• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Carlsbad Inn needs county lifeguards on the beach.

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
There needs to be a lifeguard stand out in front of CBI. There's no surfing allowed out there- as is posted at tower 33.
So, this guy was surfing out in front of the resort at about 4:45 today. The idiot took a wave all the way in to the kid zone and ditched his board right between my boys who were playing in the 2 ft. white wash. His board clocked my 7 year old on the head giving him a nice scratch/bruise and a knot. Had there been a lifeguard on duty in that vicinity, that guy would not have been allowed in the water with a surfboard in such close proximity to swimmers.

I clamored about this two years ago when I noticed inexperienced swimmers being swept up in rip tides, even wrote a letter to the city.
I used to be a lifeguard for US Ocean Safety in college, and we covered beaches that were FAR less populated than CBI's. The beach in front of the resort attracts a hefty crowd during the summer, and I would venture to say many, if not most, are inexperienced swimmers, and more susceptible to the dangers.
I asked a lifeguard by Seapointe why there are no lifeguards past the Tamarack. He told me it's city beach, and he's part of the county. He also said it's a HUGE liability.
He made the suggestion that if we ever want to see lifeguards posted there, the city needs to hear it.
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,784
Reaction score
10,697
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 3 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
Wow! That is so irresponsible! What did you say to the surfer?
 

ricoba

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,272
Reaction score
2
Location
Metro Los Angeles
This is the responsibilty of San Diego County or the City.

Beach Lifeguards are a municipal responsibility and not a resort responsibility.:eek:

I don't know anything about the beach in front of the resort, but it's San Diego County or Carlsbad that are responsible for beach safety.

Here in LA County we have a good lifeguard service. One time my son was rescued off Manhattan Beach, by the LA County guard. The guard was very helpful and let us know that there was a rip tide in that area, and it would be better if my son and the other kid we were with would swim in front of the lifeguard stand....which we did! :)
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
If there isn't a lifeguard, it would be better to go down to where Tamarack and the lifeguard station is, especially with kids. Yes, there should be a lifeguard, but if there isn't it, your best bet is to take the kids further down to where there is one. The ocean is just too dangerous, (even without flying surfboards).
Liz
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
Beach Lifeguards are a municipal responsibility and not a resort responsibility.:eek:
Did I say the Carlsbad Inn needs to provide lifeguards?


The county doesn't guard these beaches, and it's a liability. I've seen the guard from Tamarack come down as far as CBI doing his job, but it's not enough.
The job of the lifeguard on the beach is somewhat misunderstood. They are there to PREVENT mishap, to maintain a safe environment and to help. 99.9% of all people caught in a rip will make it in eventually-- a little tired, but they'll make it in. The lifeguard's job is to assist them, show them how to get in. The lifeguard redirects people or points out where the rip is. The lifeguard keeps kids away from in-shore holes and keep surfers away from kids.

I was a lifeguard for US Ocean Safety about 20 years ago. They were contracted by the county of Orange to guard county beaches.

The beach out in front of CBI is a public access beach and a popular one at that.
There are state beaches, county beaches and city beaches. In Orange County, these all have their own separate lifeguard companies. County beaches were not guarded for Years... until there was some liability called into question. I don't know the specifics, but somehow they were compelled to put lifeguards on all their beaches due to some litigation. San Diego County apparently has not reached this juncture yet. They likely will soon... swimmers and surfers don't mix well.
The county needs to hear from people... they need to know this is a problem.
 

UWSurfer

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
2,445
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Juristictions for lifeguard service are somewhat a mess in California. As I understand it (and I'm likely incorrect with some of this), all beaches in California are public beach. The boundries vary depending on whether the land abutting the tidal zone is private, local, county, state or federally owned, but generally most of the beaches in California are state beaches.

As such the state parks lifeguard service is the default agency for lifeguard services. Many municipalities operate the beaches under agreement from the state and again as a loose rule, if the city or county has developed the beach (parking, consessions, restrooms....) they typically are responsible for all aspects of the beach, including the lifeguards. In the 1970's, the cities of LA & Santa Monica contracted their ocean lifeguard operations to the county. Long Beach (which located in LA County) operates it's own lifeguard services to this day. The county lifeguard service has been kicked around a bit as funding sources change and is now part of the LA County fire department. LA County guards are very proactive and stress "preventions", interdicting with ocean users to prevent a rescue situation. Here's a link to LA County's Lifeguard service history...pretty interesting too: http://www.fire.lacounty.gov/Lifeguards/WhoIsHistoryByDecade.asp

A few years back under a budget/tax dispute with the state, LA county threatened to cease providing lifeguard services to "state" beaches which caused the state parks lifeguard service to scramble to have enough guards and equipment to cover the beaches.

Orange County largely contracted with US Ocean Safety (a private company) to provide guards and equipment for the beaches they cover.

San Diego City has it's own lifeguard service, and much of the beaches in North San Diego County are covered by the state parks service. I trust the guard you spoke with knows better who governs the CBI waters there.

As both a surfer and an open ocean swimmer my perspective shifts depending on which activity I'm involved in. As a swimmer I try my best to select entry and exit points away from active surfers to avoid getting hit. Similarly if there's swimmers or bathers already in the water, I will try to surf in an area away from them. The problem I have is when I'm surfing in an area where there are no swimmers and then a bunch of folks (bathers, swimmers, boogie boarders) just start hovering and playing in an area I already staked out. It is a safety issue. I work to avoid this, but others (both surfers and swimmers) either don't care or are clueless. I'm not in favor of black balling beaches (no surfing) where shared use can occur, but I do recognize the need for it from time to time. Much of the beaches in Santa Monica & Venice are open for surfing in the morning and then black balled by late morning as the bathers arrive.

I've been hit by boards and I've hit surfers with my board on occasion...neither of which are fun times for anyone.

I hope your kids are ok.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
All beaches in Hawaii are public, but many have no lifeguards. I know you were watching your kids and they were close to shore, but generally it would be easiest to take the kids to a guarded beach with clear areas separating surfers. It's just too dangerous for us swimmers.
Liz
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
All beaches in Hawaii are public, but many have no lifeguards. I know you were watching your kids and they were close to shore, but generally it would be easiest to take the kids to a guarded beach with clear areas separating surfers. It's just too dangerous for us swimmers.
Liz

The more popular public access beaches in Hawaii DO have lifeguards.
And, if I moved my kids, this would not change the fact that surfers and swimmers don't mix-- especially inexperienced swimmers and inexperienced surfers. It's a question neither you nor I can answer... but how many swimmers have been hit with a board in the past year? Is it their own fault for swimming and not noticing the surfer who entered after them?
My boys were playing in that surf ducking waves LONG before that surfer entered the water-- and it's a NO surfing zone.

The city covers the popular public access beaches-- in front of Tamarack down to the plant. In general, beaches that have a high attendance get lifeguards. The beaches in front of houses in more remote locations do not.

I'm all for personal responsibility and minimal government, as it seems that's where you're heading. If this were a traffic stop where they've had stop signs for years, would there ever be a justifiable time when signals could be rationalized in your mind? If this were a park where criminal actions take place regularly, could you justify a patrol car spending some time there every day?
There is a safety issue at this beach-- one that does NOT present itself 200 yards to the north where the beach is more private.
If you've not seen this beach lately, people are camped out 3-5 feet apart; it's difficult to navigate a path to the water. When I was a lifeguard, this sort draw would have been a busy day, and may have warranted two guards in the tower. And this attendance is a daily occurrence out by CBI in summer.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
Actually, I'm not a minimal government person at all and I agree that there SHOULD be a lifeguard at a popular beach, I was merely saying that as there currently isn't one, it would be safer for swimmers to swim where there is a lifeguard, as there is no one to monitor the no surfers rule, and also because swimming in the Pacific without a lifeguard can be very dangerous.
Liz
 

bugzapper

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
121
Reaction score
6
Location
Colorado
When surf boards are black-balled, are body boards permitted?
 

UWSurfer

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
2,445
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Usually body/boogie are permitted in S.Cal, although unlike the video you might see on TV, we're mostly talking about young kids catching the remiments of a wave which has already broken in less than 3' of water.

It will vary based on different locations.
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
I took three pictures at about 11 am yesterday.
The first pic shows a view looking down the City beach-- the beach with lifeguards.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27387754@N05/2744753382/
The second pic shows the view in front of the Tamarack-- not many beachgoers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27387754@N05/2743915547/
The third pic is a distant shot of the beach in front of the CBI (among other resorts, as I noted on my walk this morning.) It's hard to make out, but there are a lot more people there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27387754@N05/2744754336/

If you had a limited supply of lifeguards, and you were looking to place them in the most populous locations, by Far, the beach in front of the resorts would get one... it just doesn't make much sense that they don't have one there.
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
Also, something I found interesting on my walk this morning...
I walked to tower 11 in Oceanside from CBI. They have lifeguard stands all the way up to the border of Carlsbad. This means Oceanside has lifeguards guarding waters that are directly in front of homes-- not exactly easy public access beaches.
When you get to the border (pretty much where the lagoon feed starts) there are no lifeguards until Tamarack. This means there's a little over a mile of beach that has no lifeguards.
It's strange... lifeguard towers extend (by my estimate) about 1.5 miles south of the Oceanside pier, and they are manned by Oceanside Lifeguards. Then they just Stop.... there seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. The houses along the shore are still there; the people are still there (in fact, as stated before... there are places where there are significantly larger numbers of people) but the lifeguard stands cease to exist at the Carlsbad border.
It's almost like a case of the "haves" and the "have nots." It makes me wonder what would happen if there were a disparity in the income levels or ethnicity between the borders.
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
Actually, I'm not a minimal government person at all and I agree that there SHOULD be a lifeguard at a popular beach, I was merely saying that as there currently isn't one, it would be safer for swimmers to swim where there is a lifeguard, as there is no one to monitor the no surfers rule, and also because swimming in the Pacific without a lifeguard can be very dangerous.
Liz

Sorry.... part of the reason we come to CBI is the close proximity to the beach. It defeats some of that purpose for us to truck our stuff down to the Tamarack.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
I don't know who you could contact to file a liability report, whether it would be the resort, the city or someone else? Taking your concerns to the resort and to a city council meeting, might bring some results. Approaching it as a liability issue for the city, might get some action.

Interestingly, if there is an income disparity, it goes the other way. Oceanside is the blue collar, military town and Carlsbad the upper end.

Liz
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
I don't know who you could contact to file a liability report, whether it would be the resort, the city or someone else? Taking your concerns to the resort and to a city council meeting, might bring some results. Approaching it as a liability issue for the city, might get some action.

Interestingly, if there is an income disparity, it goes the other way. Oceanside is the blue collar, military town and Carlsbad the upper end.

Liz

Thanks... this is good advice. I'll act on it.
With the few at the resort that I've mentioned this too, there's strong desire for lifeguard coverage. I've pointed out the disparity in lifeguard coverage to the people working in the cabana, and both have had the same reaction-- "We NEED coverage over here."
You know, it's a small thing, but lifeguards provide first aid and information too... they'll tell you the ocean temp, tides times, advise you on safe zones or surf zone conditions (in-shore holes to avoid-- to which, there are a LOT in front of CBI this week, some deep enough to distress or drown inexperienced swimmers... and they lead to strong rip currents, and there is one out there now... I watched a swimmer last night struggle against it... he was a pretty strong swimmer, but he got a good workout.) Lifeguards give out band-aids, and sometimes help alleviate the pain of a stingray. They clear the surf of debris when it's dangerous (kelp can be dangerous) and they call emergency services when there are dire (or even unruly) situations in the water and on the sand.

I like the irony of the income disparity... that's why I point it out.

It would be nice if others could write about the need for lifeguard coverage here.
I'm going to take a few more pictures today of the beach out there. Maybe if the city or county see enough evidence, they'll be more inclined to act.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
I think those are all good ideas. To get something done you would need to document a problems (your own experience with your son is certainly an example of a potential serious problem), maybe see if the resort would keep a petition going for people who use that beach and see the need for lifeguard services, get pictures as you are doing, and research what municipal entity supplies lifeguard service and how the decision is made as to lifeguard tower placement.
Liz
 

skimble

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
878
Reaction score
45
Location
Murrieta, CA
Saturday, the in-shore holes were BAD... meaning the riptides were horrid.
At about 4:00, I saw a lifeguard running by me... then another. They went out into the water just north of the CBI beach area and cleared swimmers of a riptide. They went into a few other areas to warn kids about the in-shore holes, which they referred to as a "freaken Trench out there dude!"
I asked them about why there's no coverage... synically, they told me, there IS no coverage, and it's incredibly dangerous. They periodically make a trip in the vehicle down to this beach to clear dangerous situations or save a distressed swimmer, but it's a courtesy, not a commitment. They said they currently have a proposal in with the city to put in 3 lifeguard towers along this strand. But the city will nto act on it.
I told him I've been documenting a few things, and I've been taking pictures-- to which I have a few from yesterday that I'll upload tonight (showing just how crowded the beach is and showing the lifeguard unit there. Oh, I also got a picture of the riptide 15 minutes after they left and all the kids playing in it.)
The lifeguard unit made one more pass along the strand after they got back in their unit. They made an announcement over the bullhorn about the rip and the dangerous in-shore holes.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,095
Reaction score
2
Location
Wrightwood, CA
It sounds like this is already an ongoing battle and I'm sure you could help here. Possibly getting the HOA for Carlsbad Inn involved would help. Inquire at the city attorney's office about filing a liability claim for your son's injuries (even if you don't plan to do that).
Liz
 

UWSurfer

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
2,445
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
I don't really know where the city boundries lie between Carlsbad and Oceanside, but I'd bet it's basically right there at Oak Ave. When I look at the map on Google, it shows in a different color the Carlsbad STATE beach running from Oak South to the Lagoon past Tamarack.
 
Top