Contract Transfer Debacle

[basilray]

My wife and I were looking to take over a Wyndham Contract:

Floating week at Grand Palms converted to CWP at 238k pts annually. I have the estoppel from Wyndham. This was a contract we found on TUG.

The intermediary handled the drafting of paperwork and collection of fees from us. It seemed like a straight-forward transaction. Paperwork was sent to Wyndham on May 23.

We had heard nothing from Wyndham, until a few weeks ago I received a letter from Grand Palms about how I wanted to use my space for 2026 and pay for maintenance. This seemed odd, so I contacted the resort. Per the resort, the deed was transferred to me (my wife's name does not appear on the letter from Grand Palms). I asked if this was still in process w/ Wyndham and she said that as far as she was aware, the deed was transferred to me and everything was done. I attempted to call Wyndham, and the most I could get from them was that the transfer was rejected on Aug 20, and needed to be initiated by the resort.

The resort says that when a week is converted, and then transferred to a new owner, it reverts to the original week/terms. When I said nothing of that nature is in the estoppel from Wyndham, the resort indicated that Wyndham shouldn't have been able to generate an estoppel and it needed to have come from the resort. Wyndham says once they get the paperwork from the resort they will transfer the contract...so basically both sides are saying there's nothing for them to do.

Meanwhile, I'm here potentially on the hook for a deeded week at Grand Palms I never wanted.

Anyone had similar happen and have positive outcomes or advice to share on how to sort this out?

 

[Sandi Bo]

Hmmmn.. I have a resale converted week to points (different resort). It stayed as points for me. The situation I am aware of when contracts revert to the original week is when the maintenance is past due - maybe something got messed up with that. Hopefully someone with knowlege on a Grand Palms contract specifically has some knowledge? Good luck!

 

[bnoble]

I'm 90% sure the resort is incorrect. The conversion contracts for all of my converted weeks states that the conversion carries with the sale of the underlying property. The rresort cannot undo that, becuase it is the owner of the week that pledges the use of that week to Club Wyndham, not the resort. It is very (very) unlikely that Wyndham wrote a completely different set of terms for this resort, though I suppose it is possible. Does your seller have a copy of the conversion contract?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Specifically, Grand Palms, when transferring a converted RCI Points accounts from one person to another, the RCI Points definitely don't transfer. Wyndham points, I'd think would transfer.

Grand Palms transfer department handled my transfers directly, I didn't go through Wyndham. I would contact Kathleen Pinga at Grand Palms, who is in charge of the transfers at the resort.

Grand Palms is a VERY GOOD resort to own in weeks because it's worth quite a bit of TPU's for locking off that 3 bedroom into two units for the deposits, when you choose a week 25-30 for deposit, is worth 62 TPU's. That makes for a great trader, fees are under $1,100. Not many resorts can boast such high trading power.

 

[basilray]

Specifically, Grand Palms, when transferring a converted RCI Points accounts from one person to another, the RCI Points definitely don't transfer. Wyndham points, I'd think would transfer.

Grand Palms transfer department handled my transfers directly, I didn't go through Wyndham. I would contact Kathleen Pinga at Grand Palms, who is in charge of the transfers at the resort.

Grand Palms is a VERY GOOD resort to own in weeks because it's worth quite a bit of TPU's for locking off that 3 bedroom into two units for the deposits, when you choose a week 25-30 for deposit, is worth 62 TPU's. That makes for a great trader, fees are under $1,100. Not many resorts can boast such high trading power.

I've spoken with Kathy a couple of times, including yesterday. While she's very friendly, according to her, as far as Grand Palms is concerned there is nothing for them to do/account for on the Wyndham side and I own a floating week for a 3BR Presidential. She was also confused how Wyndham issued an estoppel, since she said it needed to come from her. It really seems like something has gone wrong here.

Kathy processed the transfer to me back in late September. She couldn't track back to where the request came from. But the "What are you going to do with your room and how would you like to pay your fees?" letter is what I received and prompted me to start making calls.

As it stands right now, Wyndham says they can't do anything because I don't own a contract and the transfer needs to come from the resort. The resort (Kathy) says the process the transfer of the original deed and nothing more. I'm really stuck.

I went back to Liberty who handled the paperwork and started getting fairly forceful in trying to get them to help straighten this out as the intermediary...but I suspect they will continue to prove unhelpful.

 

[basilray]

I'm 90% sure the resort is incorrect. The conversion contracts for all of my converted weeks states that the conversion carries with the sale of the underlying property. The rresort cannot undo that, becuase it is the owner of the week that pledges the use of that week to Club Wyndham, not the resort. It is very (very) unlikely that Wyndham wrote a completely different set of terms for this resort, though I suppose it is possible. Does your seller have a copy of the conversion contract?

This is an interesting angle. I have not had any direct contact with the original owners. This was handled through Liberty as the intermediary.

If nothing is done, I would assume it's very possible Wyndham tries to bill the original (and still current) contract owner for maintenance while Grand Palms is trying to bill me for the maintenance on the deeded week that was to have been converted.

 

[bnoble]

But as @Sandi Bo points out, if for some reason the monthly fees were not paid during the transfer, the conversion can be withdrawn, also per terms of the conversion contract.

 

[basilray]

The intermediary, Liberty Consultations, suggests they filed the paperwork and the transfer is complete, they are washing their hands. They told me anything from here is up to the resort.

This has quickly turned into a nightmare. Open to any and all suggestions.

 

[paxsarah]

The intermediary, Liberty Consultations, suggests they filed the paperwork and the transfer is complete, they are washing their hands. They told me anything from here is up to the resort.

It seems that they didn't fulfill their job if:

I attempted to call Wyndham, and the most I could get from them was that the transfer was rejected on Aug 20

If a transfer was rejected by Wyndham (I assume corporate, and not the resort) it seems like this is where the situation fell apart and it was up to the transfer company to follow up. I've had a couple of purchases where resale deeds had typos that were recorded by the county but rejected by Wyndham, and the company I was working with diligently corrected the deeds, rerecorded them, and resubmitted them to Wyndham until the transfer was completed.

My concern would be that the initial rejection in August may have caused the maintenance fees to fall behind and that may have contributed to dropping the week out of its points conversion - totally a guess. And add me to the list of people who have purchased converted fixed weeks twice (not Grand Palms though) and had them transfer to me as converted fixed weeks in points with no issues - and I don't think the resort was involved in the transfer at all, just Club Wyndham corporate. It's not standard practice to drop a converted fixed week out of Club Wyndham points when it's transferred to a new owner, and I don't know what would make Grand Palms different.

 

[basilray]

That's an interesting angle. I can try calling Wyndham and seeing if they will tell me if maintenance hit a past due mark. I believe it was paid through EOY, but I could be wrong.

Regarding the cancellation, Wyndham suggested the transfer needed to be initiated by the resort...despite what the provided estoppel letter indicates. This could be a regional/state oddity, but both Grand Palms and Wyndham said that Grand Palms isn't directly a Club Wyndham property, so the transfer needed to come to Wyndham from Grand Palms...not the other way around. Between Liberty Consultations as the middle-man, Wyndham, and Grand Palms...it's unclear how the transfer paperwork was provided to Grand Plams after the late August rejection by Wyndham.

I can follow up with Kathy again, but despite how helpful she tried to be, she indicated her hands were tied and "this is just how it works".

My attempts to escalate with Liberty have been fruitless. They keep saying they did the work and it's now my problem. From where I'm sitting, it's someone's problem...and it shouldn't be mine.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

That's an interesting angle. I can try calling Wyndham and seeing if they will tell me if maintenance hit a past due mark. I believe it was paid through EOY, but I could be wrong.

Regarding the cancellation, Wyndham suggested the transfer needed to be initiated by the resort...despite what the provided estoppel letter indicates. This could be a regional/state oddity, but both Grand Palms and Wyndham said that Grand Palms isn't directly a Club Wyndham property, so the transfer needed to come to Wyndham from Grand Palms...not the other way around. Between Liberty Consultations as the middle-man, Wyndham, and Grand Palms...it's unclear how the transfer paperwork was provided to Grand Plams after the late August rejection by Wyndham.

I can follow up with Kathy again, but despite how helpful she tried to be, she indicated her hands were tied and "this is just how it works".

My attempts to escalate with Liberty have been fruitless. They keep saying they did the work and it's now my problem. From where I'm sitting, it's someone's problem...and it shouldn't be mine.

File a complaint with the Atty. General's Office in the State that Liberty is located.

The State may make further inquiries to them or bury them with so much wasted paperwork that Liberty will gracefully call you back and make things right! At least let's hope.














.

 

[basilray]

I contacted Wyndham again, who gave me new information. They have some internal documentation around how certain resorts not directly operated by them are to process transfers. According to their notes, the transfer is to be initiated with Grand Palms and a fee paid to the resort, after which the resort is to inform Wyndham of the change. This is different than what Kathy at Grand Palms has indicated.

My conversations with Liberty have devolved pretty quickly. Their "operations manager" claims they have fulfilled their obligation, despite the fact the actual contract which was to be transferred to us still reading with the original owners. I finally started pressing on their "money back guarantee" and suggested if they were not interested in helping straighten things out, I would contact the original owners. While that seems to have spurred some action with them, it still feels very fruitless. The operations manager threatened to stop responding to me if I continued to copy the owner of Liberty on all my messages, which tells me pretty clearly they are really no better than any of the timeshare developers themselves.

Sounds like I'll need to call Kathy at Grand Palms and see if there's someone else on her side that I can try and work through.

 

[basilray]

A month later, still no resolution.

Wyndham says the resort must complete some sort of paperwork, the resort says there is nothing to submit, and the middle-man gets our hopes up enough to think there will be some movement and nothing goes anywhere.

I'm now receiving billing statements from Grand Palms for maintenance, with a rapidly approaching due date.

ETA: I've once again spoken with Wyndham who says "Call the resort". I called Grand Palms again, and it was suggested I speak with a Shannon who handles deeds. Waiting for a callback. Liberty Consultations (who loves to brag about all their years of experience) insists they have done their part and I'm largely on my own to find it.

My current fear is that I'm going to end up eating $1k to get out of this mess and deedback to Grand Palms

 

[rickandcindy23]

What week number is on the deed? If it's weeks 20-38, and it's a 3 bedroom Grand Palms Presidential unit, it's valuable. I just sold one for $2,000. You should keep it as the deeded week. I know that sounds simplistic but 1) the resort rents well, 2) the trading power is outstanding, 3) and the resort is pretty well maintained, though not on the ocean and more of a legacy resort. The pool is beautiful.

 

[basilray]

What week number is on the deed? If it's weeks 20-38, and it's a 3 bedroom Grand Palms Presidential unit, it's valuable. I just sold one for $2,000. You should keep it as the deeded week. I know that sounds simplistic but 1) the resort rents well, 2) the trading power is outstanding, 3) and the resort is pretty well maintained, though not on the ocean and more of a legacy resort. The pool is beautiful.

The statements I've received do not say, but from an initial conversation (might have been with Kathy, I forget):

1 week, 3BR Presidential and can book May - Sept. Room number shows as 236C134A if that means anything?

I may PM you with some questions, if that would be OK?

Today I spoke w/ Shannon @ Grand Palms who handles deeds. She said that they gave Wyndham notice of the transfer previously. She also said that as far as they are concerned, points are not something they deal with and are stated as not transferrable on their end as they are not directly Wyndham. Shannon said she would re-send the transfer notice to the general address they use with Wyndham. She also said that she is aware of at least one similar situation where a couple ended up getting the 3rd party who handled paperwork to cover the deedback cost. I'm hoping once she submits whatever transfer notice back to Wyndham, I can get them to nudge something along.

 

[rickandcindy23]

236C134A

Unit 236C1 Week 34, which is a 3 bedroom presidential lockoff unit. You can reserve any week between weeks 20-38. Weeks 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 are very high points in RCI weeks. The small hotel side is worth 27 points, the 2 bedroom side is worth 35 points. I just checked again. 62 points in weeks. Pretty good.

 

[basilray]

It's possible I may have a near-term conclusion to this one.

I called Wyndham again earlier in the week, and spoke w/ owner resolutions. They said there was a new notation on file regarding the transfer from the resort, but that I needed to talk to title/ownership to get it processed before they could do anything further for me on the owner resolution side. I made that call, and they said they still needed a copy of the deed transferred to me.

The resort sent that over quickly, and I have supplied it to Wyndham. I'll be calling to follow-up in hopes I can get them to expedite.

Of course, everyone has said I'll need to pay the transfer fee, but Wyndham already collected that up front when they rejected the initial transfer submission.

Fingers crossed!