[CONTENT REMOVED FROM ORIGINAL THREAD PLACED HERE] Legal debate thread for the ongoing Wyndham resort closure actions...

[schreff]

Sorry wrong topic.

 

[CO skier]

It remains to be seen what will occur after Wyndham notifies all affected owners that resorts they own and/or have 2026 reservations at will be closed by the end of January 2025. The good thing is that owners will then have a choice and not until the choice is made will we know how significant the loss of supply of available units will be.

It is likely the majority of owners affected by the closures will bail out of Wyndham rather than continue through the CWA swap. For many it is a serendipitous, easy exit; others will exit because their favorite resort(s) are no longer available through Wyndham, so why stay?

What happens when all those 2026 summer reservations at non-affected resorts booked with 2026 points from the owners at closed resorts are cancelled? More supply(!) versus the demand from owners remaining through the CWA swap. The owners accepting the swap will, presumably, just have the points swapped within their account and retain the reservations previously booked with 2026 point at the closing resorts. Zero increased demand there. Anyone want a summer 2026 reservation at Bonnet Creek?

 

[Jan M.]

It remains to be seen what will occur after Wyndham notifies all affected owners that resorts they own and/or have 2026 reservations at will be closed by the end of January 2025. The good thing is that owners will then have a choice and not until the choice is made will we know how significant the loss of supply of available units will be.

There's been a lot of discussion about the supply and demand. I can safely predict in the coming months that we'll see a lot of posts from owners saying they had no problem finding what they wanted. Many of those owners experiences I would probably consider barely partially relevant to entirely irrelevant.

We've stayed in Newport, RI for 17 nights in 2022 and 22 nights in 2023 in fall leaf season. On one fall trip we broke up the drive with a couple nights at Shawnee Village. We weren't there long enough to really experience the resort but it sure beat driving straight through from Williamsburg like we'd done the year before. Speaking of Williamsburg. We had a several week stay over last Christmas and New Year's there. Our son and his family joined us. In the spring we were there for 39 nights. We stayed in Branson for 27 nights, including Memorial Day weekend, in the spring of 2023 and 6 weeks in the fall of 2024, including Thanksgiving week. We have family in Tennessee and have had numerous stays there at all of the 4 Tennessee resorts. Some of the family especially like Fairfield Glade. We stayed at Smoky Mountains for several weeks over Easter. Our son and his family had their own unit for their spring break week. Our niece who lives in Tennessee and her granddaughter, who is close in age to our oldest granddaughter, also joined us. We like the lagoon view units in the Sea Palms section of Ocean Ridge resort in Edisto, SC. This spring we stayed in that section 16 nights and a few years ago stayed in that section for 4 weeks. We actually like Star Island and have stayed there numerous times. Sometimes even when I had the option of something also being available at Bonnet Creek.

Now if someone like me, not it lol, were to track the resorts in those areas to see if we could get what have been our typical stays, that would actually be quite relevant. However not still not relevant for probably the majority of owners who don't and/or can't travel like we do. We're retired, quite willing to be flexible about where and when we go, and travel a lot. Starting in 2018, 180 something nights to 230 something nights in the timeshares each year with 2.5-3.5 month long spring and fall trips and stays in between them.

So far we don't have a total on the number of units at the resorts and sections leaving our system. Anyone have a SWAG? Less than1k, 1k-2k, more than 2k? Yes, we'll be losing owners but proportionate to the number of units, how does that look? Another thing to consider, Wyndham's main business is selling; so how long will it take to replace however many owners are leaving? A year, two years?

We're seeing a number of comments about how those resorts/sections weren't fully occupied anyhow. What I think those commenting aren't taking fully into account is that those resorts would have had peak times/seasons they had much higher occupancy numbers. The people who stayed at those resorts during those times will be looking at where else they can go at those high demand times. Of course there's going to be a greater demand on the supply!

Yes, we'll be getting the Sports Illustrated resorts but their point charts will be considerably higher than the resorts we're losing. Wyndham wouldn't be where they are in the business world if they didn't make multifaceted plans. It's no coincidence that many owners will be needing more points to be able to have stays they'll want. That's a driving part of a good business plan for a successful company.

 

[comicbookman]

There's been a lot of discussion about the supply and demand. I can safely predict in the coming months that we'll see a lot of posts from owners saying they had no problem finding what they wanted. Many of those owners experiences I would probably consider barely partially relevant to entirely irrelevant.

We've stayed in Newport, RI for 17 nights in 2022 and 22 nights in 2023 in fall leaf season. On one fall trip we broke up the drive with a couple nights at Shawnee Village. We weren't there long enough to really experience the resort but it sure beat driving straight through from Williamsburg like we'd done the year before. Speaking of Williamsburg. We had a several week stay over last Christmas and New Year's there. Our son and his family joined us. In the spring we were there for 39 nights. We stayed in Branson for 27 nights, including Memorial Day weekend, in the spring of 2023 and 6 weeks in the fall of 2024, including Thanksgiving week. We have family in Tennessee and have had numerous stays there at all of the 4 Tennessee resorts. Some of the family especially like Fairfield Glade. We stayed at Smoky Mountains for several weeks over Easter. Our son and his family had their own unit for their spring break week. Our niece who lives in Tennessee and her granddaughter, who is close in age to our oldest granddaughter, also joined us. We like the lagoon view units in the Sea Palms section of Ocean Ridge resort in Edisto, SC. This spring we stayed in that section 16 nights and a few years ago stayed in that section for 4 weeks. We actually like Star Island and have stayed there numerous times. Sometimes even when I had the option of something also being available at Bonnet Creek.

Now if someone like me, not it lol, were to track the resorts in those areas to see if we could get what have been our typical stays, that would actually be quite relevant. However not still not relevant for probably the majority of owners who don't and/or can't travel like we do. We're retired, quite willing to be flexible about where and when we go, and travel a lot. Starting in 2018, 180 something nights to 230 something nights in the timeshares each year with 2.5-3.5 month long spring and fall trips and stays in between them.

So far we don't have a total on the number of units at the resorts and sections leaving our system. Anyone have a SWAG? Less than1k, 1k-2k, more than 2k? Yes, we'll be losing owners but proportionate to the number of units, how does that look? Another thing to consider, Wyndham's main business is selling; so how long will it take to replace however many owners are leaving? A year, two years?

We're seeing a number of comments about how those resorts/sections weren't fully occupied anyhow. What I think those commenting aren't taking fully into account is that those resorts would have had peak times/seasons they had much higher occupancy numbers. The people who stayed at those resorts during those times will be looking at where else they can go at those high demand times. Of course there's going to be a greater demand on the supply!

Yes, we'll be getting the Sports Illustrated resorts but their point charts will be considerably higher than the resorts we're losing. Wyndham wouldn't be where they are in the business world if they didn't make multifaceted plans. It's no coincidence that many owners will be needing more points to be able to have stays they'll want. That's a driving part of a good business plan for a successful company.

There will of course be more demand, the question which none of us can answer is will it be significant. only time will tell and I don't think we can come up with any metrics that fit all.

 

[CO skier]

We're seeing a number of comments about how those resorts/sections weren't fully occupied anyhow. What I think those commenting aren't taking fully into account is that those resorts would have had peak times/seasons they had much higher occupancy numbers. The people who stayed at those resorts during those times will be looking at where else they can go at those high demand times. Of course there's going to be a greater demand on the supply!

Does anyone remember the "predictions" about Y2K -- sooo believable in 1999 and what a joke that turned out to be after January 1, 2000?

I have this feeling of deja vu.

​

 

[CO skier]

There will of course be more demand,

Whatever "demand" there might be will only come from the minority of owners at closing resorts who accept the CWA swap. How will this be any different from the "demand" created by CWA sales over the last 10 years? How many CWA owners book more than 10 months in advance when it makes any difference?

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill ... good grief.

But creating a sense of panic, false and unthinking as it may be, sells on social media.

 

[pedro47]

I can see the New Bern, NC resort becoming a 55 years & older residental community because of its location on the Neuse River (Inter Coastal Waterway ) (Maine to Florida) ; with an upgrade golfing complex in the next five years.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Mods shut down the Wyndham steals points and cash thread. The OP of that thread was wrong anyway. Just sayin'.

 

[dioxide45]

Mods shut down the Wyndham steals points and cash thread. The OP of that thread was wrong anyway. Just sayin'.

They were correct in the slightest sliver of the sense of the context in which they were posting. The OP in that thread just didn't have it in them to answer or respond to any other questions. They just can't admit that Wyndham steals cash and points.

 

[paxsarah]

I'll give many of them the benefit of the doubt because I know they probably have the OP on ignore and simply aren't seeing this thread.

From that thread, this describes me, by the way

 

[schreff]

How sweet it is. We are clearly Legacy VIP Owners and we bought most of our timeshares 30 plus years ago on a theory told us by Fairfield Sales Piranhas that timeshares were going to be able to be deeded to our children and their children, that timeshares would increase in value, that Fairfield would buy them back at least the cost that you paid, that maintenance fees would not increase dramatically, that you were getting such a great deal the offer was only good for one day, and so many other lies that I forgot them all.

Next, the POINT SYSTEM came along and the golden benefit sold was to buy points and visit all the many resorts with many more resorts to come and to become a VIP now. Sounded great so we did. We converted Patriot's Place, Fairfield Bay, Fairfield Harbour, and Ocean Ridge (Sea Oaks), Now, Legacy VIP Owners are considered to have Bubonic Plague and should be eliminated at all costs. This certainly isn't morally right and perhaps considering all the LIES OF WYNDHAM SALES and the knowledge by Fairfield/Wyndham/TNL that these lies were an okay sales techniques someone will find this illegal. (Many will say that I am wrong. I know for a fact it is true along that CORPORATE OFFICERS/MANAGEMENT had and have full and complete knowledge of the sales complaints occurring throughout this time period]......

Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

Time to investigate all other options besides the two losing options that not only us but also many other dedicated Legacy Owners are being forced to swallow. PERHAPS IT IS TIME FOR AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF THE BIG LONG TERM PICTURE OF THE WRONGS OF WYNDHAM SALES.

It is my feelings that if ultimately Fairfield,Wyndham,TNL are not found to be legally wrong in all or some of their actions/inactions than the BODs of the HOAs are clearly guilty of breach of fiduciary duties by not fully funding the reserves so that the word legacy means longevity. And remember who controls the HOAs now and most likely in the past, FAIRFIELD, WYNDHAM, TNL.

 

[comicbookman]

How sweet it is. We are clearly Legacy VIP Owners and we bought most of our timeshares 30 plus years ago on a theory told us by Fairfield Sales Piranhas that timeshares were going to be able to be deeded to our children and their children, that timeshares would increase in value, that Fairfield would buy them back at least the cost that you paid, that maintenance fees would not increase dramatically, that you were getting such a great deal the offer was only good for one day, and so many other lies that I forgot them all.

Next, the POINT SYSTEM came along and the golden benefit sold was to buy points and visit all the many resorts with many more resorts to come and to become a VIP now. Sounded great so we did. We converted Patriot's Place, Fairfield Bay, Fairfield Harbour, and Ocean Ridge (Sea Oaks), Now, Legacy VIP Owners are considered to have Bubonic Plague and should be eliminated at all costs. This certainly isn't morally right and perhaps considering all the LIES OF WYNDHAM SALES and the knowledge by Fairfield/Wyndham/TNL that these lies were an okay sales techniques someone will find this illegal. (No matter who says I am wrong, I know for a fact it is true along with the fact that CORPORATE OFFICERS/MANAGEMENT had and have full and complete knowledge of this]......

Wyndham has taken our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we take the CWA offer, is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must make a decision to again pay for something. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

Time to investigate all other options besides the two losing options that not only us but also many other dedicated Legacy Owners are being forced to swallow. PERHAPS IT IS TIME FOR AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF THE BIG LONG TERM PICTURE OF THE WRONGS OF WYNDHAM SALES.

It is my feelings that if ultimately Fairfield,Wyndham,TNL are not found to be legally wrong in all or some of their actions/inactions than the BODs of the HOAs are clearly guilty of breach of fiduciary duties by not fully funding the reserves so that the word legacy means longevity. And remember who controls the HOAs now and most likely in the past, FAIRFIELD, WYNDHAM, TNL.

Wyndham sales is a travesty. No argument. Curious though how do you figure you need to pay to keep your founders level due to the resort closings? The swap is free and does not affect your status as it is point for point. Are you referring to an increase in maintenance fees maybe? The long term funding is a function of keeping maintenance fees down and avoiding special assessments. I believe the HOA would have no trouble making the argument that is what owners wanted. Also Wyndham has not had control for very long. At most of the resorts they started taking on defaulted deeds about 10 years ago. When they took a deed they then paid ongoing maintenance fees just like any other owner. This bailed out most of the HOA's and postponed the closing of these resorts. They did not gain control for many years, so your long term conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

 

[schreff]

Wyndham sales is a travesty. No argument. Curious though how do you figure you need to pay to keep your founders level due to the resort closings? The swap is free and does not affect your status as it is point for point. Are you referring to an increase in maintenance fees maybe? The long term funding is a function of keeping maintenance fees down and avoiding special assessments. I believe the HOA would have no trouble making the argument that is what owners wanted. Also Wyndham has not had control for very long. At most of the resorts they started taking on defaulted deeds about 10 years ago. When they took a deed they then paid ongoing maintenance fees just like any other owner. This bailed out most of the HOA's and postponed the closing of these resorts. They did not gain control for many years, so your long term conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

No conspiracy theory in my post. It is so strange that an easy way to not only avoid a valid debate but to hide the truth from the owners is to state CONSPIRACY THEORY. I corrected the nebulous part about paying again even though the maintenance fees would most likely be higher.
Why not address all the important parts of my long post? Here's one.

Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

 

[Arimaas]

No conspiracy theory in my post. It is so strange that an easy way to not only avoid a valid debate but to hide the truth from the owners is to state CONSPIRACY THEORY. I corrected the nebulous part about paying again even though the maintenance fees would most likely be higher.
Why not address all the important parts of my long post? Here's one.

Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

I don't see your post as a conspiracy theory, but I see it as someone, who spent a lot of money for something, from a company (and industry) that routinely lies to customers, to get them to pay thousands of dollars for something they could generally get for free (VIP benefits aside), and who is rightfully angry at the situation.

I've spent a lot (much much too much) time debating the folks here on this message board with my legal theories and if there is a valid cause of action against Wyndham. My answer (this is not legal advice) is yes, there is likely several valid breech of contract claims against Wyndham. I don't like using the term "is it legal?". For me, is it legal means someone broke a law and can go to jail or be sanctioned by the government. Not breeching a contract (although obviously there is contract law). So, to answer your question, from my perspective (again, not legal advice), I think you could likely show a breech of contract claim here (although I have to admit, I have not read through any of the contractual language of any of this), but will an attorney take your case? Likely not on contingency because your damages are really minimal, in the grand scheme of things. You'd have to band together with two dozen others in your situation and convince a class action attorney to take your case on contingency. I don't think that's an easy battle.

And here's my conspiracy theory - Wyndham knows this. If Wyndham's lawyers didn't flag this as possibly opening them up to liability, then Wyndham needs to hire new general counsel and special counsel. They know this, and are assuming that no one is going to bother suing, because, once the emotions settle, it's just not worth it.

Just my 2¢ (if we are still allowed to have opinions here).

 

[HitchHiker71]

No conspiracy theory in my post. It is so strange that an easy way to not only avoid a valid debate but to hide the truth from the owners is to state CONSPIRACY THEORY. I corrected the nebulous part about paying again even though the maintenance fees would most likely be higher.
Why not address all the important parts of my long post? Here's one.

Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

Most of the MFs at Wyndham Shawnee for legacy weeks are higher than CWA. What are your current MFs? How specifically did Wyndham take away your VIPF?

Wyndham is actually providing a path forward for impacted owners to preserve their VIP levels via a free CWA swap, which unlike in times past, when resorts exited the system, has never before been offered. Most owners stuck in this very same situation, had no such offer. While it may not be ideal for all impacted owners for various legitimate reasons, at least there's a legitimate offer for this larger resort exit project. Ask any of the Silverleaf timeshare owners if they have any such offer for example. As far as legalities go, I'm sure this will all be baked out as this whole process ensues. As I learned long ago, change is the only constant in this life. Those who practice resistance to change are often on the wrong side of history, for better or for worse. While it's nice to think that any large timeshare company's resort portfolio is never going to change, that's really not realistic long term (again, change is the only constant). The governing trusts clearly indicate that Wyndham can remove a resort from the Club pretty much at their discretion, so the legalese will likely favor the HOAs and Wyndham were anyone to challenge either of them in court, as I'm sure Wyndham's general counsel and K&L Gates representing the HOAs already have their ducks in a row with this in mind.

 

[schreff]

Most of the MFs at Wyndham Shawnee for legacy weeks are higher than CWA. What are your current MFs? How specifically did Wyndham take away your VIPF?

Wyndham is actually providing a path forward for impacted owners to preserve their VIP levels via a free CWA swap, which unlike in times past, when resorts exited the system, has never before been offered. Most owners stuck in this very same situation, had no such offer. While it may not be ideal for all impacted owners for various legitimate reasons, at least there's a legitimate offer for this larger resort exit project. Ask any of the Silverleaf timeshare owners if they have any such offer for example. As far as legalities go, I'm sure this will all be baked out as this whole process ensues. As I learned long ago, change is the only constant in this life. Those who practice resistance to change are often on the wrong side of history, for better or for worse. While it's nice to think that any large timeshare company's resort portfolio is never going to change, that's really not realistic long term (again, change is the only constant). The governing trusts clearly indicate that Wyndham can remove a resort from the Club pretty much at their discretion, so the legalese will likely favor the HOAs and Wyndham were anyone to challenge either of them in court, as I'm sure Wyndham's general counsel and K&L Gates representing the HOAs already have their ducks in a row with this in mind.

We don't own and I never said that we owned at Shawnee? I stated, " We converted Patriot's Place, Fairfield Bay, Fairfield Harbour, and Ocean Ridge (Sea Oaks) ". The conversion of the fixed weeks cost us over $ 20,000.00 which unless we take the CWA offer will go " down the drain ". We do stay at Shawnee as it is only 90 miles from our home. Please read the post for complete information.

You further asked how we lost Founder's VIP. We lost the points when part of Fairfield Plantation Villa Rica went bankrupt and was sold; however, at that time there was no offer from Wyndham to exchange for CWA points. There wasn't even a communication from Wyndham simply took the points away and lowered us to VIP Platinum. You also asked what are main fees are now but we own quite a few contracts and this would only confuse you. Of course, we will wait until someone from Wyndham contacts us to do the math but again my post explains specifically why we most likely will not consider the offer as stated, " Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren".

Hope this fully addresses the reasons why we are handcuffed by the choices given by Wyndham. This and the fact that when Wyndham notifies us of the cancellation of the pending reservations we have at Shawnee, Bentley Brook, and Skyline Tower there will be less availability and no reasonably close resorts for my family to consider.

 

[schreff]

I don't see your post as a conspiracy theory, but I see it as someone, who spent a lot of money for something, from a company (and industry) that routinely lies to customers, to get them to pay thousands of dollars for something they could generally get for free (VIP benefits aside), and who is rightfully angry at the situation.

I've spent a lot (much much too much) time debating the folks here on this message board with my legal theories and if there is a valid cause of action against Wyndham. My answer (this is not legal advice) is yes, there is likely several valid breech of contract claims against Wyndham. I don't like using the term "is it legal?". For me, is it legal means someone broke a law and can go to jail or be sanctioned by the government. Not breeching a contract (although obviously there is contract law). So, to answer your question, from my perspective (again, not legal advice), I think you could likely show a breech of contract claim here (although I have to admit, I have not read through any of the contractual language of any of this), but will an attorney take your case? Likely not on contingency because your damages are really minimal, in the grand scheme of things. You'd have to band together with two dozen others in your situation and convince a class action attorney to take your case on contingency. I don't think that's an easy battle.

And here's my conspiracy theory - Wyndham knows this. If Wyndham's lawyers didn't flag this as possibly opening them up to liability, then Wyndham needs to hire new general counsel and special counsel. They know this, and are assuming that no one is going to bother suing, because, once the emotions settle, it's just not worth it.

Just my 2¢ (if we are still allowed to have opinions here).

If there is a conspiracy, it is quite clear who the conspirators are and it isn't anyone within TUG or anyone that posts here. IMHO it could be Fairfield, Wyndham, TNL along with the known help of their sales staff. I am not an attorney so my opinions mean little.

I do remember instructing my staff about conflicts of interest and even the appearance of conflicts. With Wyndham having total control of the HOA BODs, management of most of the resorts, owning RCI, and sales of timeshares, both resales and developer contracts, it sure has a heck of an appearance in my non legal view. Sometimes, though not legally, the appearance is as important as the actual conflict and this doesn't even touch of breach.

 

[HitchHiker71]

We don't own and I never said that we owned at Shawnee? I stated, " We converted Patriot's Place, Fairfield Bay, Fairfield Harbour, and Ocean Ridge (Sea Oaks) ". The conversion of the fixed weeks cost us over $ 20,000.00. We do stay at Shawnee as it is only 90 miles from our home. Please read the post for complete information.

You further asked how we lost Founder's VIP. We lost the points when part of Fairfield Plantation Villa Rica went bankrupt and was sold; however, at that time there was no offer from Wyndham to exchange for CWA points. There wasn't even a communication from Wyndham simply took the points away and lowered us to VIP Platinum. You also asked what are main fees are now but we own quite a few contracts and this would only confuse you. Of course, we will wait until someone from Wyndham contacts us to do the math but again my post explains specifically why we most likely will not consider the offer as stated, " Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren".

Hope this fully addresses the reasons why we are handcuffed by the choices given by Wyndham. This and the fact that when Wyndham notifies us of the cancellation of the pending reservations we have at Shawnee, Bentley Brook, and Skyline Tower there will be less availability and no reasonably close resorts for my family to consider.

So then what is your proposed solution to your problem, and to broaden the issue, to the problem in general, beyond what Wyndham has already put forth? Please be specific. It's easy to complain on any internet forum, so let's try to be constructive and offer up proposed solutions. It's interesting to see that you yourself experienced previously a resort bankruptcy on an individualized basis, and didn't receive any option to keep your VIP level intact during that HOA action, but it seems as if, at the same time, you're now complaining about Wyndham actually offering up a legitimate solution to that very same problem this time around. Isn't this option Wyndham is offering a good thing with that in mind? Seems like a have your cake and eat it too type situation on some level at least to me.

With respect to the VIP program itself, it is subject to change entirely at Wyndham's discretion, up to and including termination of the entire program itself. Would Wyndham ever do something like this? Unlikely, but it's right there in the T&Cs for anyone to read - and you signed legal documents along with all of the rest of us to this effect whether you realized it or not. Would this impact any legal decision? Maybe, IDK. I'd really like to hear proposed solutions here such that we can bring them back to Wyndham for consideration if deemed reasonable.

 

[comicbookman]

If there is a conspiracy, it is quite clear who the conspirators are and it isn't anyone within TUG or anyone that posts here. IMHO it could be Fairfield, Wyndham, TNL along with the known help of their sales staff. I am not an attorney so my opinions mean little.

I do remember instructing my staff about conflicts of interest and even the appearance of conflicts. With Wyndham having total control of the HOA BODs, management of most of the resorts, owning RCI, and sales of timeshares, both resales and developer contracts, it sure has a heck of an appearance in my non legal view. Sometimes, though not legally, the appearance is as important as the actual conflict and this doesn't even touch of breach.

Given the ownership structure, it is impossible to avoid the appearance of a conflict here. So the next test is an actual conflict. So far there has been no evidence of a conflict, so your point is mute unless you can point to something specific that shows Wyndham is getting a benefit denied other owners as for sales, those people should mostly just be locked up, but that is not really relevant to these actions.

 

[chapjim]

No conspiracy theory in my post. It is so strange that an easy way to not only avoid a valid debate but to hide the truth from the owners is to state CONSPIRACY THEORY. I corrected the nebulous part about paying again even though the maintenance fees would most likely be higher.
Why not address all the important parts of my long post? Here's one.

Wyndham has taken away our FOUNDERS VIP already and will move us to Bronze unless we agree to the CWA offer. Is this legal? To retain our VIP status that we paid over $ 20,000.00 for, we must again make a decision to agree to something different than what we originally paid for. Something that we will have a difficult time using because of the geographic location of the closed resorts and something that is unattractive for our working children and grandchildren.

Yes, it's legal. It may be "ointment or suppositories" for you, but it's legal.

 

[paxsarah]

You also asked what are main fees are now but we own quite a few contracts and this would only confuse you.

I hope you didn’t intend this as condescendingly as it came across. I own five different contracts, including UDI, fixed week, and biennial, and I have no doubt that if I wanted to explain their maintenance fees in detail to Hitchhiker, he would fully understand. I can also easily cite my overall maintenance fee rate in $ per 1,000 points for my ownership as a whole, which is really all that would be necessary to determine if your maintenance fees would be likely to go up or down with a swap to CWA, at least for an initial ballpark figure.

 

[allyson.g.crawford]

I spot checked the following resorts and they are still bookable past 12/31/25, so... no

Fairfield Glade
Fairfield Mountains (Lake Lure)
Patriots Place
Bentley Brook

Orlando International appears blocked out after 12/17/2025, coincidence or not.

Something I have not said to this point is, I have a reservation at one of the affected resorts later in 2026 that I made well before this news broke, and as of this moment have not cancelled it yet, in case these dates slipped. No notification from Wyndham to people who have bookings in 2026 at at least some of the resorts in question.

That, is why I keep pushing this, even though I don't own at any of the affected resorts, I have some "skin in the game" so to speak.

Most likely Bentley Brook is still showing because final vote not being taken until 30th October ...

My question would be what have they spent reserve funds on over the past 5 years .. and what is the expected value per 100K points??

 

[schreff]

So then what is your proposed solution to your problem, and to broaden the issue, to the problem in general, beyond what Wyndham has already put forth? Please be specific. It's easy to complain on any internet forum, so let's try to be constructive and offer up proposed solutions. It's interesting to see that you yourself experienced previously a resort bankruptcy on an individualized basis, and didn't receive any option to keep your VIP level intact during that HOA action, but it seems as if, at the same time, you're now complaining about Wyndham actually offering up a legitimate solution to that very same problem this time around. Isn't this option Wyndham is offering a good thing with that in mind? Seems like a have your cake and eat it too type situation on some level at least to me.

With respect to the VIP program itself, it is subject to change entirely at Wyndham's discretion, up to and including termination of the entire program itself. Would Wyndham ever do something like this? Unlikely, but it's right there in the T&Cs for anyone to read - and you signed legal documents along with all of the rest of us to this effect whether you realized it or not. Would this impact any legal decision? Maybe, IDK. I'd really like to hear proposed solutions here such that we can bring them back to Wyndham for consideration if deemed reasonable.

I appreciate the offer to mediate but it appears that I am in hostile territory here, so thank you but no thanks. At present, I have no solution and due to the fact that I have received nothing from Wyndham/TNL it is premature for me to speculate. You have a greater knowledge than me about the inner sanctum of Wyndham/TNL. I have had numerous dealings with Wyndham in the past and will negotiate with them either personally or through an attorney.

I am disappointed that many have posted but not addressed any specifics to the most important parts of my post. Thank you and have a good day.

 

[schreff]

Given the ownership structure, it is impossible to avoid the appearance of a conflict here. So the next test is an actual conflict. So far there has been no evidence of a conflict, so your point is mute unless you can point to something specific that shows Wyndham is getting a benefit denied other owners as for sales, those people should mostly just be locked up, but that is not really relevant to these actions.

mute (sic), I guess that what you would like me to do but I guess you mean moot. And I certainly would not agree with my point being moot when at present the hand hasn't even been dealt yet. We do agree that Wyndham sales (who in some ways could be said to be part of the entire contract especially if Wyndham/TNL had knowledge or devised their unscrupulous sales tactics) " should mostly just be locked up. Sorry but this is relevant to their big picture actions.

 

[schreff]

Yes, it's legal. It may be "ointment or suppositories" for you, but it's legal.

Thanks for the legal advice.