Closing company never paid maintenance fees

[Denkro]

I purchased a Pahio Sheerwater week in March of 2014. I paid purchase price, closing fees, transfer fees and 2014 maintenance fees ( 2014 was available for me to use). These were paid 3-19-14. Closing went through in approx 4 weeks. All seemed fine until I went to reserve my week. Wyndham said I could not make a reservation because maintenance fees were not paid. They said they would look into it to see if they went to another account. Time passed and when I called back, they said they have no record of payment and that I should get a copy of the check so they could research it. They said if it was their error they would make it right if I was not able to use my week for 2014. After numerous calls and emails to the closing company they finally said they made the error and would pay the fees. This was almost December and now I cannot use my week. Maintenance fees were $1,400. The closing company has since paid 2014 but said they are not going to pay for the lost week. Wyndham says it is not their fault, which I totally understand. They did nothing wrong. The closing company says take it up with the seller, which I can't get in touch with through ebay because it has been more that 90 days. What would you do?

 

[DeniseM]

What closing company? What seller?

Most of the big ebay sellers use an affiliated closing company - actually, it's usually done in-house.

*You should still be able to get a week to deposit from Wyndham.

 

[UWSurfer]

This is fairly typical of the resales I've purchased over the years, particularly via ebay sellers.

I've simply paid them to whomever is managing the property and moved on. Now admittedly they've never been $1400 (usually half as much or less), and I've not purchased a property for several years, but when it occurrs I chalk it up as the cost of purchasing a property on the cheap, feel a little cheated and move on.

 

[csxjohn]

.... After numerous calls and emails to the closing company they finally said they made the error and would pay the fees. This was almost December and now I cannot use my week. Maintenance fees were $1,400. The closing company has since paid 2014 but said they are not going to pay for the lost week. ...?

I would pressure the closing company, they admitted the error and now you can't use the unit. I'm not sure why you waited until Dec to get this done but never the less they are at fault.

Closing companies are licensed and suggesting you will go to the state AG's office to see what they have to say about it may get you some results.

 

[DaveNV]

I had this happen once with an eBay purchase. I contacted the closing company to tell them the issue, they contacted Wyndham, and all was straightened out in about five minutes.

Dave

 

[comicbookman]

I would pressure the closing company, they admitted the error and now you can't use the unit. I'm not sure why you waited until Dec to get this done but never the less they are at fault.

Closing companies are licensed and suggesting you will go to the state AG's office to see what they have to say about it may get you some results.

The closing company has admitted the error, so Wyndham and the seller have nothing to do with the problem. Since you are out $1400 worth of use, I would look into taking them to small claims court. Obviously the week of use is worth $1400 per year, since you have voluntarily agreed to pay that amount every year. so establishing the value of what their error robbed you of should not be difficult. They had a contractual and legal, obligation to pass the money on to wyndham at closing. That was one of their main jobs.

 

[Denkro]

Thanks for the reply. I have been dealing with this for probably 5 months. The closing companies customer service rep said they were going to pay 2014 and 2015 since it was their fault that I lost use of 2014. I was on the phone when they paid Wyndham and they told Wyndham that they were only paying 2014. Now they say that was all they can do.

 

[comicbookman]

That may be all they wish to do, but obviously they can do more.

 

[Denkro]

I have called 1 or 2 times a day for a while now. The owner is always in an "important meeting". The owner was the one that told me she talked with someone and they would not let her do anything else. Not sure who is telling the owner what to do.

 

[theo]

What would you do?

What I would do for starters would be to openly identify the closing company involved here. If the facts as presented are true and accurate, then that closing company was negligent at best and outright incompetent at worst. If nothing else, you'd give others fair warning and "food for thought". Also, the unwelcome exposure might just "inspire" the closing company to make things right with you --- via a check to you for $1,400 or payment to Wyndham of your 2015 maintenance fees on your behalf.
At least give them a good, clear reason and some real motivation to be a "hero" instead of a "zero" in this matter.

Question: What is the closing company's "motivation" to make this right if you just allow them to remain unnamed and anonymous in the shadows? Answer: None.

I disagree with the suggestion to initiate legal action. Time is money too and this is simply not at all worth going in that particular time consuming direction.

P.S. There is no point to "getting in touch with the seller", who is likely uninvolved and blameless. You paid your purchase funds and closing costs and 2014 fees to a closing company and the closing company then failed to relay your maintenance fees to Wyndham; a basic, fundamental responsibility in their processing this transfer. Accordingly, the seller has absolutely no responsibility or accountability for closing company negligence and ineptitude, unless of course this is one of those unfortunate eBay situations where the seller and the closing company are actually the very same people anyhow, merely wearing different hats for different parts of the transaction, collecting separate checks while wearing their different hats. With no closing company identity being revealed here in the first place, who could possibly know?

 

[DeniseM]

I agree with Theo - outting them on TUG can be quite effective.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Since you are out $1400 worth of use, I would look into taking them to small claims court.

Keep in mind small claims courts have very limited jurisdiction, typically where Defendant resides.

Also, typically limited to city, Town or County area..

Generally does not work when parties live in different states as very expensive for Plaintiff to travel, file forms, line up process server, etc.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

If they paid for the 2014 fees, I would leave it at that since you aren't really out anything. Start fresh in 2015 and move forward.

Thanks for the reply. I have been dealing with this for probably 5 months. The closing companies customer service rep said they were going to pay 2014 and 2015 since it was their fault that I lost use of 2014. I was on the phone when they paid Wyndham and they told Wyndham that they were only paying 2014. Now they say that was all they can do.

 

[Denkro]

I am out the $1,400 that I paid for 2014 use year that I could not use because they never paid Wyndham until it was too late to use it.

 

[SMHarman]

I am out the $1,400 that I paid for 2014 use year that I could not use because they never paid Wyndham until it was too late to use it.

But 2014 ain't over. Can't you deposit into an exchange company. Maybe some restrictions but you can recover some use.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

But 2014 ain't over. Can't you deposit into an exchange company. Maybe some restrictions but you can recover some use.

I totally agree. The OP should try to reserve anything that is available and then deposit it in II.

If there is nothing available, then the OP should contact Wyndham and request a replacement week. It is possible that they can deposit a replacement week on behalf of the OP. If Wyndham can deposit a replacement week, it will have a 2 year "life" after the original reservation date.

 

[Jason245]

Closing companies generally have to be licensed bonded and insured. I would immediatly do the following:

1. Send the company a fedex next day (signature required) letter stating that they need to pay you or whyndam the fees, penalties, interest ETC related to this within 5 business days or you will take the following action:

a) file a complaint against their state license (research and list the actual name of the agency), and against the escrow company and individuals specificatlly (this goes for everything).
b) file a complaint against any and all other licensing bodies or memberships (you need to research all the bodies). Get the names of the people you did business with and don't forget to go after those people individually in all complaints.
c) file a complaint with the Attorney general of their state and your state (if different)
d) file a complaint with the FTC, US Postal inspector office (Mail fraud/wire fraud is partially covered by them), the FBI, and the Secret service (I think they still handle money fraud matters).
E) file a complaint with the county that they do business in (county comissioners, to get their local business license revoked).
F) File complaints on any and all public forums including the BBB (if applicable), review web sites ETC. Contact Ebay directly and advise them that this company is engaging in fraud (this should help get them kicked off).
G) Take additional action up to and including a lawsuit.

Now for the kicker, Once the 5 days pass, file all those complaints and execute on the threat. you would be surprised as to how quickly this gets resolved thereafter.

 

[Talent312]

IMHO, if the OP is unable to reserve/deposit a 2014 week, the agency should pony up the cost of an equivilent 1-week stay, which is not necessarily the same as the MF.

This will date me... In 1991, Delta took over Pan Am's Euro-routes and was selling seats cheap ($280 for a RT to Rome)... I bought tickets online, but the travel agency "forgot" to issue the tickets. In those days, they mailed paper-tickets. By the time the issue came to light, the tickets cost considerably more... the agency agreed to eat the difference.



.

 

[SMHarman]

IMHO, if the OP is unable to reserve/deposit a 2014 week, the agency should pony up the cost of an equivilent 1-week stay, which is not necessarily the same as the MF.

This will date me... In 1991, Delta took over Pan Am's Euro-routes and was selling seats cheap ($280 for a RT to Rome)... I bought tickets online, but the travel agency "forgot" to issue the tickets. In those days, they mailed paper-tickets. By the time the issue came to light, the tickets cost considerably more... the agency agreed to eat the difference.



.

We who deal in control environments for a living call that operational risk and an operational loss event.

 

[Jason245]

We who deal in control environments for a living call that operational risk and an operational loss event.

Since the first COSO framework only came out in 1992 and this incident occured in 1991, it would probably be better called a operational screw up.

In today's environment, if this happened to a large company, and it was due to a design deficiency that was not previously identified (which is nuts since controls around this process would be second most important next to cash controls and it is very easy to implement detective and preventative controls around it), there would probably also be an unemployed director of IA and Operational Risk.

If you are talking about the 2014 issue, This is partially the OPs fault for not using an independent escrow company with sufficient transactional provisions in place to protect them during the transaction.

 

[theo]

Not necessarily...

<snip> This is partially the OPs fault for not using an independent escrow company with sufficient transactional provisions in place to protect them during the transaction.

I didn't actually see any information proffered within this thread which overtly indicated that an independent entity wasn't used, but perhaps it was and I missed it.
I would nonetheless still be inclined to believe that your unsubstantiated assumption is correct though.

That said, in many eBay purchases the buyer has no say in the choice of closing company and / or escrow entity. In many instances, it's simply a "take it or leave it" proposition. Personally, I would never take it and always leave it if faced with just those two options, but we're discussing the OP's current dilemma, not my preferences.

I still think that overtly "outing" this as yet unidentified closing company might go a long way towards lighting a fire under their *ss. TUG has thousands of readers, a great many of whom buy and sell timeshares quite often. Needless to say, not all unsolicited "exposure" is necessarily good "exposure". I'm not in business, but I sure know what I'd do if I was a principal in this as yet unidentified closing company and got widespread and unwelcome Internet exposure for such an incompetent and negligent failure in performing one of the (very few, I might add) procedures a closing company has to "get done and get done right" in the course of a timeshare transaction and transfer. I'd promptly make it right and just as promptly trumpet to the world that I had voluntarily (and contritely) done so.

 

[Jason245]

I didn't actually see any information proffered within this thread which overtly indicated that an independent entity wasn't used, but perhaps it was and I missed it.
I would nonetheless still be inclined to believe that your unsubstantiated assumption is correct though.

That said, in many eBay purchases the buyer has no say in the choice of closing company and / or escrow entity. In many instances, it's simply a "take it or leave it" proposition. Personally, I would never take it and always leave it if faced with just those two options, but we're discussing the OP's current dilemma, not my preferences.

I still think that overtly "outing" this as yet unidentified closing company might go a long way towards lighting a fire under their *ss. TUG has thousands of readers, a great many of whom buy and sell timeshares quite often. Needless to say, not all unsolicited "exposure" is necessarily good "exposure". I'm not in business, but I sure know what I'd do if I was a principal in this as yet unidentified closing company and got widespread and unwelcome Internet exposure for such an incompetent and negligent failure in performing one of the (very few, I might add) procedures a closing company has to "get done and get done right" in the course of a timeshare transaction and transfer. I'd promptly make it right and just as promptly trumpet to the world that I had voluntarily (and contritely) done so.

I admit, I made an assumption, but if the funds were held in escrow and there were provisions in place wherby they were not released from escrow until certain conditions were met (eg, a statement from the HOA showing all fees paid and current) this situation would not exist or if it did exist there would have been a much more expediant way to resolve the issue.

I never understand people who would spend thousands of dollars on a real estate transaction (via ebay) and just accept sending the money to the seller directly without at least getting their licensense information, bond information and ensuring that the provisions of the sales contract protect them should they end up in a dispute.


but what do I know.

 

[bogey21]

.I never understand people who would spend thousands of dollars on a real estate transaction (via ebay) and just accept sending the money to the seller directly without at least getting their licensense information, bond information and ensuring that the provisions of the sales contract protect them should they end up in a dispute.

I did just what you say I shouldn't maybe 20 times over the years and never had a problem that wasn't easily corrected. To each his own, I guess!

George

 

[theo]

Whoa...

I admit, I made an assumption, but if the funds were held in escrow and there were provisions in place wherby they were not released from escrow until certain conditions were met (eg, a statement from the HOA showing all fees paid and current) this situation would not exist or if it did exist there would have been a much more expediant way to resolve the issue.

I never understand people who would spend thousands of dollars on a real estate transaction (via ebay) and just accept sending the money to the seller directly without at least getting their licensense information, bond information and ensuring that the provisions of the sales contract protect them should they end up in a dispute.


but what do I know.

Not enough, maybe. We don't actually know anything at all here about what the OP actually spent on this purchase, now do we?

A Wyndham ownership could have been sold for $1.00 on eBay (...after all, Wyndham ownerships are frequently offered and available right here on TUG for free (...or almost free) on any given day of the week in the "Bargain Deals" forum.

Some people are simply willing to "roll the dice" on eBay in low cost timeshare transactions. I'm certainly not one of them and will never be one of them, but I can still understand and respect the thinking of someone who finds something they like and can use, being offered and available for peanuts in total initial "buy in" cost.

I appreciate and agree with your above observations regarding details of escrow services --- in an ideal world. However, to repeat a point already made earlier, in many eBay timeshare offerings there is often very little say (and even less substantive info provided) on or from or about the associated mandatory (I repeat, mandatory) closing entity. It might well be an incestuous "in house" arrangement where seller and closer might actually be the very same people, or at least (...ahem) "very closely associated". Faced with a "take it or leave it" choice on closing entity, some people simply choose to "take it", particularly if the risk involved is just a few hundred bucks in total. Sadly, there are sometimes unfortunate, unwelcome and totally unexpected later developments and consequences when competency and follow-through are both lacking in handling the important underlying details of properly completing a transaction and ownership transfer.

 

[Jason245]

We don't really know anything at all about what the OP actually spent on this purchase, do we?

A Wyndham ownership could have sold for $1.00, (plus closing costs and transfer fee) on eBay (...after all, they are frequently offered right here on TUG for free (or almost free) almost any day of the week in the "Bargain Deals" forum.

Some people are simply willing to "roll the dice" on eBay in low cost timeshare transactions. I'm certainly not one of them and will never be one of them, but I can still understand and respect the thinking of someone who finds something they like and can use, being offered for just a few hundred bucks total "buy in".

I appreciate and agree with your above observations regarding details of escrow services --- in an ideal world. However, to repeat a point already made earlier, in many eBay timeshare offerings there is often very little say (and even less substantive info provided) on or from or about the associated mandatory closing entity. It might well be an incestuous "in house" arrangement where seller and closer might actually be the very same people, or at least (...ahem) "very closely associated". Faced with a "take it or leave it" choice on closing entity, some people choose to "take it", particularly if the total risk is just a few hundred bucks. Sadly, there are sometimes unfortunate, unwelcome and unexpected later developments and "unintended consequences" when competency and follow-through are both lacking in handling the important underlying details of properly completing a transaction and transfer.

I closed on a Timeshare a month ago from EBAY. My all in Cost was $0. I paid nothing to closing or seller. In that instance, I was 100% fine without having any protections except for an explicit statement stating that they were current on their fees and an estopple letter showing it. If I was expected to pay maintenance, I would have either :

A) contacted the resort directly and verified that the payment was received by them and then reimbursed the seller for those fees.

B) made the payment directly to the resort as soon as closing occured and I had a valid and acknowledged title.

but then I am crazy like that.