Canadian Tuggers / Healthcare in Canada

[gpurtz]

Hi,

This is not intended to invite political wrangling. Unfortunately, with news what it is today, it's difficult to sort fact from opinion. I'd really like to hear from Canadian Tuggers about their healthcare system...the good and the bad. Thanks.

 

[dioxide45]

Hi,

This is not intended to invite political wrangling. Unfortunately, with news what it is today, it's difficult to sort fact from opinion. I'd really like to hear from Canadian Tuggers about their healthcare system...the good and the bad. Thanks.

I don't think you can discuss this topic without it becoming political.

I grew up in Canada but now live in Ohio. While those in Canada know their system is not perfect, I know many would not trade it for what we have here in the USA.

In fact several years ago they had a TV show in Canada called the Greatest Canadian, the founder of medicare in Canada, Tommy Douglas, was voted the greatest Canadian. This goes to show how much they do like their system even with the flaws it does have.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I too am an Canadian living in Texas. So I will venture a few observations from personal, friends and family experiences. These are ONLY my opinions and my experiences and may not be reflective of every personal situation in Canada. Just wanted to give that warning.

There are good and bad things about the system.

For most routine issues it likely works just fine. When I was a student I ended up with nodes on my vocal cords after having larengytis for about 3 months. I saw the doctor, about month later I saw the specialist, made an appointment for surgery within about 3 weeks, then post surgery had speach therapy to learn to speak better and not stress my vocal cords. From start to finish about 3 months. Cost and paperwork ZERO. Now it was routine surgery with an ENT and I got lucky enough to pick up a cancellation.

That was several years ago and I think that doctor levels have dropped and waiting times have increased. But I am not there now, so I have no recent experiences.

It is when there are sudden symtoms and people want answer as quick as possible is when it becomes an issue. My friend's husband had a seizure, never had one before. They live in a smaller city which does not have every imaginable bells and whistle piece of medical equipment. Why, because with a Managed Health care system you optimize the expensive equipment in locations with the highest usage. Not every hospital or every city has every piece of hugely expensive equipment available. So for instance they needed an MIR. They had to travel a hour to a larger city to get an MIR done. They also had to wait. Too long, in my friend's opinion. They know someone and got the MIR in about a week. But as I said, it was too long for my friend who wanted an answer yesterday. Which of course is a response I understand. My family lives in a larger city that has a large concentation of medical facilities. There wait times and frustration for most routine matters are far less than my friends. But location is likely a major factor there.

In the US, nearly every hospital has EVERY piece of equipment, there is no waiting time for specialized tests or specialists. But in Canada it is a managed system so there is no real duplication of services, everything is working together, optimized over the system. In the US everyone is competing for business, and therefore has to match or beat the competition.

But at the same token, everything in the US is 3 - 4 times the cost of the same treatment in Canada. At least this was the cost difference when I had to have an emergency treatment when I first arrived. I did not yet have US healthcare, but my Canadian coverage was still in place. My Canadian coverage would refund my US costs, but only up to their levels of reasonable and customary. Their levels were 25% to 33% of what I actually paid in the US, so I was out of pocket 66 to 75% of what they charged me. Luckily it was not an extremely serious situation. Why the differences in price, Malpractice insurance in the US, administration & all the paperwork that goes with it (and more and more and more paperwork), and the increased costs of creating a competition with profits for a publicly traded company, as most health care systems and insurance providers are.

Now on the other hand competition is good for patients. It gives everyone everything they ever needed within minutes and at most within hours of when they need it. So that is what many like about the US system. However I think that also comes at a great increase in price.

I am sure others have horror situations, but my friends and family have not had that situation arise.

So how to create a system that has a pros of each, but at a balance of cost? That is the Trillion dollar question.

 

[BevL]

Well, here's a Canadian that lives in Canada.

First off, this could become political, but as we Canucks are a fairly laid back crew, it will hopefully not go down that road.

There are pros and cons as there are with every system. These are only my opinions and observations.

The pros are that everyone will get the treatment they require, whether they could afford to pay for it or not.

A few examples - when my dad was diagnosed with an aortic aneurism, he was booked for surgery within a few months. Excellent care, and he's fit as a fiddle today.

When my husband's kidney function tanked in December, the care was superb. When the decision was made that he needed to start on dialysis, he was in and had a required hernia repair and a catheter for peritoneal dialysis inserted within about eight weeks. Every single thing related to his renal care is paid for by the government.

There's no way we could have afforded to pay for those surgeries and hubby's ongoing renal care.

The downside is that, even if you could afford it, you can't pay for many medically necessary procedures. There are currently lawsuits launched by the government against some private clinics up here. So my sister-in-law, whose knee is giving her huge problems cannot pay for a surgeon to do a knee replacement, even if she could afford it. Her doctor is saying she's not bad enough to have it done through the public system. If she wanted to jump the line, so to speak, she'd need to go outside the country to do it. There are folks that do that.

I think for people who have good insurance, the U.S. system is better. For many who couldn't afford good insurance, the Canadian system is better.

My own personal thought is that there should be some merging of the two - require doctors (especially specialists) to practice a certain percentage of their time within the public system, but allow some privatization to "clear the lines" a bit. I also personally feel there should be a nominal charge of $20 per doctor's visit for those who can afford it to at least help somewhat alleviate the health care costs.

Again, I hope this doesn't get political, and again stress that these are strictly my observations and opinions.

 

[Passepartout]

Thanks, Bev and Sandy and all who provide their observations. As one US citizen who retired early and is now paying for insurance coverage entirely out of pocket, I am observing the ongoing debate with more than a little personal interest. You did a great job of keeping the discussion on observations and not on pointing fingers and laying blame.

May we all be granted Spock's wishes: "Live long and prosper".

Jim Ricks

 

[Ironwood]

Here's a link to some discussion on the pros and cons of a national health care system.


http://www.canadaspace.com/crwb.php?q=Pros+and+Cons+of+National+Health+Care

 

[Ubil]

Canadian Healthcare for Visitor

If I am visiting Canada on vacation and require unexpected and urgent healthcare, will it be free under the Canadian healthcare system, or do I need to make sure that my US-based insurance will cover it? If I understand the posts above, private healthcare is not available (or of questionable legality) in Canada.

 

[BevL]

If I am visiting Canada on vacation and require unexpected and urgent healthcare, will it be free under the Canadian healthcare system, or do I need to make sure that my US-based insurance will cover it? If I understand the posts above, private healthcare is not available (or of questionable legality) in Canada.

As a Canadian, I buy private insurance to cover me for trips to the U.S. It's actually included in private insurance that I buy that covers prescriptions, certain medical services not paid for by the government such as massage therapy and other things like that.

I also know that my brother had to have private insurance for his wife (a Brazilian national) until she was a landed immigrant here - the fact that he and his child had coverage under the government plan did not extend to her merely because she was in Canada.

I would suggest that you would need private insurance.

 

[Elan]

I also appreciate the input of the Canadian TUGgers on this sensitive issue. Hopefully we can all learn some of the pro's and con's of the Canadian system without the thread getting out of hand with personal opinions.

 

[dioxide45]

If I am visiting Canada on vacation and require unexpected and urgent healthcare, will it be free under the Canadian healthcare system, or do I need to make sure that my US-based insurance will cover it? If I understand the posts above, private healthcare is not available (or of questionable legality) in Canada.

The Canadian Healthcare system will not cover a non resident traveling in the country. You will need to make sure your US based insurance will cover you or you need to buy some type of travel insurance that will cover you while outside the US.

 

[Chrisky]

Hi,

This is not intended to invite political wrangling. Unfortunately, with news what it is today, it's difficult to sort fact from opinion. I'd really like to hear from Canadian Tuggers about their healthcare system...the good and the bad. Thanks.

Hello, another Canadian here. These are my experiences. I have a chronic condition that requires continuing Dr. checks every 3 - 6 months, which also involves blood tests and an occasional ultrasound or x-ray, or scan. All these appointments and tests are free (mind you we all contribute to our national health plan through our income tax). If I move, or for some reason don't like my present Dr. I can change, without having to get approval from any insurance company or government agency. Where some problems have come up is when patients need to be seen by a specialist, sometimes you might have to wait a few months for an appointment.
Another example - close friend suffered what turned out to be a minor stroke. He went to the local hospital emerg. was seen immediately and was given a variety of tests immediately. He was diagnosed that day, was given some medication, and was seen by his family Dr. within a day with regular follow-ups now every 2 months.
When we all reach 65, all of our medication is free, except for some newer ones, and even those, if the Dr. shows that the conventional medication has not helped, then we can get the newer ones.
When we travel out of country we purchase medical insurance to cover any mishaps.
For anyone visiting Canada, they need to have their own medical insurance. The hospitals and Drs. will expect payment and then the visitor will have to claim for payment from their own medical insurance.

 

[Chrisky]

If I understand the posts above, private healthcare is not available (or of questionable legality) in Canada.

There are some private clinics in Canada and the Province of Ontario that are legal. They have made some sort of agreement with the government. In Ontario, we can go to this clinic, have required procedure done, and it is paid by the government, we or our insurance company have to pay for the semi-private room.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

No Single Payer Proposal FOR U.S

I am glad there is interest in the canadian system. It is very important to understand that THERE IS NO PROPOSAL FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, CONGRESS, DEMOCRAT, OR REPUBLICAN for anything like the Canadian or european systems. That has been deemed a dead issue from the very beginning. It really doesn't matter what health care is like in canada or any other single payer system because the United States of America will not be getting that kind of system . I guess it is good to know if you are travelling there.

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

There are huge differences in the US between most HMO's and most PPO's. When I had an HMO and eventually needed back surgery, it was well over a year and to get an appt. with a neurosurgeon took 6 months. With my PPO, I find I can make appts. to see specialists much more rapidly doing it on my own rather than going through the referral process. My one experience with Canada is that in the last flu shot shortage I was not able to get a flu shot here. With some chronic health issues and being an elementary teacher that was a big, big concern. A friend and I flew to Vancouver on a cheap flight on Alaska Air and got our flu shot in the Vancouver Airport, no waiting and about $20 per shot.
Liz

 

[Elli]

Hello, another Canadian here. These are my experiences. I have a chronic condition that requires continuing Dr. checks every 3 - 6 months, which also involves blood tests and an occasional ultrasound or x-ray, or scan. All these appointments and tests are free (mind you we all contribute to our national health plan through our income tax). If I move, or for some reason don't like my present Dr. I can change, without having to get approval from any insurance company or government agency. Where some problems have come up is when patients need to be seen by a specialist, sometimes you might have to wait a few months for an appointment.
Another example - close friend suffered what turned out to be a minor stroke. He went to the local hospital emerg. was seen immediately and was given a variety of tests immediately. He was diagnosed that day, was given some medication, and was seen by his family Dr. within a day with regular follow-ups now every 2 months.
When we all reach 65, all of our medication is free, except for some newer ones, and even those, if the Dr. shows that the conventional medication has not helped, then we can get the newer ones.
When we travel out of country we purchase medical insurance to cover any mishaps.
For anyone visiting Canada, they need to have their own medical insurance. The hospitals and Drs. will expect payment and then the visitor will have to claim for payment from their own medical insurance.

Medication being free after you reach 65, does not apply to all provinces. I know this is the case in Ontario, but not in B.C., not sure about the other provinces.

 

[saf512]

As a Canadian healthcare worker I can’t help but think that most of our waiting times could drastically be decreased with patient accountability. If patients show up for their scheduled appointment, multiple appointments for same i.e. tests would not have to be booked. If a patient misses their appointment I feel they should be charged. Just my two sense.

 

[Htoo0]

Interesting. Guess I need to review my opinions of Canadian health care. My in-laws have several friends from Canada who have traveled to the States for care. (They can afford to.) My workplace has people come down from Canada as they built the equipment we operate. One present around last September was wearing a hernia belt and told us he was going to have to wait nearly a year for surgery. This was all before the latest debate about health care so I didn't really ask for details as to circumstances. But so far the above posts don't seem to indicate as severe a problem as I assumed.

 

[happymum]

When diagnosed with breast cancer 7 years ago, I considered going to the US for evaluation and treatment. Of particular concern was the possible delay for surgery and chemo. My surgeon convinced me that a delay of a few weeks would be irrelevant in something that had probably been growing for years. (Not the case with all cancers, obviously). In the end I chose to stay in the country for all of my treatment. I feel that the quality of care was equivalent to what I would have received elsewhere.
There are certainly times that I would choose to use an alternate (ie. quicker) system if available - but so far the occasion has not arisen.
As a side note it is interesting how many Canadian physicians now practise in the US and I have found it quite informative to hear their opinions on the relative systems.

 

[TSchmidt]

What are your income and property taxes like in order to pay for your health care? When we visited Quebec last year, we were told that your property taxes were 3%. Those of us from California would have a hard time with that one.

 

[Timeshare Von]

<<SNIPPED> A few examples - when my dad was diagnosed with an aortic aneurism, he was booked for surgery within a few months. Excellent care, and he's fit as a fiddle today.

And I guess that is as good an example as any why I fear that type of medical system here in the USA.

My dad had them . . . thrice . . . and was on the operating table within hours for the one (emergency surgery) and 48 hours for the second & third (scheduled because it wasn't an emergency yet).

Those things can burst without any advance notice. To way for "a few months" could be a death sentence for many.

 

[swift]

Thank you for being careful with your answers.

 

[spike]

see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

 

[AKE]

Also what is free in one province is not free in another AND if you even make a half decent wage you have to pay an extra tax in Ontario for health care every year (around $1000/person I think)...

Also, health care in Canada is not always transferrable between provinces. I live in Ottawa, Ontario which borders the province of Quebec. Because there is a shortage of doctors in the Quebec side, many residents of Quebec were coming to Ontario for treatment. Initially their health card was accepted 'at par' but no longer because each province has their own fee schedule (i.e. the amount that a doctor is reimbursed for a particular procedure), and Quebec's fee reimbursement was less than Ontario, (i.e. the Ontario government only got x% back from the Quebec government for each procedure where 'x ' is less than 100). As such, Quebec residents have to pay $$$ up front and then apply for reimbursement from their own provincial government and they will not get the full amount reimbursed.

 

[Pit]

As a side note it is interesting how many Canadian physicians now practise in the US and I have found it quite informative to hear their opinions on the relative systems.

Why are so many now practicing in the US? What type of comparisons do they make between the two systems?

 

[BevL]

Why are so many now practicing in the US? What type of comparisons do they make between the two systems?

Same as any other job, I would expect - private sector versus public sector = more dollars for the private practitioner.