Can you walk a point reservation?

[SueDonJ]

... Have you come across the rules for borrowing or banking points in the new system? I'd be interested to see how Marriott is going to work that compared to Disney and Wyndham.

From that same Reservation Procedures document (which I figured out you can't access, Twink):

D. Limitations on Banking and Borrowing. In limitation of any privileges afforded to Members pursuant to Sections III.E. and III.F. of these Exchange Procedures, the ability of Members to bank or borrow Exchange Points, including, without limitation, the number of Exchange Points that may be banked or borrowed at any time by Members and the number of banking and borrowing transactions that may occur for any given Use Year, may be limited by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Exchange Company also reserves the rights to suspend, terminate, or limit all banking and borrowing of Exchange Points at any time and to charge fees to Members for each banking or borrowing transaction conducted by the Members.

E. Banking Exchange Points. Exchange Points assigned to a Member for a given Use Year may be banked by the Member for use during the immediately following Use Year. If Exchange Points have been banked for use during a subsequent Use Year, the banked Exchange Points may only be used to make reservations during the Use Year for which the Exchange Points were banked and may not be withdrawn by the Member for use during any other Use Year. Failure to use Exchange Points during the Use Year for which they are banked will result in the expiration of those Exchange Points as set forth in Section III.B. of these Exchange Procedures.
Unless further restricted or limited as provided in Section III.D., a Member may bank the Member’s Exchange Points from twelve (12) months until six (6) months before the expiration date of such Exchange Points. Exchange Points may not be banked any less than six (6) months prior to their expiration date. Members must be current on all purchase money payments owed, if any, and all fees, dues, and other amounts owed by the Member to the Association and Exchange Company, if any, to be eligible to bank any Exchange Points. Banked Exchange Points may not be transferred and purposes for which banked Points may be used may be limited by Exchange Company from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion. Exchange Points transferred into a Member’s Holding Account and Single Use Points are not eligible for banking.

F. Borrowing Exchange Points. Unless restricted or limited as provided in Section III.D., a Member may use all or a portion of the Exchange Points that are due to be assigned to the Member for the immediately following Use Year to make reservations during the current Use Year. Exchange Points may be borrowed by a Member up to twelve (12) months prior to the Distribution of such Exchange Points to the Member. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used for a wait list reservation as set forth in these Exchange Procedures. In the event that a reservation request using borrowed Exchange Points is not confirmed, the borrowed Exchange Points must be utilized during the Use Year for which they were borrowed and will expire at the end of such Use Year as set forth in Section III.B. of these Exchange Procedures. A Member who desires to borrow Exchange Points may be required to remit an amount to be applied against the following year’s purchase money payments, maintenance fees, and ad valorem taxes, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion from time to time and such amounts shall be held in escrow as required by applicable law. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be banked for use in a subsequent Use Year. A Member may borrow Exchange Points in order to make an Advance Priority Reservation. Borrowed Exchange Points may not be transferred to other Members and purposes for which borrowed Points may be used may be limited by Exchange Company from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion. When an Exchange Member borrows Exchange Points, the Exchange Members will be deemed to have Deposited the Use Period designated by the Exchange Member with Exchange Company, and Exchange Company will automatically have all of such Exchange Member’s rights to reserve and use such Use Period for the given Use Year.

Do you see anything we should be happy with? Afraid of?

 

[SueDonJ]

Here is the language that was posted earlier in the thread:

If a reservation is modified prior to the first day of a confirmed Use Period to result in a shorter duration than would have been permitted at the time the reservation was made, any Exchange Points restored to the Member shall be placed into the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.

The question seems to be, would the cancellation result in a shorter duration than would have been permitted at the time the reservation is made? I am not sure exactlly how to apply that rule to this case.

{let's try again}

Are you thinking that, "... than would have been permitted at the time the reservation was made ..." means that walking isn't allowed, because the reservation window required to book the ultimate check-in date was not open at the time the reservation was made? IOW, it's okay to shorten a res by canceling back-end days, but not okay to cancel front-end days?

Hmmmmm. Could be, I think.

But if not, Premier Plus owners can pretty much book whatever their points will support and then cancel/re-book without penalty until the desired res is made. Any other owners can do the same - within their reservation windows - if they plan it out so that they either know they can make use of Holding Account points, and/or have excess points that allow them to book strings of more than 7 days.

I think. Gah, I will be One Happy Camper when this is all figured out.

 

[Twinkstarr]

From that same Reservation Procedures document (which I figured out you can't access, Twink):


Do you see anything we should be happy with? Afraid of?

Let me sit and read through the BS language.

Hopefully Marriott will write an owners manual for this someday, like Disney or Wyndham.

 

[SueDonJ]

Couldnt someone with enough points book many days, or even weeks, at a "cheapo" off season resort in advance of a desired week, at 13 months before the first check in day prior to 13 months before the desired reservation, and then at some point prior to 60 days before check in, cancel all of the front end days/ weeks, without having the points used to make the cancelled advance reservations go into the holding account?

Or am I misunderstanding something?

So far, hipslo, all of the reservation mechanisms available online that let us try to figure out what we could get, don't allow strings of different resorts. The reservation windows change with each change to the check-in days.

But we don't know if these same mechanisms will be the ones in effect on July 26th when we can start making Points reservations, do we? And we don't know if consecutive strings will be allowed if we call in instead of making reservations online?

(more questions added to the list ...)

 

[Twinkstarr]

From that same Reservation Procedures document (which I figured out you can't access, Twink):


Do you see anything we should be happy with? Afraid of?

It looks okay, somewhat similar to DVC. It's been awhile since I read all the official Disney docs.

The big thing with Disney is knowing when your banking window closes so you don't miss it.

I like the ability to bank/borrow points. For example we didn't go to Vero Beach this spring break(going to be going to HI in a 1 1/2 weeks for 17 days). I banked the points and was able to book one of the Beach Cottages(3br, true ocean front) for next year's trip!

I borrowed about 160 points from my SSR contract to book a Grand Villa for our Thanksgiving trip.

It gives you a lot of options imho, instead of just using this year, renting out or depositing into an exchange company.

 

[SueDonJ]

Let me sit and read through the BS language.

Hopefully Marriott will write an owners manual for this someday, like Disney or Wyndham.

BS language. :hysterical: To be fair, every timeshare system is required to release the legal mumbo-jumbo for their offerings. And the my-vacationclub.com website does have a lot of info aside from the docs - it's just that TUGgers know better than to not rely on the docs.

But you're right - it's a lot easier to read the plain-speaking manuals than this crap. I expect Marriott will have manuals for Points similar to their "Owner Reference Guide" and other slick publications for Weeks. I'm giving them time just like they're giving us time; we have through 12/31/10 to consider enrollment with the current prices and incentives.

(Marriott is taking a lot of heat for the way this has been rolled out but I'm not sure all of it is justified. It makes sense to me that they'd do rolling email and snail mail notifications because there is no way that their reps could handle the call volume if all 400K owners (or whatever the LARGE number is exactly) were notified during the same week. But they did the right thing by getting the website up and running first, so that as the info gets out there anybody who wants info NOW has access to it. We got our email yesterday and it said that a package will be in snail mail soon - probably that will be the usual introductory stuff. Then just like with purchasing Weeks, the easy-speak manual will come after enrollment/purchase. Makes sense to me. )

 

[Twinkstarr]

BS language. :hysterical: To be fair, every timeshare system is required to release the legal mumbo-jumbo for their offerings. And the my-vacationclub.com website does have a lot of info aside from the docs - it's just that TUGgers know better than to not rely on the docs.

But you're right - it's a lot easier to read the plain-speaking manuals than this crap. I expect Marriott will have manuals for Points similar to their "Owner Reference Guide" and other slick publications for Weeks. I'm giving them time just like they're giving us time; we have through 12/31/10 to consider enrollment with the current prices and incentives.

(Marriott is taking a lot of heat for the way this has been rolled out but I'm not sure all of it is justified. It makes sense to me that they'd do rolling email and snail mail notifications because there is no way that their reps could handle the call volume if all 400K owners (or whatever the LARGE number is exactly) were notified during the same week. But they did the right thing by getting the website up and running first, so that as the info gets out there anybody who wants info NOW has access to it. We got our email yesterday and it said that a package will be in snail mail soon - probably that will be the usual introductory stuff. Then just like with purchasing Weeks, the easy-speak manual will come after enrollment/purchase. Makes sense to me. )

With DVC you get the easy to read stuff first(ie how to use DVC in clear language) then the Fed Ex box shows up with all the legal paper work and the very nice DVC canvas bag.

While some of the docs are on letter size paper, the public offering statement is the size of a paperback with really tiny printing.

 

[hipslo]

{let's try again}

Are you thinking that, "... than would have been permitted at the time the reservation was made ..." means that walking isn't allowed, because the reservation window required to book the ultimate check-in date was not open at the time the reservation was made? IOW, it's okay to shorten a res by canceling back-end days, but not okay to cancel front-end days?

Hmmmmm. Could be, I think.

Yes, I think the language could be read that way, but I am really not sure if that is what it is intended to say (and I'm an attorney!)

I saw your other post that the 13 month window doesnt seem to work across different resorts/ stringing consecutive days together, for the later days at the second (third, etc) resort. That would be a change from the weeks system. So, if someone wanted to "island hop" at hawaii and wanted to reserve the whole trip 13 months out, they couldnt do so?

Guess we'll need to wait and see how a lot of this plays out in practice. I was told over the phone that you could string days together across different resorts at 13 months. But, it is clear that the reps don't know for sure about a lot of the details yet.

 

[Troopers]

It seems to already be prevented by the holding account.

Looking back at Sue's upthread post, this is only for changes resulting in shorter stays.

Generally speaking, walking a reservation doesn't result in a shorter stay.

So, the holding account doesn't apply????

 

[camachinist]

Unless the system allows for simultaneous deletions/additions, when one 'cancels' one day of a stay, even when 'adding' another at the end, for the briefest of moments the reservation indeed does result in a shorter stay, points are refunded for that cancelled day and then re-spent for the additional day. Whether that action triggers the 'holding account' or not, I have no idea.

In the airline world, we sometimes have to make 'double-bookings' to get around such issues. I don't know if the underlying reservation system here will allow that kind of functionality. As web interfaces, compared to MARSHA (Marriott's hotel system), the MVCI and II reservation systems seem a bit clunky. I don't know if that translates at the back end or not.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree, I think the reservation is considered "amended" regardless of whether the cancelled days on the front end are immediately re-booked on the back end.

When Premier Plus owners do this, though, because they're able to book 1+ day stays at the earliest possible booking window, it doesn't appear that the Points used for their cancelled days from the front end will go into a Holding Account. It appears the language could be interpreted to mean that they can immediately re-book the same Points.

Any other Points owner would be subject to the Holding Account restriction, unless they are trying to cancel/re-book within 60 days of the date of the re-booked days. But as indicated above, walking is generally used for high-demand periods and presumably there wouldn't be days available to re-book that close to the desired dates.

And of course, like Hipslo says, it's possible that the language could be interpreted in such a way that walking couldn't happen because the later check-in date of the walked reservation could not be booked on the day that the original reservation was made. If that's the case, though, wouldn't it mean that if a Points owner has enough excess points to book a string of ten days and then cancels the first however-many (thereby getting a jump on the res window AND regardless of whether the cancelled Points would go into a Holding Account) to end up with the desired less-than-10-day stay, then his/her entire res would be cancelled? (This is probably made more confusing by far too many words - can anyone figure out how to say it more clearly?)

Hooboy. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[m61376]

Or is it just an issue if the canceled day(s) result in a stay shorter than 7 days? So if one started with an 8 day reservation, then canceling and adding a day at a time wouldn't be an issue, and conceivably you could cancel and end up with 7 days at the end if you wanted, unless canceling any part results in canceling the whole reservation (which of course would be fairer overall).