Therefore, it can't happen and this thread is all for naught.
Outside of the votes, most everything here was and still is speculation anyway. So far, what I've seen seems to point to the they can't use Chapter 11 to collapse a state real estate regulated timeshare/condo regime. I suspect as was mentioned above, there will be further votes to take care of that. Until that is completed, they can't sell the properties free and clear.
Federal bankruptcy law overrules many state laws. It's entire purpose is to shortcut laws. I wouldn't be so sure without a case or ruling to point to, that it doesn't overrule state timeshare laws
The question remains, can chapter 11 erase or eliminate a deed or the timeshare regime? I don't think it can. It can force a sale, but the HOA nor the developer actually own the individual deeds. Deeded owners do. Personal bankruptcy could force me to sell my deed. Based on everything I've read on this, federal bankruptcy can't collapse the timeshare regime. Bankruptcy could push the sale of the property, but the deeds would still be in tact. They don't simply go away. If they want a free and clear sale, they need to somehow deal with the individual deeds or go through the process as outlined in the condominium declarations. I may see if I can get some outside opinions on how they think Wyndham or the Law Firm is planning to approach this.
What do you base your assertions on? You say everything you have read, but provide no authority or even scholarly articles. Deeds don't usually slow down bankruptcy. The HOA represents the owners, so unless a deeded owner tries to assert an individual right as a creditor, individuals don't need to be dealt with. The deed is like a secure loan contract. It gives the owners a higher priority to the proceeds of a sale. Corporations are also subject to state laws of the state they are incorporated in, but bankruptcy law over rules most states regulations.deeded owners would be just another class of creditor, with more rights than some classes and less than others.
Aren't we all making some assertions though without authority or scholars articles? You stated "Federal bankruptcy law overrules many state laws. It's entire purpose is to shortcut laws." without providing sources of how this applies to state real estate statutory requirements.
So, nothing you have sited, other than unsupported assertions, contradicts what I said. The argument is circular because that is how you have argued. Given the high stakes and the fact that the bankruptcy plan is being used at multiple resorts, I expect Wyndham lawyers know what they are doing.
Wow! I'm sorry that my questions are annoying you. I never thought there was something wrong with asking questions. I guess I was wrong and should be shunned. It is well within your right to not respond, which you also did wasted oxygen on too. Isn't asking questions the point of the thread and the forums? The problem, I've learned, is that no one really knows the answers and most people are just making up answers off the top of their head. Some might say I am doing the same, which could be true. As noted previously, it is really a circular question since there are no answers other than the wise attorneys and overlords at Wyndham know what they are doing.
The fact remains that Chapter 11 is for reorganization, wouldn't that lead us to expect the HOAs will survive after bankruptcy? It they don't, isn't that insolvency or liquidation. If that was the plan, wouldn't they go Chapter 7? Their attorneys may know what they are doing or we don't know their full plan and Chapter 11 is just the start.
He is referring to me. My questions aren't worthy of replies. This attitude seems to prevail here in the Wyndham forum. It is the only forum on TUG where I see so much animosity between posters. I would suspect that more people in this forum have others on ignore than any other forum on TUG.
Chapter 11 often leads to a sale. The bankruptcy process is used to make the company, association or whatever, more attractive to sellers. This comment by you makes it clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. So, keep asking questions, that is good, but I suggest you stop making assertions and comparing apples to oranges
Chapter 12? are they farmers or fishermen? What are you talking about?
You keep saying this, but you are not coming back with anything of substance other than more assertions.
I am not sure that is the case. At least not for Florida condos. Florida Statutes §718.117 requires a minimum of 80% vote to terminate unless a higher standard is in place within the condominium declarations. Based on some of the prior posts, one on this page, they controlled about 65% of some of these properties. I don't really know what it is for Star Island and Orlando International but I suspect probably below the 80%. I think their main concern was getting to those super majorities. It isn't a super majority based on owners who vote, it is based on all owners. Too many people don't vote and it makes for a very hard threshold to meet. Thus they couldn't hold votes to terminate at the outset.
I think the takeaway here is there's obviously more to this plan than just Chapter 11. What it is remains a secret.
What I don't understand is why they didn't just open up certified exit to anyone at those resorts to get enough deeds? If that didn't get them the percentage, then offer a free CWA swap, if their claims that most owners at these resorts paid more in MF/pt than CWA charges, I would actually be surprised if a bunch didn't take them up on it. And then if they STILL need more deeds, offer the hold outs IDK $1k per deed or something. In that case, their lack of communication except to direct selected individuals and general lack of awareness that caused such gnashing of teeth in this thread before would mean they probably wouldn't have to buy all the deeds or have a major bidding war. Maybe bankruptcy of the HOAs is seen as cheaper, but it also seems to me that most of the steps are still the same. They still had to get the votes to go for bankruptcy and to shut down the resort, so I just wonder how much would play out different.
I think the issue is that CE would open Wyndham up to having to pay the ongoing fees until they obtained control of enough deeds. Chapter 11 along with the existing votes is putting a permanent pause on future assessments. This includes assessments that would have had to be paid by CWA and any other Wyndham controlled deeds. So it likely is much cheaper for Wyndham to go the route they did. With Chapter 11 they can just use existing operating and reserve funds until such a time they can terminate the timeshare regime and sell the property or sell it with the timeshare regime in place. If they run out of funds before that happens they can likely use the property as collateral to obtain loans to continue funding the basic operations to keep things from getting bad. Like paying the taxes, insurance and basic utilities and maintenance.
It was a typo since corrected. No I meant sellers. you don't just declare you are for sale, someone or some company needs to handle the sale. That makes it easy for buyers to "kick the tires".
Except you are still ignoring a very important detail. The association doesn't own any real estate. The association could perhaps sell some foreclosed deeds if they are sitting on any. Outside of that, the association doesn't own the property or the units. What is the association going to sell?
The interval ownership system only survives if the HOA survives. Simple as that.
It isn't quite that simple. If you think that then, you are the one that really doesn't know what you are talking about.
Explain how it works without a functioning HOA.