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ClubWyndham Access Program

ferret

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I just sat through a pitch from a Wyndham VP on the Access program. Herewith a quick summary.
If I wish to sell my timeshare, I must by additional pts varying cost from $13,000 to $22,000. At some unspecified future date, I can then put my timeshare on the market with Wyndham acting as agent. Future costs will be higher. Wyndham will sell my contract at a higher price from that which I paid, and gain a profit. The buyer should get a discounted rate also. While it sounds 'fair' I still see gaps in the logic. My understanding is that, to date, noboby has executed this process.

Any experiences out there?
 
Simple answer - How can you tell when a salesman is not truthful and will not put it in writing? The salesman's lips were moving.

For Example: How far, far, far off in the future? 100 hundred years?
 
My understanding is that, to date, noboby has executed this process.

Any experiences out there?

Dosent that answer your question? Nobody has executed this process, so no one has the experience...I agree with what Linda stopped short of saying: Wyndham will never sell your timeshare


But even if they do ...Lets see if this makes sense...You wish to sell your timeshare, but to do so you need to buy another one...

pay $15000 for the new one, then sell your old one at a small profit (lets assume for the sake of argument your profit is $5000) So if all goes according to plan, you still own a timeshare and you are out of pocket $10000

Why not give away your current timeshare and buy the new one on ebay. I bet you could make it happen for under $1000 (way under probably)



Dont be a putz, dont buy from Wyndham; buy on the secondary market
 
Ron,
There has been the rumor of ROFR at several resorts - National Harbor is one. And possibly with Club Wyndham Access.

But that is far different from selling your timeshare at a PROFIT and acting as your agent.

It sounds like OP was being pitched a equity trade into Club Wyndham Access - a vacation club. Of course, they would only do that IF he brought additional points. As for in the future, listing and selling this club membership for the current owner? Nothing I have ever heard of - Wyndham has more than enough product to sell without having to deal with sellers.

And Ron, as a realtor, hand holding sellers and getting them to sign the sales documents sometimes have YOU THINKING, this IS truly NOT worth it the chump change I clear on this deal.
 
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.

And Ron, as a realtor, hand holding sellers and getting them to sign the sales documents sometimes have YOU THINKING, this IS truly NOT worth it the chump change I clear on this deal.

sometimes....
 
Recurring Sales Theme

Isn't that the recurring theme at the Wyndham sales presentations? Whether changing home resorts, or Wyndham having a better product that you should trade into, you ALWAYS have to purchase more points?
 
Roger that

All of your comments mirror those of my wife and me. The presentation was as usual, valid until we check out, which was a nonstarter.
 
I am looking at a 154,000 pt ClubWyndham Access program with monthly MF of $76 for just closing cost and transfer fee($700)

I am looking for feedback from owners of ClubWyndham Access about how easy or difficult it is to book vacations with that APR at this time since so many resorts have now been included in the program and would it be better for me to keep looking for a home resort instead of the CWA program?

Tere
 
I am looking at a 154,000 pt ClubWyndham Access program with monthly MF of $76 for just closing cost and transfer fee($700)

I am looking for feedback from owners of ClubWyndham Access about how easy or difficult it is to book vacations with that APR at this time since so many resorts have now been included in the program and would it be better for me to keep looking for a home resort instead of the CWA program?

Tere

I think it depends on the resort and how many units are in the Club Access program...For example at Avenue Plaza (it is in Club Access) there are a total of 240+ units in the building, but there is limited inventory to points owners. The directory says very limited (under 10)...The rest of the place is owned by weeks owners.


La Belle Maison also in New Orleans is a new facility and I dont think there is any fixed weeks inventory.. I have the same question as you...If I want ARP here should I buy a La Belle Maison udi contract, or would Club Wyndham Access work? or put another way...Of the 140+ units at La Belle Maison, how many are Club Wyndham Access inventory.....

Time out to call Wyndham


I dont think the wyndham folks know what they should, or Im not asking the question properly....The first person I spoke to said Club Wyndham Access owners and deeded owners all draw from the same inventory, but then he added Club Wyndham Access owners only have 11 month ARP. I know thats wrong, so I called back.....The next person said it makes no difference. Both classes of ownership have the same inventory available to them 13 months out.

So to answer your question and mine. It seems that it dosent make any difference when it comes to ARP. Club Wyndham Access works just as well as a deeded ownership.

Im not convinced, but thats the answer I got today

I would be concerned if I was a deeded owner because Club Wyndham Access opens up ARP at my resort to so many more members. If Wyndham does what it looks like to me they are doing, ie to put everything they can in the Access Program; the value of ARP will be diluted because everybody will have it everywhere

I still have questions about Club Wyndham Access; specifically, why do different contracts have different mf (yours looks a little high to me). I thought this was a large trust where they dumped ownership from multiple resorts. The end result should be a large pile of inventory, with many owners where the cost of ownership, (mf and special assessments) are averaged and spread across the entire owner base. I expect every Club Wyndham Access contract to have the same mf ($/point) but thats not the case...Are there multiple trusts?
 
I dont think the wyndham folks know what they should, or Im not asking the question properly....The first person I spoke to said Club Wyndham Access owners and deeded owners all draw from the same inventory, but then he added Club Wyndham Access owners only have 11 month ARP. I know thats wrong, so I called back.....The next person said it makes no difference. Both classes of ownership have the same inventory available to them 13 months out.

So to answer your question and mine. It seems that it dosent make any difference when it comes to ARP. Club Wyndham Access works just as well as a deeded ownership.

Im not convinced, but thats the answer I got today

I would be concerned if I was a deeded owner because Club Wyndham Access opens up ARP at my resort to so many more members. If Wyndham does what it looks like to me they are doing, ie to put everything they can in the Access Program; the value of ARP will be diluted because everybody will have it everywhere

I still have questions about Club Wyndham Access; specifically, why do different contracts have different mf (yours looks a little high to me). I thought this was a large trust where they dumped ownership from multiple resorts. The end result should be a large pile of inventory, with many owners where the cost of ownership, (mf and special assessments) are averaged and spread across the entire owner base. I expect every Club Wyndham Access contract to have the same mf ($/point) but thats not the case...Are there multiple trusts?

Ron,

I agree that the people you spoke to either don't understand the question or don't understand the rules. I don't see how it could be the same pool of inventory because of the contractual ARP that goes with a UDI ownership. Experiences I have heard people report trying to make an ARP reservation through Club Wyndham Access are that they have sometimes been successful, but other times have been told that the Club Wyndham Access ARP for that resort has already been used up.

I'm not sure that you are confused about it, but others might be. An analogy might be helpful in picturing this. Let's consider a mega-owner who owns tens of millions of points deeded in various locations. Even though they have tens of millions of points, there are still restrictions on what they can ARP with them. You can't make an ARP reservation anywhere where you don't own enough points there to back up the reservation. (There are some 11 month Reciprocal ARP situations written into various contracts, and at various VIP levels, but the regular ARP still gets the jump on those exceptions). Now think of Club Wyndham Access as a mega-owner that has tens or hundreds of millions of points in their account - they still can't touch ARP where they don't have the points - or where the points have already been used for another reservation.

That is my understanding, based on both the reading of the contract language and from the accounts of owners in Club Wyndham Access.

Regarding the different mf's on Club Wyndham Access contracts - I'd say especially if you're dealing with ebay sellers, you will see a wide variance based on whether or not they are including the program fees (which I think are a different ratio based on EOY or every year anyway), etc.
 
learnalot

I was only reporting what they told me. They couldnt or wouldnt answer my direct question which was....how many units are available to me to ARP at La belle Maison as a Club Access Owner?. and how many as a regular points owner?

My understanding was that there are two trusts, each with their own specific deeds. there is a deed (or deeds) in one trust or the other to back up the points you have. I thought as you; during the ARP period you can only get to inventory deposited in your trust.

But I think we are wrong

I dont think , that there is any contractual obligation in one trust that dosent exist in the other...after all they are the same deeds.

If you have deposited a UDI deed from resort XYZ in the Fairshare Trust, and I own a piece of the Club Access Trust within which a UDI deed from the same resort is deposited; Dont we both have the same right to ARP at that resort?

UDI deeds are just that...an undivided interest...It seems to me that preventing me from using your property or you from using mine (subject to availability) would create a division among what are un-divided interests
 
learnalot
I was only reporting what they told me. They couldnt or wouldnt answer my direct question which was....how many units are available to me to ARP at La belle Maison as a Club Access Owner?

Right.

And until they can or will for all resorts, how can you evaluate such an ownership.
 
Right.

And until they can or will for all resorts, how can you evaluate such an ownership.

You can safely assume the number to be but a small subset of other use rights - especially those that are in the "regular" Fairshare Plus (or whatever they are calling it this week). That mean you odds of getting it are far worse in the Access system than it would be as a more reasonably priced "regular", low cost resale ownership. And both may be beat in real value by simply renting what you want as there are so many mega-owners as well as smaller ones always looking to rent to recover some fees. As there is no obligation with that (except to pay the agreed rent) that may be the most flexible and cost effective choice of all. One that is guaranteed to be a loser is any retail purchase of any Wyndham product. No exceptions.
 
learnalot

If you have deposited a UDI deed from resort XYZ in the Fairshare Trust, and I own a piece of the Club Access Trust within which a UDI deed from the same resort is deposited; Dont we both have the same right to ARP at that resort?

UDI deeds are just that...an undivided interest...It seems to me that preventing me from using your property or you from using mine (subject to availability) would create a division among what are un-divided interests

Yes, but only for the points represented by each of our respective ownerships. The difference here is the point I was making earlier. If I have UDI at a particular resort, I own that UDI alone. If the trust (Club Wyndham Access) owns 200K points worth of UDI, the trust owns those 200K and they can be used for ARP at that resort. But if the trust only owns 200K at that resort, the first person(s) who try to ARP will be able to - up to 200K. But once the 200K that the trust owns have been used for ARP, there aren't any other ARP points available (for that resort) to the other members of the trust.

As I just reread your comments, it occurs to me that part of the problem probably IS with your question. Because you are thinking in terms of units or weeks. La Bella Maison was sold strictly as points, so the question should be "How many La Bella Maison points are in Club Wyndham Access?" Not saying you'll get an answer, but they might just be more equipped to answer it phrased that way.
 
I understand your argument, and I think you are right. I have exactly that same understanding

The Wyndham Directory makes it clear regarding ARP. Reservation availability is based in part on the amount of inventory in Club Wyndham Access at each resort location

Its just that the reservations people that make the ARP reservations for you dont seem to know the rules
 
I understand your argument, and I think you are right. I have exactly that same understanding

The Wyndham Directory makes it clear regarding ARP. Reservation availability is based in part on the amount of inventory in Club Wyndham Access at each resort location

Its just that the reservations people that make the ARP reservations for you dont seem to know the rules

I understand. I was thinking that the computer might do the thinking for them-so if you call to make a reservation the computer may determine whether or not that is possible but if you are just calling with a question, they might just try answering it clueless that they are actually clueless.
 
I understand. I was thinking that the computer might do the thinking for them-so if you call to make a reservation the computer may determine whether or not that is possible but if you are just calling with a question, they might just try answering it clueless that they are actually clueless.

No question about that. I dont know about the computer.

My first thought is a question...If the computer can do it, why cant I make the ARP reservation on my computer? Why do I have to call with my arp reservation request?

For my purposes I think the question about how many units are in one program or another is academic. It might make a difference if I wanted to reserve 20 or 30 units for one special date. But if that was the case Id be buying points based at the resort and Club Access points..If all I want is 2 or 3. I bet a call at 8am on the right day would work either way
 

Ron:

I do not know how many trusts are involved. There are at least two. The old Fairfield Trust, now Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access. There may be a third trust called the Wyndham Trust. I could find no information about this Trust other than at a hardball sales presentation where they demanded timeshares I own be deed over to the Wyndham Trust for free and I buy new timeshares from Wyndham when this dispute was over, I was told that the salesperson and manager making this demand were fired (I doubt this) and that the agents were actually talking about the Wyndham Club Access trust taking all my deed for free and that I was to then buy new ones with Wyndham Club Access. They denied that a seperate trust called Wyndham Trust existed and the salesperson and sales manager were not to be making demands for transfer of properties to it for free. I did a decent google search for this critter at the time and could find no reference to a Wyndham Trust that was associated with the Windham Worldwide grouping of companies. However there was a Wyndham Trust that did not appear to have any ties whatsoever with the Wyndham Worldwide grouping of companies. I wrote it off at the time to two maverick employees trying to take the existing deeds for free to something called the Wyndham Trust (not impossable that is the group that I found reference to) and then get credit for new sales into Club Wyndham Access (no trade credit were being offered for the old properties).
 
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... If you have deposited a UDI deed from resort XYZ in the Fairshare Trust, and I own a piece of the Club Access Trust within which a UDI deed from the same resort is deposited; Dont we both have the same right to ARP at that resort?

UDI deeds are just that...an undivided interest...It seems to me that preventing me from using your property or you from using mine (subject to availability) would create a division among what are un-divided interests

Your logic is excellent and under this theory, given that Club Wyndham Access has a duty to operate in the interest of their group of members, what stops them from going in and making ARP reservations at the opening bell for the best weeks/days based on their projections of what their members want up to their projections or the maxium amount of ARP reservations they can take at the desirable resorts/times. They they would be free to cancel them prior to the last 15 days or at any time they think they are no longer needed. Specifically, at the 60 day out time when they can then mass book the cancelled reservations at the heavily disount rate from Club Wyndham Plus. Guest passes for the Legal Enity Club Wyndham Access to their members would probably not be needed because their members are also their owners.

P.S. found the following on the internet:

Giving Land The Wyndham Land Trust strives to conserve valuable open space in Windham County. The land trust is interested in receiving any land donation, although our emphasis is on conserving land that contains habitat for threatened plant and animal species; for example, grassland meadows, wetlands, swamps, and riperean habitat. A variety of tools are available that allow you to donate land to the land trust and receive financial benefits. Flexibility is the key. If you are interested in making a land donation, we suggest that you contact the land trust to explore your options. We recommend that you retain an attorney who will represent your interests during discussions with the land trust.

Options for donating land include:

Fee Simple If you own all of the present and future rights to a property, that property is owned in fee simple. No one else has rights to the property. If you bequeath or donate fee simple title to the land trust, tax liability is determined from the full fair market value.

Fee Simple with Qualifications You can transfer less than the fee simple title to your land by placing a conservation easements (or restriction) on the property when you donate it to the land trust. A conservation easement protects the land as you wish and produces significant federal income tax and possibly federal estate tax benefits.

Bargain Sale In many cases, the land trust cannot afford to buy land for conservation. A bargain sale, in which you sell your land at less than its fair market value, may make your land affordable and provide the protection you are seeking. A bargain sale combines the income-producing benefit of a sale with the tax-reducing benefit of a donation. It can also avoid the expenses of a sale on the open market. The difference between the land’s appraised fair market value and its sale price is considered a charitable donation to the land trust and can be claimed by the landowner as an income tax deduction.

Life Estate A life estate allows you to retain an interest in your property that lasts for your lifetime. For example, a life estate can be used if you want to retain the right to live on and use your property for the rest of your life. Certain duties remain with the holder of the life estate, such as maintaining the property, paying taxes and paying mortgage interest. The Wyndham Land Trust becomes the owner of your property upon your death (or that of any specified beneficiaries), and your estate receives a charitable deduction equal to the value of the property.

Conservation Easements ...
 
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There has been the rumor of ROFR at several resorts - National Harbor is one. And possibly with Club Wyndham Access ...

Not just a rumor, I bought at Towers on the Grove and it had a provision for right of first refusal. This is not what is being described above. I have sat though one sales pitch that if I bought an additional timeshare, then when the Wyndham re-sale program became operational, I would have the right to give them the listing and they would attempt to sell it for 90 days.
 
Not just a rumor, I bought at Towers on the Grove and it had a provision for right of first refusal. This is not what is being described above. I have sat though one sales pitch that if I bought an additional timeshare, then when the Wyndham re-sale program became operational, I would have the right to give them the listing and they would attempt to sell it for 90 days.

You do realize ROFR has no value to you the seller or the buyer, correct? If it was even applied - which is unlikely they ever would - the only benefit possible is to Wyndham. It is being used as yet another way to confuse buyers and act like a negative is a benefit.
 
You do realize ROFR has no value to you the seller or the buyer, correct? If it was even applied - which is unlikely they ever would - the only benefit possible is to Wyndham. It is being used as yet another way to confuse buyers and act like a negative is a benefit.

I know, it was a small point contract. I think these are a major negative to the existing owner. The ower finds the buyer that sets the price (currently very very low if not negative) then Wyndham decides if they want it at that price or not.
 
No question about that. I dont know about the computer.

My first thought is a question...If the computer can do it, why cant I make the ARP reservation on my computer? Why do I have to call with my arp reservation request?

For my purposes I think the question about how many units are in one program or another is academic. It might make a difference if I wanted to reserve 20 or 30 units for one special date. But if that was the case Id be buying points based at the resort and Club Access points..If all I want is 2 or 3. I bet a call at 8am on the right day would work either way

To your first question - why do you have to call in - they don't use the same reservation platform we use. They are in a mainframe. I've seen it a couple times.

As to the second issue, here's what I was thinking this morning...when they told you that it's the same inventory - I think, in a way, they are right but also misguided and/or misguiding. Because, with the probably exception of fixed week, the inventory itself (actual units) are not restricted or segregated. The units themselves couldn't be restricted in that way because of the flexibility we have in unit size. An example: If I have 400K points UDI at a particular resort, I might be able to book 3 1BR deluxe units, 2 2BR deluxe units, or a 4BR Presidential (not Presidential Reserve). Given that, they can't really segregate or restrict the actual units - only one's ability to use their points to book or not book them based on whether the request exceeds one's ARP available at that resort. And, in the case of Club Wyndham Access, "one's" ARP available for that resort, actually means "Club's" ARP available for that resort. Follow?
 
learnalot

I follow your argument, I understand the way the rues are written today. But I do see the logic for another set of rules (ie a udi deed is a udi deed and just because one is in one trust, and the other is in another, doesnt mean they have to erect a wall between them (the wall isnt there during the standard reservation window.)

Right now I suspect that at any particular resort there are less points allocated to the Club Wyndham access trust than to the other one But as time goes on I think Wyndham will be selling more and more Club access stuff. And if our assumptions are correct, foreclosures and deed backs will be dumped in the Access Trust. I see the possibility of the advantage if there is one, shifting from the one to the other

I just spoke to a salesman at Wyndham...And yes his lips were moving, so I know he was lying about something. But what he told me was consistent with what the person at the reservations desk told me last week. And that is: a Club Wyndham Access owner and an owner of a UDI, have exactly the same inventory available to them when making an ARP reservation. He couldnt explain and just dismissed the line in the directory (pg 311) that says ARP availability is limited by ..."the amount of inventory in ClubWyndham Access at each ClubWyndham Access resort location" . He also said that they sell out of both trusts at his resort

So as I said: I understand what the book says, and I understand why it says it. What I want to know is, as a practical matter, how is it implemented. and the related selfish questions: What does it mean to me? and for my purposes does it matter which trust I buy into.

Next week I start calling owner relations
 
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