Charge back from Paypal for rental -- after renter checked in!

[learnalot]

Hi Judy,

I've been following this thread with your story. This is a horrible situation and I hope you get some resolution.

I was just wondering if you spoke to the renter on the phone before you completed the transaction with them? That usually helps me get a better feel for people. Just wondering. Thanks for sharing your story. Keep us posted. Everyone is pulling for you!

 

[Dave*H]

Locate a local bookie and give him a cut to send his collection thugs to the unit and secure payment.

 

[janej]

Thanks for sharing your story. I feel really bad for you. It reminded me of my recent dealing with Amazon A-Z guarantee. I sold a new netbook on Amazon. The buyer emailed me after 30 days saying he could not upgrade the memory. I called Amazon Seller support and was told I did not have to accept a return after 30 days. Then the buyer waited until just about 90 days to file an a-z claim. Amazon ruled against me immediately. I provided instruction for the buyer to send me back the netbook. I was afraid Amazon was going to give back his money without asking him to ship me back the netbook. Any ways, he never responded. The Amazon updated the claim to be denied after a few weeks. These big companies just want to take their share of money. They are so biased towards the buyers to get more business.

I now prefer personal check than Paypal when I rent my timeshare. No one had any problem with it so far. I guess the renters would feel more secure the check goes to a resident address. I don't sweat about getting the money immediately. If the renters change their mind before the money gets to me, they will most like change their mind even if they gave me the money. They will create hardship for me any ways. So it is easier not to take their money in the first place. If I don't have to pay to change the guest names, I even put the reservation under their name. Otherwise, I will not do that until I receive the fund. This method would not work for last minute reservation though.

 

[nazclk]

Cashiers Checks,

Well Theo it's this way, I own the unit, so I command how I am paid, if they do not like it, then can find another place to rent. Just like a couple of weeks ago someone wanted to buy a unit from me and use First American Title, I told them that I would sell the unit but not use First American as they screwed up a prior deal. They didn't buy so I sold it to someone else.

What if someone gets a batch of credit cards and goes free willy on vacation for about 4 or 5 months using the cards through pay pal, what a deal for crook ya.

Just out of curiousity, have you found people to balk or be offended at having to provide a cashier's check?

The practice seems like a darn good idea to me, so this is not a "criticism" of any sort; I'm just wondering how the requirement is generally received by your prospective renters.

 

[theo]

O.K.....

Well Theo it's this way, I own the unit, so I command how I am paid, if they do not like it, then can find another place to rent.

I didn't and don't dispute your position or viewpoint. I merely asked how the requirement for a cashier's check was received by prospective renters, as I have very little personal experience in the rental area on either side of such transactions.

 

[easyrider]

Yes, it happened once to me with a PP transaction. PP said the transaction was fraudulent and took the funds out of my account. When I contacted the person who sent the money she said her credit card had been stolen after she paid me. She had told the police and PP what transactions were authorized by her, but PP canceled ALL transactions, event the ones made by her. She just sent me payment again with a different card and all was fine. Perhaps this is what happened in your case? Have you tried to call the person who sent you the money (not the renter)?

Three of our credit cards were pulled by Bank of America for suspicious activity. All cards were re-issued new numbers. I could see how the above senerio could happen.
I like personal checks with the renters name on it and a matching signature on the rental agreement and check.

 

[BocaBum99]

Three of our credit cards were pulled by Bank of America for suspicious activity. All cards were re-issued new numbers. I could see how the above senerio could happen.
I like personal checks with the renters name on it and a matching signature on the rental agreement and check.

Personal checks work surprisingly well. The thing that surprised me the most is how many people would actually send such a check. I only had a few issues with personal checks. First is when you get to a certain volume, you get tired of going to the bank to make deposits. And, there is a check clearing problem when the check in date is within 2 weeks from time of rental.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I ask for personal checks if more than 2-3 months from checkin. I do cashier's checks from their bank or USPS money orders. Yes, I run to THAT bank often - but it is 1/2 mile from my house.

Paypal - for those last minute deals. I will be more careful on matching names on rental agreements, guest certificates and payment - in the future ... as not doing that can be expensive.

Most people don't ask to pay via credit card. Some early bookers will pay with a bank draft check and I assume it is to keep their personal bank account info private (3-6 months out - do I care?).

I appreciate this type of discussion on TUG, as it is a great learning tool against scammers and a particular big business. Thanks to all.

 

[california-bighorn]

.... I only had a few issues with personal checks. First is when you get to a certain volume, you get tired of going to the bank to make deposits........

Now you can scan or even photograph checks with your phone and send electronically for deposit to many banks and credit unions. My CU just started this service and I haven't tried it yet, but, it looks easy enough to do.

 

[MichaelColey]

Now you can scan or even photograph checks with your phone and send electronically for deposit to many banks and credit unions. My CU just started this service and I haven't tried it yet, but, it looks easy enough to do.

I've done this with Chase through their iPhone app, but it's limited to $1k per day and $3k per month, so depending on the volume and check sizes, it might or might not be helpful.

 

[BocaBum99]

I didn't and don't dispute your position or viewpoint. I merely asked how the requirement for a cashier's check was received by prospective renters, as I have very little personal experience in the rental area on either side of such transactions.

By requiring a cashier's check, you reduce the available market and you incur a higher risk. It doesn't mean it won't work. It just means it may take longer to rent or you have a higher chance of getting burned than via other methods of payment.

 

[boyblue]

I have spoken to JudyS and I'll let her share as much info as she likes but just so you guys know we have spoken.

 

[AFARR]

Boyblue...

Thanks for the update.....

I think a lot of us are interested in the outcome of this case. I may rent a week down the road and want to see the outcome (hopefully be a good outcome).

AFARR

 

[Stefa]

I think a lot of us are interested in the outcome of this case. I may rent a week down the road and want to see the outcome (hopefully be a good outcome).

It seems like no payment method is 100% fraud proof. Your best bet would be to put your week up for rent as soon as you know you won't be using it. The closer to check-in the payment is received the greater the risk of something like this happening.

 

[catcher24]

It seems like no payment method is 100% fraud proof. Your best bet would be to put your week up for rent as soon as you know you won't be using it. The closer to check-in the payment is received the greater the risk of something like this happening.

That's a good idea. I believe that many resorts will also rent the week for you (mine will if I want them to) and then they're the ones who receive and verify payment. Of course then they take a generous share of the rental fee for the "privilege" of renting the week for you. However, this wasn't Judy's own week to begin with, so perhaps there wasn't a lot of advance time to rent the unit. I just hope things work out well for her.

 

[Brerrabbit]

I ask for personal checks if more than 2-3 months from checkin. I do cashier's checks from their bank or USPS money orders.

A lot of people aren't aware of this, but one thing that is very handy about USPS money orders is that you can cash them at any post office. Provided that they have enough cash in the drawer, and they will probably want to see a driver's license or other ID. But they put the money order number into their computer and can tell on the spot if it is a valid one before cashing it.

 

[lotus5]

By requiring a cashier's check, you reduce the available market and you incur a higher risk. It doesn't mean it won't work. It just means it may take longer to rent or you have a higher chance of getting burned than via other methods of payment.

Personally, I would rather receive funds via PayPal than a "Cashier's Check" as there are lots of phony/counterfeit cashier's checks and traveller's checks floating around. I have been dealing with PayPal for many years and have yet to loose a penny. You just take your chances with just about any kind of payment even if you make phone calls to confirm. Just do as much do-dilligence as you can. Although it's still painful, hundreds is better than thousands......

 

[Laverner]

Wait for the Check to Clear

Sorry for your difficulty! This is a good lesson for me and a bad one for you. In any case, it demonstrates that a check directly to you (even a cashier's check!) should not be cashed until the bank indicates that it is valid. The same goes for PayPal, I guess, even though it would appear that they should not have paid you until Mr. "Jones" check cleared their bank.

The only protection you have is that letter of occupancy you sent, unfortunately, to Mr. "Jones." In terms of good advice, hold that letter until everything has cleared even PayPal. I would probably have done the same as you but NOT NOW!

 

[vacationhopeful]

A lot of people aren't aware of this, but one thing that is very handy about USPS money orders is that you can cash them at any post office. Provided that they have enough cash in the drawer, and they will probably want to see a driver's license or other ID. But they put the money order number into their computer and can tell on the spot if it is a valid one before cashing it.

Yes and have cashed more than one of them at the post office - which is why I perfer USPS money orders. Also, if someone counterfeits USPS money order, the Postal Inspectors get involved. Their type of investigation goes across state lines as well as there charges.

 

[gingerbread2]

Charge back from Paypal

Hope today brings good news.I am always so cautious renting out of the 52 states. We have no or little recourse if things go wrong.

May I ask ?How many days did it take Paypal to inform you of the false credit card ?Paypal should have been able to know relatively soon that the transaction was a fraud.
I agree,this may be a new way of scamming all of us.Just whom do we trust anymore?Can't count on checks,cashier checks,money orders and now Paypal!!!! For very expensive transactions,one could use an escrow company but they take their share
I will admit,I find some value in speaking with my renter over the phone.
Good luck today
Gingerbread

 

[theo]

See post #1...

May I ask? How many days did it take Paypal to inform you of the false credit card ?

OP (JudyS) clearly stated in post #1 that her payment was initially received via PayPal on November 4 and specified that Paypal notification to her of fraudulent payment occured on November 21, the check-in date.

 

[AFARR]

I'm a shooter..

and have bought & sold some fairly expensive items (firearms and accessories) via the internet (for those not familiar with the Law...firearms have to be shipped to a dealer for me to purchase them...so you are paying in many cases an individual, and hoping they ship properly to the Dealer...and the item may or may not be in the condition described). I have yet (knock on wood) to be ripped off, and my buyers are generally happy with what they get.

The general rule of thumb in internet transactions is 'if you're not sure about the deal...walk away'. If you have a funny feeling that the buyer or seller isn't quite right...walk away. If the buyer/seller makes questionable demands...walk away. The buyer/seller does need some way to protect themselves to be sure they aren't buying just a picture on the internet rather than a real item...so there are some reasonable demands they should be able to make (more pictures, a 'return policy').

As mentioned above USPS Money Orders are often the standard for transactions...they are (relatively) secure....if someone makes a false claim, I don't expect the postal inspectors to drop everything and go after them, but if they do it frequently...then they will likely get caught.

Sounds like the same rules apply to the rental of TS units.

AFARR

 

[BocaBum99]

Hope today brings good news.I am always so cautious renting out of the 52 states. We have no or little recourse if things go wrong.

May I ask ?How many days did it take Paypal to inform you of the false credit card ?Paypal should have been able to know relatively soon that the transaction was a fraud.
I agree,this may be a new way of scamming all of us.Just whom do we trust anymore?Can't count on checks,cashier checks,money orders and now Paypal!!!! For very expensive transactions,one could use an escrow company but they take their share
I will admit,I find some value in speaking with my renter over the phone.
Good luck today
Gingerbread

I thought their were 57. LOL.

 

[BocaBum99]

Yes and have cashed more than one of them at the post office - which is why I perfer USPS money orders. Also, if someone counterfeits USPS money order, the Postal Inspectors get involved. Their type of investigation goes across state lines as well as there charges.

Back when I was accepting mostly checks, I would get a lot of Canadian renters who didn't have a US bank account. So, I had them get a postal money order in US dollars from Canada. Worked like a charm.

 

[theo]

Geography question of the day...

I thought their were 57. LOL.

Nope....that's actually Heinz with the "57".
That said, I too would like to know the identities of the extra two states in the "52" cited.