CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[wjarcher]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

 

[DanCali]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

This is indeed valuable insight that will probably make many people on these board happy!

 

[dioxide45]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

If accurate, I wonder if they will change that 8/9 date to whatever other date becomes their actual rollout date to owners.

 

[Red elephant]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

This is indeed interesting . WKV is mandatory but the allocated abound points does not make it worth it. Same with SVV . The WORKV is the only mandatory resort that is worth converting to abound and that’s the one Marriott wants so it makes sense to allow mandatory resorts to be able to convert to abound.

 

[kozykritter]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

In writing from whom? In what context was this document created? As we know from this thread, sales offices present all kinds of materials purporting to be the truth about what will happen and yet on the whole, several of these things contradict each other. I think I have PTSD from all of it

 

[pacman777]

If accurate, I wonder if they will change that 8/9 date to whatever other date becomes their actual rollout date to owners.

interesting. There was a period when Westin Kierland 148.1k we’re getting snatched up earlier this year. Wonder if insiders knew about that. It seems to have cooled with pricing back around $15k for resales. If the window is still open to be qualified for Abound then those will be the best resales to buy now

 

[Eric B]

Seems to me that there is decent value for the non-WKORV ownerships for being enrollment eligible to be able to rent points with the associated status even without the favorable MF per point basis — could open new opportunities without a concomitant MF obligation in the out years.

 

[DanCali]

Seems to me that there is decent value for the non-WKORV ownerships for being enrollment eligible to be able to rent points with the associated status even without the favorable MF per point basis — could open new opportunities without a concomitant MF obligation in the out years.

The MFs are an annual obligation you pay no matter what under every usage alternative. So, it becomes irrelevant in comparing alternate uses in cases you don't occupy your VOI.

Renting out your week is an alternate use to electing points. So an Owner's decision to elect DC points should not be based on the MF/Points ratio but on the Rent/Points ratio and it should be compared to the cost of renting DC points from others (about $0.68).

WKV 2BR Plat Election value is 4050 DC Points
WKV 2BR Plat MF is about $1725 --> $0.43/point
WKV 2BR Plat rental value about $4500 --> $1.11/point

If you compare $0.43 to the $0.68 cost to rent points, you may be tempted to elect 4050 DC points. But why elect 4050 DC points worth $0.68 apiece if you can rent out your week (worth only 4050 points) at $1.11/point? Take the $4500 rental income, rent 4050 points from someone else, and keep $1700 in your pocket.

But being able to enroll WKV weeks, or any mandatory week, and then rent points from others opens up many new opportunities even to those who don't plan to ever elect points for their weeks.

 

[Eric B]

The MFs are an annual obligation you pay no matter what under every usage alternative. So, it becomes irrelevant in comparing alternate uses in cases you don't occupy your VOI.

Renting out your week is an alternate use to electing points. So an Owner's decision to elect DC points should not be based on the MF/Points ratio but on the Rent/Points ratio and it should be compared to the cost of renting DC points from others (about $0.68).

WKV 2BR Plat Election value is 4050 DC Points
WKV 2BR Plat MF is about $1725 --> $0.43/point
WKV 2BR Plat rental value about $4500 --> $1.11/point

If you compare $0.43 to the $0.68 cost to rent points, you may be tempted to elect 4050 DC points. But why elect 4050 DC points worth $0.68 apiece if you can rent out your week (worth only 4050 points) at $1.11/point? Take the $4500 rental income, rent 4050 points from someone else, and keep $1700 in your pocket.

But being able to enroll WKV weeks, or any mandatory week, and then rent points from others opens up many new opportunities even to those who don't plan to ever elect points for their weeks.

Think we’re aligned on that — I can rent my WSJ weeks out for more than the DC value, SVV is probably better in VSN, but I look forward to enrolling what I own for the simplified fee structure and the ability to rent additional points at a lower cost, if it works out that way, for any Marriott stays that are desirable.

 

[Jayco29D]

These are probably some naive questions. Why do people buy into a timeshare program to explicitly rent out their timeshare? Doesn’t that turn a vacation program into a business rather than something to enjoy?

 

[byeloe]

These are probably some naive questions. Why do people buy into a timeshare program to explicitly rent out their timeshare? Doesn’t that turn a vacation program into a business rather than something to enjoy?

To vacation for free

 

[Red elephant]

These are probably some naive questions. Why do people buy into a timeshare program to explicitly rent out their timeshare? Doesn’t that turn a vacation program into a business rather than something to enjoy?

My thoughts exactly . The comparisons should be based on the best uses of the timeshare but it seems like most here compare rental values vs values of using the timeshare effectively. It does help to know how you can rent your timeshare if you don’t use it.

 

[Eric B]

My thoughts exactly . The comparisons should be based on the best uses of the timeshare but it seems like most here compare rental values vs values of using the timeshare effectively. It does help to know how you can rent your timeshare if you don’t use it.

Different folks have different metrics to judge what the best uses are. Mine include replacement costs for use of a week by renting in or out, including associated advertising, commissions, etc. There are many instances where I come out ahead renting out a property I own (not just timeshares) rather than using all the rights I own myself. YMMV.

 

[dioxide45]

The truth is, Tuggers are far different than the average timeshare owner. Most Vistana owners will simply continue to use SOs unless they see a better value converting to Abound points. If a Vistana owner wants to go to a Marriott resort, the average user of the program is most likely to elect points and just book the Marriott resort. Not everyone wants the hassle, risk and extra expense of renting. Even if renting makes more sense.

I have seen it mentioned that with renting you can vacation for free. It kind of makes sense in that if you have two weeks at the same resort and you can rent one week out for double the MFs, then you use the rental proceeds to pay both fees. Thus you are vacationing for free. You could though use that money for something else and consider that free. Or you could do some other side hustle to make anough money to pay your MFs and then consider you are traveling for free. In the end it is just semantics...

 

[Red elephant]

Different folks have different metrics to judge what the best uses are. Mine include replacement costs for use of a week by renting in or out, including associated advertising, commissions, etc. There are many instances where I come out ahead renting out a property I own (not just timeshares) rather than using all the rights I own myself. YMMV.

you are quite right. The folks that are new to Tugg are still trying to learn the different ways to use and purchase timeshares. So it’s nice to read different perspectives on usage besides just renting to make more money or save money although who does not want that.

 

[jabberwocky]

I recently got to see something in writing about the Vistana election rules for the new program, please take it with a grain of salt because Marriott can still decide to tweak it before the new program launches.

* The election for the 2023 usage will start in October and last until the end of the year; My guess is that deadlines in future years will be in line with the existing MVC club members.

* Two types of ownerships are eligible: either ownership directly purchased from the developer or ownership that is enrolled in VSN when the program becomes effective. Specifically, unauthorized resale weeks (I interpret this as unrequaled resale mandatory weeks) that are enrolled in VSN as of 8/9 will be eligible. Anything after will require extra purchase to be eligible. It seems that Marriott considers 08/09 is the "effective" date for the new program, which also coincides their most-recent earning call.

This is consistent with what I’ve been told/shown with respect to our mandatory resale that is “unauthorized” and the total number of Abound points we are supposed to have.

 

[wjarcher]

In writing from whom? In what context was this document created? As we know from this thread, sales offices present all kinds of materials purporting to be the truth about what will happen and yet on the whole, several of these things contradict each other. I think I have PTSD from all of it

I don't see a scenario the sales guy would gain anything by sharing such information with me when I actually own 5 WKOVR/N resale weeks and they could ask me to spend more to requal them. As I said, take the information as a grain of salt. It is too late to act on it anyway.

 

[kozykritter]

I don't see a scenario the sales guy would gain anything by sharing such information with me when I actually own 5 WKOVR/N resale weeks and they could ask me to spend more to requal them. As I said, take the information as a grain of salt. It is too late to act on it anyway.

True but you didn't answer my question

 

[DanCali]

These are probably some naive questions. Why do people buy into a timeshare program to explicitly rent out their timeshare? Doesn’t that turn a vacation program into a business rather than something to enjoy?

It's not buying into the program to rent. Renting is a legitimate use and can help maximize the value of your ownership if you treat it as such.

To me, there are 3 different uses for a timeshare in a given usage year:

(1) Use where you own and book as home resort in a given year (not much explaining needed for this), or
(2) I don't have to vacation that year, so I will just book a desired week and rent it out, or
(3) I want to exchange to a different location. There are multiple ways to do it and they are not all equivalent. Some of these options can involve also rental transactions where you rent out your week and rent a week or Abound points from someone else.

Regarding Option (2) it's pretty straightforward but many VSN owners will now have a new option available - you can elect Abound points and rent those points out at around $0.68/point. This is just the approximate going rate and may be affected by supply and demand. If you own at a place with generous point allocation (like Maui), this can now be a pretty attractive option to those VSN owners. Rather than try to book a high demand week at 12 months out, advertise your week, deal with inquiries, contracts and the risk associated with renting a week - just transfer the points and you are done. 8200 DC points for a Maui OF week will easily get the owner over $5500 that way, which may even beat the rental value of the week. An OV or IV week can get the owner around $4200 this way, which may be slightly shy of the rental value of the week but is much easier to do.

If I wanted to exchange to a different location using 4050 DC points (Option (3) above), then as a WKV owner, I'd rather rent out my week as week and be on the other side of that DC point transaction, renting DC points from others. Then I can use those points to book where I want to go. By employing this type of strategy (take the $4500+ rental income, rent 4050 points from someone else, and keep $1700+ in my pocket) I can save $1700 per 2BR Platinum lockoff, which is basically the full cost of my MFs. Yes, just electing 4050 DC points for my week is easier, but the cost of that convenience is too high for my taste. I do have some enrolled Marriott weeks that I am happy to elect points for because the math there works more similar to the SVN Maui weeks.

 

[Jayco29D]

In reading through TUG, I see that many people own way more timeshares that they could ever use in a year. I assume these people have little choice but to rent to cover their costs. I really do not understand why people buy more than they can use unless they consider renting timeshares to be a part time job. But who wants a part time job of renting timeshares? I don’t understand why anyone would do this. Why not keep life simple and use timeshares for vacationing? I understand if someone can‘t use a week or points in an average year and they want to cover MFs rather than lose their week/points. This makes perfect sense. I sort of understand why someone might end up making the rental of timeshares into a side gig on purpose (although this seems rather risky unless they stay on top of each week and it also seems like a strange job). But people who are in between? Why do they buy much more than they can use?

 

[DanCali]

But people who are in between? Why do they buy much more than they can use?

Perhaps wishful retirement planning?

 

[remowidget]

In reading through TUG, I see that many people own way more timeshares that they could ever use in a year.

I think most of the people in this boat on the Tug have purchased them through resale at a low cost.

I've met several people who have more than they can use and still buy more at retail. They just have a lot of money and convert what they don't use to points to stay in hotels. They don't really care about value the way people on the Tug do.

Last year, I talked quite a bit with a couple who were using their ownership for the first time to stay in a villa. They had been Five star owners for well over a decade. They had always converted their time to points and stayed in hotels on business travel. They were on the verge of retiring and trying to decide what to do with the timeshares. They also owned 5 or 6 properties in desirable places in the US and Europe. They rented them out on VRBO when they weren't there.

Another 5 star guy I met used most of his time for hotels for his employees thinking he would use his time in villas when he retired.

 

[DavidnRobin]

These are probably some naive questions. Why do people buy into a timeshare program to explicitly rent out their timeshare? Doesn’t that turn a vacation program into a business rather than something to enjoy?

To help offset our high MFs.
For example - we rent out our WKORV OFD studio side (~$2800 of ~$3500 total) to lower the cost of the OFD 1Bd side to ~$100/nt.
(hard to beat)

Rentability (for MF and higher) is a key decision when buying a resale Vistana interval. Our WKV Plat VOIs have paid for themselves.

Sorry - just realized this is tangential to the OP.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[samcar1]

Question. I’ve rented on redweek a few times with luck. I have 2 weeks (separate) to rent next year at steamboat but no bites yet. I’m Sure they will be but I’d love to know if there are other places I can also try and rent my weeks.
I also have been reading a lot about selling options, How would that work? Thank you

 

[teddyo333]

We own quite a few timeshares. They were purchased because we plan to stay in these places to esacpe the harsh winters in the northeast when we retire. We rent most of them now to offset the cost of our vacations each year. For example, the retail costs of our annual vacations can be as high as $36K but with the rentals it's closer to $3,600.