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Coronavirus price gouging

chapjim

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I’ve got news for you, the government still controls the supply, distribution, and to a great extent, the cost of alcoholic beverages.


Harry

That's not news. It's not prohibition, either.
 

chapjim

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Yes I was assuming we were discussing hypotheticals as I believe a lot of the constitution allows the government to step in for the communal good. I would guess our only differences is on where that line is in the hypothetical middle ground. Pure capitalism as well as pure socialism cannot and does not exist for very good reasons.

It's always fun to shoot down hypotheticals.
 

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That's not news. It's not prohibition, either.

No, but is is government deciding it knows better than the supplier and consumer. And you know, it works pretty well.


Harry
 

chapjim

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No, but is is government deciding it knows better than the supplier and consumer. And you know, it works pretty well.


Harry

The only thing the (federal) government decides is the level of taxation. State and local governments are all over the place and rarely know why.
 

chapjim

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The only thing the (federal) government decides is the level of taxation. State and local governments are all over the place and rarely know why.

If it is local government with their ABC liquor stores, I live in Virginia, which has ABC stores. Washington, DC has a liquor store on every corner and two or three in the middle of the block. Check out the parking lot at Calvert-Woodley. Mostly VA plates.

How much revenue does VA lose because it is sticking to ABC stores? I don't know but this is another example of a government setting prices and creating a sort of black market -- in this case, the liquor stores in Washington, DC.
 

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The only thing the (federal) government decides is the level of taxation. State and local governments are all over the place and rarely know why.

Oh, so it’s ok if state government steps in but not federal government. You didn’t make that clear in your initial post on the topic. I thought you wanted complete free enterprise with only the marketplace setting the price. I didn’t know it was ok with you if some government entities stepped in but not others.


Harry
 

chapjim

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Oh, so it’s ok if state government steps in but not federal government. You didn’t make that clear in your initial post on the topic. I thought you wanted complete free enterprise with only the marketplace setting the price. I didn’t know it was ok with you if some government entities stepped in but not others.


Harry

And I don't know what I said that would make you think that. It's not okay from a free market perspective.
 

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I know people love to hate government and that’s fine. It’s everybody’s prerogative. But, yes, without it, there is chaos and violence. I’m not a fan of either. I love having rules,laws, a constitution, that most of us can respect and do our best to uphold. It means we’re on the same team and help each other when times get tough. Times are getting tough! We are our government and it’s time for all of us to step up and do what we can. Allowing some price gouging because we love the free enterprise system is asinine and destructive to our well-being. Fortunately, we have empowered our government officials to arrest those who engage in it. I’m done. You can continue your anti-government rant if you wish.


Harry
 

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And I don't know what I said that would make you think that. It's not okay from a free market perspective.

Posts #17 and 19 in this thread is what made me think that.


Harry
 
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pedro47

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Today I went to a small independent local pharmacy store near me to purchase
some Tylenol 325mg tablets.

The cash register price was $6.99 but the price on the box was $5.09.

I pay the sticker price of $5.09. LOL:hi::clap::(

Lesson learned check the price on the box and look at the store receipt before leaving the store .:LOL::banana:
 
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CanuckTravlr

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Who decides what is "excessive?" I believe the answer should be the consumer, rather than some bureaucrat.

Lots of economic terms and theories being bandied about on this thread. If you go back to Economics 101, an efficient market is dependent upon both buyers and sellers having choices.

In an efficient market in normal times, when one or the other gets out of whack the market usually will re-balance it, given sufficient time and assuming both demand and supply are relatively elastic. It doesn't work if either is inelastic or where the market becomes extremely distorted in the short term in a national (as opposed to regional, let alone international) emergency, such as we are currently facing. That is when the government usually steps in as it has done many times in the past on both sides of the border.

The article in the OP was referring to an action by the Ontario provincial government in response to demands BY CONSUMERS. They were the ones complaining to the government to do something, because a small group of vendors were trying to take advantage of a national health emergency with respect to goods desperately needed that were in extremely short supply.

Both Canada and the USA have stepped in many times in the past when the free market got out of wack, either through concentrated market manipulation, or in time of war or other emergency, when the normal free market becomes artificially distorted. Penalizing price gouging or excessive profits is not the same as regulated price controls. They are two different mechanisms, even though on the surface they appear to be somewhat similar.
 
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CanuckTravlr

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Old joke that I heard told by a Canadian (Canada's original name was CND) when I was working in Ottawa. No offense intended. Maybe it was too old of a joke.

No offence taken. I just didn't get what you were referring to, or what the point (or in this case joke) was.

I think your memory reference to CND may be a bit blurred by the ravages of time! It's OK, it's a common problem that I am susceptible to as well!!

There are a number of short-term references to things related to Canada. The most common today are "CAD" (the official ISO international designation for the Canadian dollar), comparable to "USD" (for the US dollar). The other most common is "CAN" (usually used as a short-term reference to Canada in places like international sports competitions), comparable to USA instead of United States of America. Then of course there is also the ".ca" instead of ".com" for websites and email addresses.

I have never seen "CND". I suspect you may have been thinking of the designation"CDN", which is the older three-letter symbol for "Canada" or "Canadian" when travelling internationally.

It was originally assigned under the Geneva and Vienna Road Conventions as the designation for Canada. It has mostly been supplanted today by the "CAN" form, but it still technically applies when driving a car with Canadian licence plates in other countries outside North America. Unlike European plates, North American plates are issued by each province or state. When driving your vehicle outside the country of origin you should (and in some countries must) have a national identifier sticker near the rear plate, unless it is part of the plate. Most modern European plates have the one-, two- or three-letter country identifier imprinted right on the plate itself. Outside of North America a Canadian vehicle should display a CDN sticker near the rear plate, a US vehicle should display a USA sticker and a Mexican vehicle should display a MEX sticker.


Aren't you glad you asked?? :giggle:
 
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dioxide45

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Look at Ebay and you can certainly see that price gouging laws are creating a "black market". $20 for a 6 pack of Kirkland TP, that would work out to $100 for something that costs $17 in the store. Do people pay those prices? Based on completed listings, it seems like at least some people do. Right now there is no incentive to really rush more TP to the market because Costco can still only sell it for $17. No incentive for manufacturers to ramp up production by paying overtime or adding an additional line because they can still only sell it for $17. The surge in demand is only short lived, so it doesn't make sense to invest when you can't pay off that short term investment.

The guy in the Stossel video I watched who bought 19 generators in his home state, rented a UHaul and drove them to a hurricane ravaged area couldn't help the people that needed those generators. Local authorities stepped in, said he was price gouging and impounded the generators. So no one got any generators. In the end, if it is simply a supply and demand issue, the market should be allowed to play out and let the consumers decide the value of a good or service. If someone doesn't want to pay $30 for hand sanitizer, they don't have to. Of course, this can be said with what is happening with that Costco TP on Ebay.
 

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Look at Ebay and you can certainly see that price gouging laws are creating a "black market". $20 for a 6 pack of Kirkland TP, that would work out to $100 for something that costs $17 in the store. Do people pay those prices? Based on completed listings, it seems like at least some people do. Right now there is no incentive to really rush more TP to the market because Costco can still only sell it for $17. No incentive for manufacturers to ramp up production by paying overtime or adding an additional line because they can still only sell it for $17. The surge in demand is only short lived, so it doesn't make sense to invest when you can't pay off that short term investment.

The guy in the Stossel video I watched who bought 19 generators in his home state, rented a UHaul and drove them to a hurricane ravaged area couldn't help the people that needed those generators. Local authorities stepped in, said he was price gouging and impounded the generators. So no one got any generators. In the end, if it is simply a supply and demand issue, the market should be allowed to play out and let the consumers decide the value of a good or service. If someone doesn't want to pay $30 for hand sanitizer, they don't have to. Of course, this can be said with what is happening with that Costco TP on Ebay.
Masks and ventilators isn’t simply a supply and demand issue. It is a life and death issue. Do you still let the market decide?
 

dioxide45

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Masks and ventilators isn’t simply a supply and demand issue. It is a life and death issue. Do you still let the market decide?
Perhaps. When it comes to ventilators, sometimes entire factories have to be converted. One can't just switch over an entire production line for free. There are hard costs to procure parts and manufacture product in weeks that would probably take months to produce the same amount. In the end, demand for both are high and supply is low. There certainly are a lot of companies stepping up to fill in the supply side of things for both these products, so that should help keep prices more in line.
 
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Perhaps. When it comes to ventilators, sometimes entire factories have to be converted. One can't just switch over an entire production line for free. There are hard costs to procure parts and manufacture product in weeks that would probably take months to produce the same amount. In the end, demand for both are high and supply is low. There certainly are a lot of companies stepping up to fill in the supply side of things for both these products, so that should help keep prices more in line.

I’ll put human life above the free market every time so we’ll just have to disagree.


Harry
 

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Perhaps. When it comes to ventilators, sometimes entire factories have to be converted. One can't just switch over an entire production line for free. There are hard costs to procure parts and manufacture product in weeks that would probably take months to produce the same amount. In the end, demand for both are high and supply is low. There certainly are a lot of companies stepping up to fill in the supply side of things for both these products, so that should help keep prices more in line.

This is the free market at work during a crisis. Do you honestly think this is the best way for our economy to function?



Harry
 

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The cost of health care will be going up in Maryland after hospitals have been given permission to temporarily raise rates all patents are charged to help pay for emergency care related to COVID-19.

Hospitals have not been getting the revenue that’s normally generated from patients who have other hospital care because of the coronavirus pandemic



How many think Maryland will be the only one?
 
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