Club Wyndham Access

[tleonard]

I attended a "member update information presentation" The whole presentation was encouraging me to trade up my deeded proprieties, purchase more points to reach Club Wyndham Access level.
Question 1: What is Club Wyndham access? I understood that CWA is a level of ownership which allows me to book 11- 13 month in advance into all World Mark Shell resorts. I asked why and they said because Wyndham owns them. I specifically asked if I had CWA would I really have access to Leavenworth WM or peak season availability to West Yellowstone WM? The answer was yes because Wyndham owns them. Question 2 : Does Wyndham really own them?
Question 3: I am constantly "being" encouraged sometimes with scary scenarios of the importance of exchanging my deeded timeshares and put them in the trust. Why the push? Thank you so much - teresa

 

[Bigrob]

I attended a "member update information presentation" The whole presentation was encouraging me to trade up my deeded proprieties, purchase more points to reach Club Wyndham Access level.
Question 1: What is Club Wyndham access? I understood that CWA is a level of ownership which allows me to book 11- 13 month in advance into all World Mark Shell resorts. I asked why and they said because Wyndham owns them. I specifically asked if I had CWA would I really have access to Leavenworth WM or peak season availability to West Yellowstone WM? The answer was yes because Wyndham owns them. Question 2 : Does Wyndham really own them?
Question 3: I am constantly "being" encouraged sometimes with scary scenarios of the importance of exchanging my deeded timeshares and put them in the trust. Why the push? Thank you so much - teresa

First, there is no such thing as a "member update information presentation". There is a full-on strong-armed sales presentation. The purpose of the sales staff is to identify a need or problem you have, and find a solution for it. The problem is always going to be that whatever you have "isn't right" and the answer is always going to be some flavor of "buy more points". As long as you understand this going on, and realize that most of what you will hear during these "updates" is outrageously indefensible and just plain wrong, then you will be in much better shape to cheerfully say thanks but no thanks, let's go to gifting.

To answer your questions. 1) CWA is a different type of ownership. It is non-deeded - more like a membership than an ownership. The "Club" owns a percentage of inventory at a number of Wyndham resorts (Wyndham ONLY - do not be confused by the lies of the sales staff). The ONLY resorts you have ARP at (months 11-13) are WYNDHAM CWA resorts. Wyndham owns Worldmark and Shell Vacation Club, yes, but that does not mean that Worldmark and SVC are in CWA inventory - THEY ARE NOT.

2) The Sales Staff is probably trying to confuse you by discussing the benefits of Club Wyndham Pass which will allow you to make reservations at (currently only Worldmark, not Shell) resorts if you pay a $99 fee. However, this inventory will not become available to you until the 9 month mark, a month after the inventory has been open season in the home resort system(s). So you can forget about the promises of availability of the highest demand WM resorts.

3) See my preamble. It wouldn't matter what you owned, from the Sales staff's perspective, they have to find a problem with your ownership and help you "solve" it. Otherwise, they make no sale and no commission. I have heard tales of Sales staff who have somehow managed to convince people their National Harbor or Canterbury contracts are "no good" and to trade them in for much higher MF deeds at Great Smokies Lodge or Bonnet Creek.

It's unfortunate that Wyndham relies so heavily on misinformation. Fortunately you have this forum to help with "fact-checking".

 

[uscav8r]

...

purchase more points to reach Club Wyndham Access level.

Question 1: What is Club Wyndham access? I understood that CWA is a level of ownership which allows me to book 11- 13 month in advance into all World Mark Shell resorts. I asked why and they said because Wyndham owns them. I specifically asked if I had CWA would I really have access to Leavenworth WM or peak season availability to West Yellowstone WM? The answer was yes because Wyndham owns them. Question 2 : Does Wyndham really own them?
...

- teresa

CWA has nothing to do with Worldmark or Shell; it can only be used in the Wyndham system. Developer points (whether CWA or CW Plus) will be able to use the new Pass program to exchange into WM or Shell.

It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get a peak season West Yellowstone through Pass.

You'll likely get a few people on here who would rail against the claim that "Wyndham owns Worldmark" or Shell.

Wyndham manages all three systems and owns the right to develop new resorts for the three brands, but that's about it.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ronparise]

The fact is the Wyndham doesnt own any resorts.

Wyndham is the developer. and the manager. They develop a resort and then they break it into little pieces that we call timeshares, and sell them to us...Except for inventory they havent sold yet, We own the resorts and Wyndham is hired to manage them

Whether they be Worldmark or Shell or Club Wyndham resorts ...we own them. Even in the case or Worldmark and CWA which are clubs that we are members of, rather than deeded owners, Wyndham is not the owner. In these cases the deeds are held in trust.

So your salesmans emphasis on owning is a little off the mark. That and the other lies he is telling, like John says, is designed to solve a "problem" or "need" you have. And the problem can always be solved, or the need satisfied with a purchase of something that they have.


If you want to know more about CWA and how it relates to the rest of Club Wyndham, take a look at the diagram on page 353 of the Wyndham owners directory and read the pages following that. There is a discussion of both Club Wyndham Select and Club Wyndham Access

 

[lcml11]

I attended a "member update information presentation" The whole presentation was encouraging me to trade up my deeded proprieties, purchase more points to reach Club Wyndham Access level.
Question 1: What is Club Wyndham access? I understood that CWA is a level of ownership which allows me to book 11- 13 month in advance into all World Mark Shell resorts. I asked why and they said because Wyndham owns them. I specifically asked if I had CWA would I really have access to Leavenworth WM or peak season availability to West Yellowstone WM? The answer was yes because Wyndham owns them. Question 2 : Does Wyndham really own them?
Question 3: I am constantly "being" encouraged sometimes with scary scenarios of the importance of exchanging my deeded timeshares and put them in the trust. Why the push? Thank you so much - teresa

Depending on the resort, what I hear involving Wyndham Club Plus/Access owners availability to the Shell System is as follows. One resort pushes what they call a 55 plus 8 community that is available with a new purchase of Club Wyndham Access. The 8 are alleged to be 8 Shell Affiliates. Another Resort was saying that Shell Availability will only be available to Club Wyndham Access owners and only Access owner points can be used if non Access deeds are owned. Different stories have different points of view pertaining to Shell, the most aggressive I have heard is not dissimilar to yours other than the ARP crack. That is all Shell Resorts will be part of Wyndham Club Access by the end of the year.

For what it is worth, I checked within the last few days with Wyndham Corporate, and they are not confirming that any Shell Properties are coming on board.

As for the other points your made reference to if specifics are given on the bad things that are coming for existing owners that do not buy a new contract, please post these as warning for others so more accurate responses can be provided.

Please provide the name of the resort pushing the Shell Access and expanded ARP rights. If anyone buys more Club Wyndham Access based on the availability to the Shell and Worldmark systems or the expanded ARP rights, be sure to get it writing (that probably will not happen).

My guess is that what was being talked about was the upcoming access to WorldMark through the Wyndham Club Pass program. If the Shell chatter materializes, other than the exception of the eight Shell Affiliates, that probably would also be through the Club Pass System.

Variations of what appears to be the new sales pitch of "One Company" appears to be spreading or variations of it.

For what it is worth, you appear to have labeled, like me, a "old Fairfield Owner". That is probably where the stories of bad things to come for this group are coming from.

Are the bad things coming? Who knows the way this ball is bouncing.

 

[comicbookman]

For what it is worth, you appear to have labeled, like me, a "old Fairfield Owner". That is probably where the stories of bad things to come for this group are coming from.

Are the bad things coming? Who knows the way this ball is bouncing.

I am going to ignore most of the nonsense in your post and ask this question: Why did you invent a category called "old Fairfield Owner" and what in the OP's question are you basing added them to this phantom category?

 

[lcml11]

I am going to ignore most of the nonsense in your post and ask this question: Why did you invent a category called "old Fairfield Owner" and what in the OP's question are you basing added them to this phantom category?

Not a phantom category. Have been to a number of presentations that a special segregated sales pitch is given for people that have been given that label.

They typically flash a document in front of my nose but take it back before I can read it. It typically occurs during the loss of rights on this category and how I will loss use rights to my Towers on the Grove UDI deed and more recently not be permitted to use my Club Wyndham Access points unless I buy a new deed and give them back some of my deeded timeshares.

Others have posted feedback that I am not the only one that gets this type of treatment. I suspect they also have been given the label of "Old Fairfield Owner".

Here is how one current re-seller describes Fairfield points:

"Fairfield Resorts (now owned by Wyndham Vacation Resorts) offers many numerous timeshare resorts for their members. Fairfield works on a points system (Fairfield Points) that allows members to use any of the resorts in their collection, not just a specific resort providing high flexibility in vacation planning for its members. The points system offers consumers flexibility in their vacation length, location choices, when they travel, and the size of the unit they stay in. Fairfield members can use their points both for resort vacations and a large array of travel and leisure products including airfare, cruises, and specialized activities and attractions."

Interesting enough, they list the following resort as part of Fairfield Points:

Sands Ocean Club, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, United States

I bought one of the Wyndham timeshare units at this Resort. And, it did come into the Wyndham Club Plus system as a PIC contract in conjunction with a new purchase. It was in the form of a long term lease that I took. Price was right, free with the purchase.

I have long believed that the designation of an Old Fairfield Owner is not necessarily a bad thing.

And, no I did not forget to post the link. I just do not want to turn in the name to this board. Actually, his description was interesting.

If there is a phantom category, it would be the 55 plus 8 Community being pitched out of Shawnee Mountain. I passed, I did not want to join this community since I already have access to over 55 Wyndham controlled resorts.

Here is the information on my Sands Ocean Club contract:

Contract Type: Personal Interval Choice (PIC)
Points: 105,000
Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee: $0.00 (Fee billed by your HOA)
Program Fee
Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.57
Program Fee: (105,000 / 1000) * $0.57 = $59.85
CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Assessment
Annual Fee: $0.00 + $59.85 = $59.85
* Monthly Fee: $59.85 / 12 = $4.99

By the way, you may want to check to see if any of your contracts show Fairfield as the seller, if so, you may be destine to join us with that label.

If there is anyone out there that has attended one of these types of updates (mine were primarily out of Myrtle Beach and Shawnee Mountain), please give me a hand with doubting Thomas.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1361658/000119312506135721/dex211.htm

For whatever it is worth, the above link gives the different company names for Wyndham Worldwide, please note that Fairfield Myrtle Beach, Inc. still exists along with Fairfield Resorts and Fairfied Vacation Resorts, Inc., and a host of other legacy Fairfield companies.

For what ever it is worth, if Fairfield Myrtle Beach ever spun off from Wyndham Club Plus in the new Wyndham Wonderland, I could live with that.

 

[ronparise]

Not a phantom category. Have been to a number of presentations that a special segregated sales pitch is given for people that have been given that label.

The important part of this sentence is "segregated sales pitch"

What Robert doesnt seem to understand is that every sales pitch at Wyndham is a segregated sales pitch. and there are problems with whatever you own. and the solution is always buy whats being offered today.

Ive talked to deeded owners that are told that CWA is better, and CWA owners that have been told a deeded ownership is better, and weeks owners that are told that points are better. And when you visit one resort you will learn of the problems with the others, especially the ones you own.

Robert needs to learn to take what the sales force says with a grain of salt

 

[Bigrob]

Not a phantom category. Have been to a number of presentations that a special segregated sales pitch is given for people that have been given that label.

There are many many more categories than that if we are trying to evaluate how Wyndham Sales parses out their prospects. They have lots of techniques and match sales reps based on many factors - who is the key decision-maker; what are the points of resistance, etc.

I don't believe they reserve the story of "your old-style Fairfield points are no good" for "Old Fairfield Owners". It is a very common theme that "your old-style (insert what you own here) ownership NEEDS to be converted for the way people vacation today."

There is no distinction, of course, between "Old Fairfield" points and Wyndham points. They spend just the same. That Wyndham Sales staff may bring messaging that is slightly different depending upon when the victim last bought, what they bought, and how easily they might be confused into buying again, doesn't mean that the ownership rights are any different.

 

[lcml11]

The important part of this sentence is "segregated sales pitch"

What Robert doesnt seem to understand is that every sales pitch at Wyndham is a segregated sales pitch. and there are problems with whatever you own. and the solution is always buy whats being offered today.

Ive talked to deeded owners that are told that CWA is better, and CWA owners that have been told a deeded ownership is better, and weeks owners that are told that points are better. And when you visit one resort you will learn of the problems with the others, especially the ones you own.

Robert needs to learn to take what the sales force says with a grain of salt

For the foreseeable future I am quite happy with my Fairfield Community designation. I do not see any problem with it. Sales has failed multiple times in striping me of my Towers on the Grove rights (because it is a deeded property I might add) and more recently my rights under Wyndham Club Access. However, the sales staff many years ago made a big thing about how Wyndham owned RCI and I was going to have a lot of problems with RCI using it. I called RCI and they indicated that they did and will do what Wyndham Sales said if I did not buy a new unit. Have not used RCI since and probably will not in future.

Just as recently as today, found a post card from RCI that said Wemiss you and we want you back. The answer is still no, in my experience, the use rights in RCI without headaches is conditioned on doing what the sales rep said.

With the current sales battlecry of "One Company" coming from Wyndham sales, I would suspect the Wyndham related companies that play that game will do what ever it takes to support the sales staff.

 

[Bigrob]

The answer is still no, in my experience, the use rights in RCI without headaches is conditioned on doing what the sales rep said.

And again I am confused here. If you own CWA, you have RCI included in your CWP program fees. When you go into your points account, you have access to "RCI Exchange" (unless you are one of the few who still have an II affiliated resort and wrote the letter to keep them from converting you).

Your rights to utilize RCI exchanges are there for you whether you choose to take advantage of them or not. Maintaining a separate RCI account, while possible, is unnecessary (unless you have other RCI points ownership resorts).

What specific headaches are you referring to, and what "solution" did the sales rep proscribe to eliminate them?

 

[Sloane S]

I am going to ignore most of the nonsense in your post and ask this question: Why did you invent a category called "old Fairfield Owner" and what in the OP's question are you basing added them to this phantom category?

You're heading down the rabbit hole where he'll begin to talk about how Wyndham tried to steal his ownerships......

 

[lcml11]

And again I am confused here. If you own CWA, you have RCI included in your CWP program fees. When you go into your points account, you have access to "RCI Exchange" (unless you are one of the few who still have an II affiliated resort and wrote the letter to keep them from converting you).

Your rights to utilize RCI exchanges are there for you whether you choose to take advantage of them or not. Maintaining a separate RCI account, while possible, is unnecessary (unless you have other RCI points ownership resorts).

What specific headaches are you referring to, and what "solution" did the sales rep proscribe to eliminate them?

I have only the one RCI account. The issue of the day was if I did not buy a new contract, they would give me headaches when I tried to book one. When RCI said they would back up what sales said, I chose not to give them the chance to do it.

The issue I raised was not me, it is what the bad things the OP made reference to.

 

[lcml11]

You're heading down the rabbit hole where he'll begin to talk about how Wyndham tried to steal his ownerships......

Na, what Wyndham is doing speaks for itself. The most recent loss of the ability to make reservations without a fee at the Associate (or former) WorldMark Resorts speaks for itself.

It remains to be seen what happens to Shell Resorts.

The 11 to 13 booking rights in the OP's orginal post was very interesting. I cannot help but note under the Wyndham Club Pass program new developer purchases means they can book the good timeshares now where everyone is on hold. Maybe the expanded 11 to 13 months ARP will be part of the of the make believe 55 plus 8 community.

Maybe this is a beta for what is to come.

The loss rights under Wyndham Club Pass pre-dates my ownership. I understand once upon a time, there were unlimited guest passes and owners could transfer points between themselves. Someone posted a list recently of a old lawsuit on VIP rights that have lost. It was a decently long list.

As I understand it, on a continuing basis, as more deeds pass into the control of Club Wyndham Access, the availability of ARPing of the Resorts involved will continue to decline. From the OP's post, it does appear that some deeded properties are in the account that Wyndham wants back. It is my understanding that under the current rules, not all deeded properties can be given credit to a new purchase, only those that Wyndham wants back.

etc. etc. etc.

 

[tleonard]

The sales person did exactly what you said - she listen well for problems and had solutions that involved buying more points. thanks - for your insight. teresa

The fact is the Wyndham doesnt own any resorts.

Wyndham is the developer. and the manager. They develop a resort and then they break it into little pieces that we call timeshares, and sell them to us...Except for inventory they havent sold yet, We own the resorts and Wyndham is hired to manage them

Whether they be Worldmark or Shell or Club Wyndham resorts ...we own them. Even in the case or Worldmark and CWA which are clubs that we are members of, rather than deeded owners, Wyndham is not the owner. In these cases the deeds are held in trust.

So your salesmans emphasis on owning is a little off the mark. That and the other lies he is telling, like John says, is designed to solve a "problem" or "need" you have. And the problem can always be solved, or the need satisfied with a purchase of something that they have.


If you want to know more about CWA and how it relates to the rest of Club Wyndham, take a look at the diagram on page 353 of the Wyndham owners directory and read the pages following that. There is a discussion of both Club Wyndham Select and Club Wyndham Access

 

[tleonard]

Thank you for checking with Wyndham Corp. about the Shell company. The property where I went to the presentation was the Flagstaff property - a great property. Yes, I am "an old Fairfield Owner" both of my properties were Fairfield Deeds one in Vegas and the other in Texas. In 2010 the Wisconsin Dells people were awful, wanting me to upgrade my deeded property because of an audit that was coming. To not do so my maintenance fees would go up $150.00 a month. I didn't see it happen.

The recent presentation that I attended was at Flagstaff, AZ. I was assured that if I used my deeds and traded them along with the purchase of 105,000 pts. in a trust deed then I would be an owner of all the CWA properties and have access to the World Mark and Shell properties that I can not get now as a Wyndham Club Plus VIP Gold member. As I look back I am thinking the whole pitch was to try and get me to the Platinum Level but I am to sure.

Depending on the resort, what I hear involving Wyndham Club Plus/Access owners availability to the Shell System is as follows. One resort pushes what they call a 55 plus 8 community that is available with a new purchase of Club Wyndham Access. The 8 are alleged to be 8 Shell Affiliates. Another Resort was saying that Shell Availability will only be available to Club Wyndham Access owners and only Access owner points can be used if non Access deeds are owned. Different stories have different points of view pertaining to Shell, the most aggressive I have heard is not dissimilar to yours other than the ARP crack. That is all Shell Resorts will be part of Wyndham Club Access by the end of the year.

For what it is worth, I checked within the last few days with Wyndham Corporate, and they are not confirming that any Shell Properties are coming on board.

As for the other points your made reference to if specifics are given on the bad things that are coming for existing owners that do not buy a new contract, please post these as warning for others so more accurate responses can be provided.

Please provide the name of the resort pushing the Shell Access and expanded ARP rights. If anyone buys more Club Wyndham Access based on the availability to the Shell and Worldmark systems or the expanded ARP rights, be sure to get it writing (that probably will not happen).

My guess is that what was being talked about was the upcoming access to WorldMark through the Wyndham Club Pass program. If the Shell chatter materializes, other than the exception of the eight Shell Affiliates, that probably would also be through the Club Pass System.

Variations of what appears to be the new sales pitch of "One Company" appears to be spreading or variations of it.

For what it is worth, you appear to have labeled, like me, a "old Fairfield Owner". That is probably where the stories of bad things to come for this group are coming from.

Are the bad things coming? Who knows the way this ball is bouncing.

 

[lcml11]

Thank you for checking with Wyndham Corp. about the Shell company. The property where I went to the presentation was the Flagstaff property - a great property. Yes, I am "an old Fairfield Owner" both of my properties were Fairfield Deeds one in Vegas and the other in Texas. In 2010 the Wisconsin Dells people were awful, wanting me to upgrade my deeded property because of an audit that was coming. To not do so my maintenance fees would go up $150.00 a month. I didn't see it happen.

The recent presentation that I attended was at Flagstaff, AZ. I was assured that if I used my deeds and traded them along with the purchase of 105,000 pts. in a trust deed then I would be an owner of all the CWA properties and have access to the World Mark and Shell properties that I can not get now as a Wyndham Club Plus VIP Gold member. As I look back I am thinking the whole pitch was to try and get me to the Platinum Level but I am to sure.

Thanks for the update. To the extent that one of the sales approaches is to move people to Platinum and beyond in purchases is the incremental approach. This process starts as low as a discovery package if they need to start there.

When this day is done, I think us "Old Fairfield Owners" will be way ahead. Developer Points or re-sale points. Or any combination of thereof. I do not know the current rules or practices, however, I think a number of Posters on older threads say that if a VIP Owner buys a re-sale contract, they get their VIP discount for the contract involved. They just would not count towards increasing the level.

For what re-sale contracts are still selling at, if this is true, maybe consider going that way and just sell the re-sale contract if they quit giving the discounts for it.

Another way you might get Shell reservations as a VIP Owner would be Marketplaces exchanges. Offer to exchange a 60 day or under Wyndham Club Plus reservation for a Shell reservation. The Shell person could get a great Wyndham Club Resort with a free upgrade for one of their Shell weeks. I suspect there are a number of rentor bees that frequent this site are conversant on the good old fashion barter system. I think there would be more than a quarter in the deal for them.

Heck, some of them of them on the Shell side of the house might even use it for their own visit to a resort they are looking to add to their inventory.

Apparently the whole or better part of the WorldMark resorts will shortly be available to you for a fee and no VIP discount on the points needed to use the new Wyndham Club Pass program. That is a whole lot of exchanges for what it would cost for the new points they would sell you.