Confused re: enrolled points vs trust points!

[postnobills]

Hi all,
I consider myself a reasonably smart person, but this is making my head spin!

I am a legacy owner of a week and can enroll my week in the DC program with it worth 2850 points. I am also thinking about buying another 1000 points in the trust program.

Here is my question - if I have points 2850 points through enrolling my legacy week and I buy another 1000 trust points, are these points cleanly combined each year so I can spend my 3850 points however I want, or is there some sort of distinction between the 2850 legacy week points and the 1000 new trust points that could impact how I am able to use those total points?

Thanks!
Bill

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

You will have 2800 Legacy points

You will have 1000-1500 Trust points...

they do not merge or morph, despite what the salesman tells you...

please go to the gregt inventory management thread...

I have had good experience with my Legacy points getting Trust units..but there are some bizzare tales... see kedler, superchief etc...

 

[dioxide45]

I don't think you can buy only 1000 trust points. That was the minimum early on last year, but I think the minimum amount you can buy now is 1500.

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . Here is my question - if I have points 2850 points through enrolling my legacy week and I buy another 1000 trust points, are these points cleanly combined each year so I can spend my 3850 points however I want, or is there some sort of distinction between the 2850 legacy week points and the 1000 new trust points that could impact how I am able to use those total points?

Thanks!
Bill

Not sure about the 1000 Trust points, but you can combine Trust and elected points to reserve anything in the exchange pool. You cannot combine them to reserve anything in the Trust pool unless Marriott moves some Trust inventory into the exchange pool. If you have been following some of the other threads here, you would know that we have been debating how and when those moves occur.

 

[Superchief]

You can use both trust points and exchange point to accomplish a 'stay' at a resort. However, the points cannot be combined for any single night. For example, if exchange inventory is available for 5 nights at the resort for 2800 points, you can use your 2800 points to reserve those five nights. If an additional two nights are available from the trust or exchange pool for 1000 points, you can reserve those 2 nights using your trust points.

However, if no nights are available from the exchange pool, you cannot use your exchange points for the reservation. Additionally, if the five nights required 2750 exchange points and the two nights required 1050 trust points, you are out of luck because the points can't be combined.

 

[wesley]

a follow up question

So I own 1000 trust points and own at MOW which can be traded for VC points (a legacy purchase - I enrolled MOW when I bought the 1000 points last year for about 9K) - So you are saying that these two pools of points are kept separate - is there or will there be anywhere on the web where I can see these point totals? And if I want a ten day vacation - with seven on enrolled points from MOW and three on trust points (the 1000 per year) will I make two reservations?? And I presume that trust points and enrolled (legacy) points "see" different availability when a vacation club rep is looking at the screen?? Is there any way for us to see what they see??

thanks

 

[Superchief]

So I own 1000 trust points and own at MOW which can be traded for VC points (a legacy purchase - I enrolled MOW when I bought the 1000 points last year for about 9K) - So you are saying that these two pools of points are kept separate - is there or will there be anywhere on the web where I can see these point totals? And if I want a ten day vacation - with seven on enrolled points from MOW and three on trust points (the 1000 per year) will I make two reservations?? And I presume that trust points and enrolled (legacy) points "see" different availability when a vacation club rep is looking at the screen?? Is there any way for us to see what they see??

thanks

Currently, there is no way to track your points or check availability without contacting a VOA. I have had to create my own excel files to track all of the various types of points. In addition to trust, legacy, and 'plus' points, I have to keep track of the year each point types can be used. When making a reservation with a VOA, you want to make sure they are using the oldest points first, and don't borrow trust points from a future year unless you know you will use them (once borrowed, they can't be returned).

I was able to make one reservation combining trust and legacy points. I used legacy points for four nights, and trust points for three at NCV. Inventory was available for both point sources. Since there currently appears to be more trust inventory available than legacy, I have also confirmed a reservation for a couple of nights (usually the weekend) using trust points, and waitlisted the additional nights that I planned to use the legacy points.

Trying to track points and effectively utilize the program can be a full-time job. I have also learned to not trust the VOA's, since they made major mistakes on two of my reservations (and MVC would do nothing to resolve these mistakes).

 

[hotcoffee]

I think some of the posts about point pots are making things harder than they really are. All of my reservations using points so far have been by combining Trust and legacy points. So, combining the points is not an issue. There are some technical details about how they can be combined for things such as a single night or when there are not enough nights in any one pot for the entire stay a the resort you want. I think they need to iron that out more. Perhaps, if we shout loud enough to Marriott, they will tweak it to make things a little easier.

 

[TRAVELING FOOL]

We are here at Lakeshore Reserve here in Orlando, on a trade from a lock off for a 3 bedrm Townhome. Absolutely beautiful! Went to a sales presentation this morning. Because we only own one 2 bedrm, we figured the point system is not such an advantage for us. However, the trust system sounded much better and would give us the availability of more timeshares exchanges,cruises, and European tours, and greater flexibility. 15,000 & 20,000 were the going rates plus the 165 club dues,$800 maintenance and regular maintenance fee on the timeshare we own. This seems like such alot, esp since we purchased from the developer and you all know how much that was! We've been lucky with Interval, except for Spring break.I can see our luck options getting slimmer on down the road. We took a year extension to come back for a 5n/6d stay and have the option to buy in at these rates if we still want to. We did not want to feel pressured into this, nor did I feel it in any way. Very professional. Would appreciate some advice,thoughts from other Tuggers.

 

[pharmgirl]

You can use both trust points and exchange point to accomplish a 'stay' at a resort. However, the points cannot be combined for any single night. For example, if exchange inventory is available for 5 nights at the resort for 2800 points, you can use your 2800 points to reserve those five nights. If an additional two nights are available from the trust or exchange pool for 1000 points, you can reserve those 2 nights using your trust points.

However, if no nights are available from the exchange pool, you cannot use your exchange points for the reservation. Additionally, if the five nights required 2750 exchange points and the two nights required 1050 trust points, you are out of luck because the points can't be combined.

WOW not being able to combine is the best reason for NOT buying any points
we were thinking of enrolling our 2 weeks and maybe buying some points - NO WAY WILL WE DO THIS NOW How stupid is Marriott to come up with this
we will just keep our 2 weeks

 

[dioxide45]

We are here at Lakeshore Reserve here in Orlando, on a trade from a lock off for a 3 bedrm Townhome. Absolutely beautiful! Went to a sales presentation this morning. Because we only own one 2 bedrm, we figured the point system is not such an advantage for us. However, the trust system sounded much better and would give us the availability of more timeshares exchanges,cruises, and European tours, and greater flexibility. 15,000 & 20,000 were the going rates plus the 165 club dues,$800 maintenance and regular maintenance fee on the timeshare we own. This seems like such alot, esp since we purchased from the developer and you all know how much that was! We've been lucky with Interval, except for Spring break.I can see our luck options getting slimmer on down the road. We took a year extension to come back for a 5n/6d stay and have the option to buy in at these rates if we still want to. We did not want to feel pressured into this, nor did I feel it in any way. Very professional. Would appreciate some advice,thoughts from other Tuggers.

How much was the 5 night Encore Package? IMO these are very overpriced. They are a good deal if you know for sure you will buy when you return. Given how expensive trust points are, will you for sure be buying? I would rescind on the Encore Package if you can.

 

[scrapngen]

We are here at Lakeshore Reserve here in Orlando, on a trade from a lock off for a 3 bedrm Townhome. Absolutely beautiful! Went to a sales presentation this morning. Because we only own one 2 bedrm, we figured the point system is not such an advantage for us. However, the trust system sounded much better and would give us the availability of more timeshares exchanges,cruises, and European tours, and greater flexibility. 15,000 & 20,000 were the going rates plus the 165 club dues,$800 maintenance and regular maintenance fee on the timeshare we own. This seems like such alot, esp since we purchased from the developer and you all know how much that was! We've been lucky with Interval, except for Spring break.I can see our luck options getting slimmer on down the road. We took a year extension to come back for a 5n/6d stay and have the option to buy in at these rates if we still want to. We did not want to feel pressured into this, nor did I feel it in any way. Very professional. Would appreciate some advice,thoughts from other Tuggers.

You might want to do some more research before you buy any new points...
Cruises are very expensive and require a LOT of points and often are not a bargain once you look at how much you'd spend in MF's. There is no resale market for points, so your purchase has no value down the road if you decide you don't want it anymore. Everyone is still having plenty of luck with II trades, so what happens on down the road is still unknown - but in the meantime you'd be paying some hefty fees for this supposed greater flexibility.

Whether or not you wish to put your 3-bed current TS into the new DP program is another matter, and depends on how much you spend locking-off/trading right now, and whether you are willing to lose a few days for greater flexibility...

Anyway, it sounds like you are already taking your time to look into the pros and cons. There are people here who have specific wants/needs that the DP program and/or new points have been very successful for. Others have found that it doesn't serve that well. Some of us have decided to add more resale weeks to our portfolios as prices have gone down on these, and we like having an underlying deeded home resort. Points have no home resort advantage and the program can be changed as to how much those points can reserve, while a week is a week.

 

[TRAVELING FOOL]

The encore pkg was 695 for a 2 bedrm at Grand Vista or Harbor Lake. A getaway doesn't give me this. Seriously thinking of canceling and forgetting the whole thing. Thought maybe waiting the year would give me more time to think it over and see how my exchanges go. Just think the amt they are asking for trust is way too much,plus more yearly fees.BTY, does anyone know what new owners are being asked to pay,since they will be entitled to all the trust shares.

 

[dioxide45]

There are not very many Grande Vista or Lakeshore 2BR getaways that are priced over $700 for SEVEN nights. Some of the peak times are probably high, but you can get just about any 2BR Orlando for under $600.

We also bought a $700 Encore Package several years ago. It was only for four nights. That is when we learned that they were very over priced. However it did save us a lot of money as we were able to look in to the resale process and started our first resale purchase before we actually returned and used the package.

 

[GregT]

I think some of the posts about point pots are making things harder than they really are. All of my reservations using points so far have been by combining Trust and legacy points. So, combining the points is not an issue. There are some technical details about how they can be combined for things such as a single night or when there are not enough nights in any one pot for the entire stay a the resort you want. I think they need to iron that out more. Perhaps, if we shout loud enough to Marriott, they will tweak it to make things a little easier.

Hotcoffee,

I hope you are right and that we confirm over time that Legacy/Trust can be combined effectively, and/or we figure out how to combine them effectively (we may learn that 10-11 months from check-in is more predictable to combine, versus at 12-13 months out).

However, this does highlight the lack of an owners guide/manual that explains the intricacies of the system, and how to most effectively utilize it. Over the weekend, I was looking back at my HGVC/Worldmark/Wyndham owners manuals, which are instructive in how to utilize their systems (and each of which are less complex than Marriott's). Marriott owners would benefit from such a manual.

Best,

Greg

 

[RBERR1]

Hotcoffee,

I hope you are right and that we confirm over time that Legacy/Trust can be combined effectively, and/or we figure out how to combine them effectively (we may learn that 10-11 months from check-in is more predictable to combine, versus at 12-13 months out).

However, this does highlight the lack of an owners guide/manual that explains the intricacies of the system, and how to most effectively utilize it. Over the weekend, I was looking back at my HGVC/Worldmark/Wyndham owners manuals, which are instructive in how to utilize their systems (and each of which are less complex than Marriott's). Marriott owners would benefit from such a manual.

Best,

Greg

Could not agree more about user manual. Like I said in my other post on the inventory managment, what drives me crazy is getting a different answer all of the time.

 

[hotcoffee]

Hotcoffee,

I hope you are right and that we confirm over time that Legacy/Trust can be combined effectively, and/or we figure out how to combine them effectively (we may learn that 10-11 months from check-in is more predictable to combine, versus at 12-13 months out).

So far, I have only made three calls to the VOA for reservations. One was for the MOC 2BR OF week, one was for the additional Ko Olina week consecutive to the MOC week, and one was for next year's Barony Beach week. All of those involved combining my points. There was little discussion about Trust inventory vs. Exchange inventory. Everything went pretty smoothly. No doubt all three of those weeks were in the exchange pool when I reserved them.

There are valid reasons why a person might not want to enroll in DC, but I don't think the points combining issue is one of them.

However, this does highlight the lack of an owners guide/manual that explains the intricacies of the system, and how to most effectively utilize it. Over the weekend, I was looking back at my HGVC/Worldmark/Wyndham owners manuals, which are instructive in how to utilize their systems (and each of which are less complex than Marriott's). Marriott owners would benefit from such a manual.

Best,

Greg

The two pools set up is probably the biggest reason for the complexity. There seems to be disagreement in this forum about whether Marriott legally has to keep those pools separate or not.

 

[dioxide45]

The lack of transparency seems to be what Marriott thinks works for them. They don't seem to want transparency, they want things hidden behind smoke and mirrors. A user manual would change that. I am truly boggled by why Marriott has not made the system easier to understand and more transparent. They would even be best to make it more hidden. If a reservation isn't available because of the split in inventory, the VOAs would be better to just say it isn't available instead of alluding to the split in inventory. It just cause problems, complaints and confusion.