probate lawyer down, there I'm all ears.

Thanks for your time!

What assets does the estate (outside of a trust) have?

 

[TUGBrian]

this certainly falls into the category of throwing good money after bad!

 

[Ski-Dad]

@sciguy82 Look at the # of posts from the people who are providing feedback. These are timeshare junkies. They know what they are talking about.

People are paying money to get rid of these units. They are a liability. Show your sister in-law this thread. Have her search eBay. Cut it loose.

 

[LeslieDet]

It may be cheaper to abandon this timeshare and have your sister-inlaw purchase another at resale. The estate is required to pay all debts before distribution of the assets. Current year maintenance fees are debts and should be paid to close the estate. You are not obligated to incur additional expenses to dispose of an unwanted asset.

If you can you advise which timeshare property this is, others on the forum will advise whether it has any value.. There would be few, if any, timeshares in the greater Orlando area valued at $9000 on the resale market. You can easily buy a 2 bedroom Marriott for $1500-2000 for peak season week and less for a Sheraton.

The fiduciary duties that apply to an executor's obligations to dispose of all assets of the estate disagree with that advice. There are no laws that I have ever seen in any jurisdiction that allows an executor to commit perjury and represent to a court that all assets are disposed of, and thus the remaining assets of the estate (including any cash) can be disbursed to the heirs while at the same time knowingly not taking care of the cost to properly and legally transfer ownership from the estate to the beneficiary.

 

[LeslieDet]

Nope. Nothing that nice. It's a 2 bedroom at Grand Lake in Kissimmee.

I tried to convince my sister in law to let it go but she is adamant she wants it.

Keep in mind that a retainer doesn't necessarily mean the final cost. Lawyer fees have definitely increased. I do not know if FL has a minimum percentage fee based upon an estate value or if you can find a lawyer to do it on an hourly rate. Check out martindale.com for geographical and practice area referrals. It should be a straightforward ancillary probate. One heir that desires ownership; and you are the executor are obligated to properly dispose or transfer of all assets of your deceased mother-in-law's estate. You really don't have any option to secretly abandon the ownership and then report to the NJ court that you did everything you were required to do. The estate remains obligated to pay the maintenance fees while the probate is pending. Once the title is legally transferred to the sister-in-law, then you can close the estate.

 

[rapmarks]

Probate in Florida is for estates over $75000

 

[5finny]

This is AI from GOOGLE
I would not trust it to be reliable
I would, however ask your estate attorney about whether it opens any options and is valid

AI Overview
Learn more…Opens in new tab

In New Jersey, "abandoning a burdensome asset in an estate" means that an executor of a will can legally relinquish an asset from the estate if it is considered to be more trouble or costly to manage than its actual value, essentially giving up ownership of the asset and not attempting to sell it, which requires a court order after proper notice to all beneficiaries and interested parties, as per the state's probate laws; this is typically done when the asset is deemed to have little to no value and would incur significant costs to liquidate or maintain.


Key points about abandoning an asset in a New Jersey estate:

• Burdensome definition:
  An asset is considered "burdensome" when the costs of selling, maintaining, or managing it outweigh its potential value to the estate.
  
  
  
• Executor's responsibility:
  The executor of the estate is responsible for determining if an asset should be abandoned and must seek court approval to do so.
  
  
  
• Notice and hearing:
  Before abandoning an asset, the executor must provide proper notice to all beneficiaries and interested parties, and a court hearing may be necessary to finalize the decision.
  
  
  
• Examples of burdensome assets:
  • Real estate with significant repair costs exceeding its market value
    
    
    
  • Vehicles in poor condition with high repair costs
    
    
    
  • Property with environmental liabilities

Important considerations:

• Fiduciary duty:
  Even when abandoning an asset, the executor still has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the estate and beneficiaries.
  
  
  
• Legal advice:
  Consult with an experienced estate attorney in New Jersey before abandoning any asset in an estate to ensure compliance with legal requirements and avoid problems
• Examples of burdensome assets:

• Real estate with significant repair costs exceeding its market value
  
  
  
• Vehicles in poor condition with high repair costs
  
  
  
• Property with environmental liabilities

Generative AI is experimental. For legal advice, consult a professional.

​

 

[LeslieDet]

Probate in Florida is for estates over $75000

Probate is the only way for real property deeds to be conveyed to heirs. If there was no real estate, or if the timeshare was owned by a revocable living trust, then probate can be avoided. The $$ you are referencing does not apply when there is real property owned by the decedent.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The fiduciary duties that apply to an executor's obligations to dispose of all assets of the estate disagree with that advice. There are no laws that I have ever seen in any jurisdiction that allows an executor to commit perjury and represent to a court that all assets are disposed of, and thus the remaining assets of the estate (including any cash) can be disbursed to the heirs while at the same time knowingly not taking care of the cost to properly and legally transfer ownership from the estate to the beneficiary.

There are also no laws that I am aware of that require an executor to open ancillary probate to attempt to deed back a worthless asset to a timeshare developer when all possible heirs have disclaimed. The only obligation of the executor is to settle the debts of the estate. They can do that by paying the maintenance fees. The executor does not have to commit perjury to truthfully detail the above to the probate court. In fact, the executor is likely breaching their fiduciary duty to the estate if they burn thousands of dollars to attempt to deed back a timeshare to an HOA.

 

[LeslieDet]

There are also no laws that I am aware of that require an executor to open ancillary probate to attempt to deed back a worthless asset to a timeshare developer when all possible heirs have disclaimed. The only obligation of the executor is to settle the debts of the estate. They can do that by paying the maintenance fees. The executor does not have to commit perjury to truthfully detail the above to the probate court. In fact, the executor is likely breaching their fiduciary duty to the estate if they burn thousands of dollars to attempt to deed back a timeshare to an HOA.

An executor cannot dispose of real property located in a different jurisdiction than where the decedent resided without an ancillary probate. The executor is charged with the obligation to administer the estate and deal with all assets. An executor cannot simply abandon real property. Now, there may very well be steps the executor can take to seek and receive court approval to do so, but guess what? That also costs money. It cannot happen in secret. The facts of the matter are important. You cannot make such statements in a vacuum. I am encouraging anyone working as an executor to comply with all laws that apply to that probate, whether in an ancillary jurisdiction or in the original probate proceeding. And, in this specific instance, there is an heir who absolutely desires to own said real property interest.

 

[LeslieDet]

@sciguy82 Look at the # of posts from the people who are providing feedback. These are timeshare junkies. They know what they are talking about.

People are paying money to get rid of these units. They are a liability. Show your sister in-law this thread. Have her search eBay. Cut it loose.

Perhaps in Canada the laws surrounding how an estate is to be administered differ than how it works in the USA. No executor has any authority to simply "cut it loose". Any abandonment can only be done with court approval. And, timeshare "junkies" are not necessarily familiar with how the law actually works. Sure, many junkies know how to maximize their use of their timeshares and II. But that is an entirely different ballgame than legal proceedings.

 

[callwill]

This discussion is motivating me to stop paying my maintenance fees and offer deed in lieu of foreclosure asap.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Perhaps in Canada the laws surrounding how an estate is to be administered differ than how it works in the USA. No executor has any authority to simply "cut it loose". Any abandonment can only be done with court approval. And, timeshare "junkies" are not necessarily familiar with how the law actually works. Sure, many junkies know how to maximize their use of their timeshares and II. But that is an entirely different ballgame than legal proceedings.

We’ve been down this road before. And as a timeshare junkie who is also an attorney who is familiar with this area of the law the OP should absolutely be speaking with their estate attorney about the process for abandoning this. You tend to post in a way that makes it seem much more complicated than it is in most states (and neither of us can speak for the process in every state), with a strong bias towards burning thousands of dollars of estate capital to probate a worthless asset. Again, there is just no obligation on the part of an executor to do anything other than pay the debts of the estate before distributing the assets. No court anywhere has held there is an obligation to burn thousands of dollars to open an ancillary probate to dispose of a worthless asset. And yes, you’re right, one of the heirs “wants” this asset, however very knowledgeable people in this thread are explaining to the OP that he should be talking that heir out of it.

 

[LeslieDet]

We’ve been down this road before. And as a timeshare junkie who is also an attorney who is familiar with this area of the law the OP should absolutely be speaking with their estate attorney about the process for abandoning this. You tend to post in a way that makes it seem much more complicated than it is in most states (and neither of us can speak for the process in every state), with a strong bias towards burning thousands of dollars of estate capital to probate a worthless asset. Again, there is just no obligation on the part of an executor to do anything other than pay the debts of the estate before distributing the assets. No court anywhere has held there is an obligation to burn thousands of dollars to open an ancillary probate to dispose of a worthless asset. And yes, you’re right, one of the heirs “wants” this asset, however very knowledgeable people in this thread are explaining to the OP that he should be talking that heir out of it.

“Thousands of dollars “? We are not talking about spending $100k here. Even if it was $5k (which is doubtful) that’s not “burning thousands of dollars” for goodness sake. No executor can make that decision without seeking court permission. That also costs money.

If the sister wants the asset, who are you to tell her it’s worthless? No one knows the value of the estate. So to simply conclude that seeking to abandon is the only way to proceed is extremely presumptuous.

My point is that the OP has fiduciary duties in his capacity as executor. He cannot simply ignore that asset. And telling him to just “cut it loose” (which is the comment I was responding to) is incredibly irresponsible because even you admit that “there is a process for abandoning an asset”. Every state has laws relating to that legal process. It doesn’t include just walking away without doing anything at all and hiding your inaction from the probate court.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

If the sister wants the asset, who are you to tell her it’s worthless?

Objective reality tells us it is worthless.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

hiding your inaction from the probate court.

Nobody is suggesting this.

 

[callwill]

Everyone should add their TS HOA to the will as the beneficiary for the TS.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

We are re-doing out trust next year, and I own multiple TS's in Florida, should I state in my TS who those should go to or if they should be sold or given away?

 

[LeslieDet]

Everyone should add their TS HOA to the will as the beneficiary for the TS.

That won’t work. But even if the HOA would be an heir, that still requires an ancillary probate! Meanwhile, trusts continue to avoid probate.

 

[LeslieDet]

Nobody is suggesting this.

I would hope not!

But you’re not being rational. There is a cost to obtain probate court approval to abandon an asset. And there’s a cost to complete an ancillary probate. In this case, the heir desires the property. If it were to cost $4K for an ancillary probate vs $1500 to obtain court approval to abandon, and then the sister goes out and buys a week that can’t even be enrolled, that’s ridiculous.

The mindset that the timeshare should always be abandoned in an estate is so misleading, especially when pushed by “timeshare junkies”. And come on, “thousands of dollars”? That’s fear mongering. .