Can we refuse to change room in the middle of week's stay?

[davidvel]

The reason I don't think the II unit code is the only metric in play is because I've seen these segmented reservations happen where all same-configuration units in a single resort have the same II code, i.e. at the Hilton Head resorts where I own. That's why I believe that, 1.) the system takes into account at the time of booking ALL metrics including the II code but also any other variables that result in Weeks breakage, such as enrolled Weeks being exchanged for DC Points and thus available to be booked by DC Members as single nights, and 2.) that the system will not allow requested intervals to be booked as a single reservation with a single confirmation number if multiple-unit breakage is necessary to fulfill the request.

I think that we need to remember that the reservation system that MVCI is using is still the Marriott International infrastructure.
...
Marriott hotels are all floating unit properties. YOu are never guaranteed a certain unit when making a Marriott.com reservation unless there is only one unit of that type at the property. It would make sense that Marriott International wouldn't program anything in to their reservation system to account for fixed weeks at MVCI properties.

While its only our (educated?) speculation without official explanation, my vote is with Sue on this. Given my experience with programming and databases, it seems like a long stretch that the reservation systems do not track all rooms at an individual level, with a unique identifier and all sorts of fields for various characteristics. (As opposed to just broad groups of room codes, like those we see.)

Even Marriott hotels have broad variance in characteristics by room type, including concierge level, multiple view categories, etc. Units also have to be marked if they are down for maintenance, refurbishment, etc. Additionally, it would be impossible to do any kind of inventory tracking (or an audit thereof) without a unique identifier for each room.

From a programming or just data input perspective, it should not be a difficult task to label fixed week/fixed units as such (and I assume they already have), and then reserve them according to only what is actually available.

More likely in my opinion is that they reserve for convenience reasons (as noted by Greg T), and hope that the local staff can smooth things over on a case by case basis, leading to this (relatively infrequent) problem.

 

[dioxide45]

While its only our (educated?) speculation without official explanation, my vote is with Sue on this. Given my experience with programming and databases, it seems like a long stretch that the reservation systems do not track all rooms at an individual level, with a unique identifier and all sorts of fields for various characteristics. (As opposed to just broad groups of room codes, like those we see.)

Even Marriott hotels have broad variance in characteristics by room type, including concierge level, multiple view categories, etc. Units also have to be marked if they are down for maintenance, refurbishment, etc. Additionally, it would be impossible to do any kind of inventory tracking (or an audit thereof) without a unique identifier for each room.

From a programming or just data input perspective, it should not be a difficult task to label fixed week/fixed units as such (and I assume they already have), and then reserve them according to only what is actually available.

More likely in my opinion is that they reserve for convenience reasons (as noted by Greg T), and hope that the local staff can smooth things over on a case by case basis, leading to this (relatively infrequent) problem.

I would expect there to be some type of unique inventory identifier within the reservation system. Though keep in mind that they can and do overbook hotels all the time. So just because there is a unique identifier, it doesn't mean that all reservations are tied to actual inventory, at least on the hotel side.

Just because there is a unique identifier for each record in the reservation system, it doesn't mean that there is anything there that indicates that the inventory is fixed week or fixed unit. Perhaps there is, but so far I am not seeing any proof of that. Fixed weeks make up less than .001% of all Marriott.com inventory. Would they have written something in to the system for that. Programming to something like this would not necessarily be an easy task, possible, but how much resource and money do you throw at such a small problem?

 

[SueDonJ]

I am not sure that the OP is entitled to stay in the unit they are currently in. That would infringe upon the actual fixed week fixed units deeded usage rights. The OP has no rights other than a reservation that they obtained through the MVC Exchange Company. They have no deeded rights at Grand Residence Lake Tahoe.

Perhaps they had an entitled right to a single stay in a single unit for all seven nights, but not that they are entitle to stay in the unit that they are currently in. A deed owners rights trump everything.

The property may be able to evict the guest, hotels have many more rights in evicting guests at hotels than a regular landlord would have with a tenant renting a home or an apartment long term. They don't usually have to go through the courts to evict someone.

I agree with you that at this point the resort GM has no choice but to move the OP if the Owner of the Fixed Week/Unit in which the OP has been placed shows up to use his/her ownership on the contracted check-in day. Not making Fixed Week/Unit intervals available to owners of record is, no doubt, an incorrect inventory control issue that would put MVW in legal jeopardy.

But IMO the same is true of the issue that this OP is facing, in which it appears that s/he wasn't placed into the unit that the reservation system allowed him/her to book. Like I said, I believe the situation has come about because a third person holding multiple confirmations for a multiple night stay was placed into the unit that the OP should have been placed, i.e. the unit that the OP will be moved to later this week, if the rooms controller had orchestrated unit placement correctly in conformance with the governing docs. This isn't a case of a single night of a Fixed Week/Unit interval being double-booked; it's a case of at least two non-Owners with multi-night booked stays (one holding a single confirmation and the other(s) holding multiple confirmations) being allowed to book breakage inventory not reserved by Owners.

The fact that an error has been made doesn't supersede the incoming Fixed Week/Unit Owner's rights, not by a long shot. But it does mean that this OP should have been advised of the ramifications of the placement error that's directly impacting him/her sooner than s/he was and by somebody higher up the food chain than a front desk rep. And IMO it does mean that the OP is entitled to compensation as well as a complete explanation of why/how this happened from someone at the exec level. The onsite GM explaining it simply as a result of the resort calendar being comprised of fixed weeks/units doesn't cut it, not when from all appearances the reservation system appears able to differentiate all other inventory sources according to both breakage availability and the need for separate confirmations when a unit change may be required.

Whether the system can or can't function that way I guess will be debated for all eternity on TUG unless MVW makes a public, official statement declaring exactly how the system should function. Pretty sure we all know that won't happen unless MVW is legally forced to make it happen. The problem I see is that if they don't do whatever needs to be done to prevent this from happening, it's a legal challenge that MVW could realistically lose.

 

[kds4]

A fixed unit/fixed week owner's usage rightfully trumps all other reservations, but an owner with a single confirmation number should be next in the room assignment pecking order.

Another very useful discussion to me as I am interested in visiting the Grand Residence/Ritz Carlton properties with my ownership. I will definitely factor fixed week/fixed unit considerations into our reservation planning.

 

[funtime]

Wyndham did the same thing to us and we refused

Wyndham screwed up and placed us in the wrong section. They kept calling our room indicating we had to move and we said no. This was irritating because I specifically asked for a lower level room with no stairs because of my dad's disability. We did not get that, so I did not want to haul our stuff up and down stairs again.

Actually if the manager had come to my room in person and asked us I would have moved. I would have asked for some type of compensation. However management lackies kept calling and pestering us and so I said no. Stayed in the "wrong" room the entire 7 days.

 

[Big Matt]

I think people are looking at this backwards. The owner is entitled to the unit, period, end of story. He owns it and has a deed to prove it.

Now, Marriott screwed up. It doesn't really matter how or why, the simple fact is that spottie is the unlikely person who happened to be in the owner's unit for seven days with the last day being one too many.

If I'm Marriott, I contact the owner and do whatever it takes to keep them happy. If that doesn't work, I work with spottie to make sure they are happy. Sounds like the GM is now starting this process.

I would: a) offer the owner something real valuable like show tickets, free dinner vouchers, etc., b) give spottie a free week the following year.

My guess is that the owner will be reasonable especially if they are staying for more than a week or two.

Spottie, just stay reasonable and get as much as you can for the inconvenience. You don't deserve this Marriott has the ability to make this right.

 

[dioxide45]

Whether the system can or can't function that way I guess will be debated for all eternity on TUG unless MVW makes a public, official statement declaring exactly how the system should function. Pretty sure we all know that won't happen unless MVW is legally forced to make it happen. The problem I see is that if they don't do whatever needs to be done to prevent this from happening, it's a legal challenge that MVW could realistically lose.

I would just be surprised that Marriott has somehow been able to solve for something that most every other points overlay system has been plagued with. It seems that other overlay systems have a disclaimer about mid week moves when a reservation crosses over a traditional checkin day. We know Wyndham is one, RCI points is another. Are there any others. Are there any that guaranty you will be in the same unit for the entire stay?

We may never know one way or the other how it all works unless we see Marriott come out with some official language in the Exchange Procedures, or they add a disclaimer as Greg predicts. Of course it is always fun to discuss and debate what we don't really know.

 

[davidvel]

We may never know one way or the other how it all works unless we see Marriott come out with some official language in the Exchange Procedures, or they add a disclaimer as Greg predicts. Of course it is always fun to discuss and debate what we don't really know.

Now you've gone and blown my day. I was sure "we" knew it all.

 

[GreenTea]

Apparently in Mexico they make you move for the owner also....didn't work out so well for the affluenza teen.....https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ture-of-affluenza-teen-ethan-couch/?tid=sm_fb

 

[SnowDogDad]

I have heard of one other incident at the Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe where someone was asked to move mid-stay. In that case, the person made the reservation and was TOLD in advance they would have to move. But, the person that made the reservation somehow thought it would all work out and they would not have to. But, they did.

I know it happens there very rarely, but it does. The GRC LT is Friday-to-Friday and Marriott's only has about 50% of the property in their rental program and about 15% of the property is in the Destinations land trust. So, at times, they are not able to accommodate the full length of the stay in a single unit.

However, a reservation 12 months out should have been properly aligned with units they had available.

If you have not yet had a satisfactory response from Marriott, stop by the front desk and ask to speak to the manager on duty or the property GM. Ask them how this could have happened to you given that you made a reservation so far in advance.

 

[spottie]

The GM called back today and told me that we do have to move. He said they would call us when the other room is ready to move in and said he would refund half of my Friday night points for the trouble. I asked him again how did this happen and if somebody else took our room instead? He said it was due to the fixed week at the resort and our Saturday check in days overlap the standard Friday to Friday check in.
He also told me that there were half dozen people in the same situation and had to move room this week as the resort was sold out. If that's true, Marriott really has a messed up reservation system for this resort. I wish I had known earlier and could have avoided the hassle. We actually flew in on Friday and stayed at Reno for a night. I could have booked Friday check in if I knew this problem at the time of the booking.

 

[dioxide45]

The GM called back today and told me that we do have to move. He said they would call us when the other room is ready to move in and said he would refund half of my Friday night points for the trouble. I asked him again how did this happen and if somebody else took our room instead? He said it was due to the fixed week at the resort and our Saturday check in days overlap the standard Friday to Friday check in.
He also told me that there were half dozen people in the same situation and had to move room this week as the resort was sold out. If that's true, Marriott really has a messed up reservation system for this resort. I wish I had known earlier and could have avoided the hassle. We actually flew in on Friday and stayed at Reno for a night. I could have booked Friday check in if I knew this problem at the time of the booking.

If what Sue suspects is true, I wouldn't expect the GM to admit that they screwed up and placed a guest with multiple reservation numbers in to a single unit that you should have been in.

You should have asked if the other half dozen people had a single confirmation number or multiple. Not sure if you would have gotten a straight answer? Is the GM calling from home or is he at the resort? I thought you indicated that the GM was off until January 4th?

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I would truly hold out for more than just points, I think the GM has the ability to help you and if they do not have that authority they need to elevate this to an executive who does have that power…good luck

We just checked in the Grand Residence Tahoe today. Upon check in, we were told that we have to change unit the last night of our 7 night stay, and it is not guaranteed the room is immediately available after we move out.
I was really upset upon hearing this. I had made the reservation for 7 nights more than 12 month in advance with 20% Destination point premium. During those 12 month, could they not have contacted me in advance to let me know this will happen? I have no desire to spend my New Year's day packing/unpacking and moving. Plus, I paid for 7 nights/days, if they do not make the unit immediately available, then am I losing half day of what I already paid for? Can I refuse to move? Who can I contact at Marriott to have this resolved if it can not be done locally here? (General manager won't be in till Monday. )
If anyone has experience dealing with similar situations, your advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[bnoble]

It seems that other overlay systems have a disclaimer about mid week moves when a reservation crosses over a traditional checkin day. We know Wyndham is one

At least with Wyndham, if you have a split reservation, it is made very obvious---including a doubling of the housekeeping credits required. Some resorts (e.g. Bonnet Creek) aren't overlaid on a regular Weeks ownership, and so at those it is relatively easy to stay in the same unit, but still not guaranteed. If you do stay in the same unit, the second set of housekeeping credits are refunded.

 

[Miss Marty]

Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe

We just checked in the Grand Residence Tahoe today. Upon check in, we were told that we have to change unit the last night of our 7 night stay, and it is not guaranteed the room is immediately available after we move out.
I was really upset upon hearing this. I had made the reservation for 7 nights more than 12 month in advance with 20% Destination point premium. During those 12 month, could they not have contacted me in advance to let me know this will happen? I have no desire to spend my New Year's day packing/unpacking and moving. Plus, I paid for 7 nights/days, if they do not make the unit immediately available, then am I losing half day of what I already paid for? Can I refuse to move? Who can I contact at Marriott to have this resolved if it can not be done locally here? (General manager won't be in till Monday. )
If anyone has experience dealing with similar situations, your advice is greatly appreciated!

http://www.marriottvacationclub.com/vacation-resorts/grand-residence-club-tahoe/overview.shtml

 

[Miss Marty]

Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe

This is a single 7-night reservation and
we were told an owner would be moving in.

We had booked reservations before at Mountainside when single 7-nights were not available and we had to make do with 2 reservations. When we checked in we requested to stay in the same room and they were not able to accommodate that. In that case, I did not mind the move as much because at the time of the reservation, I knew that was a possibility.

However, in the case of Grand Residence Tahoe, there were no indication that I will be expected to lose access to the room from 10 to 4 for a day at the time of the reservation.

I agree with Greg that it is the right thing to do for the owner. However, what I don't understand is that they have 12 month to potentially work this out. What makes them to think it is ok to sprang this at the time of checking-in, "or by the way, you have to move and we can not guarantee the next room is immediately available? "

To be fair, we have been Marriott owner for 12 years, and this is the first time I felt disappointed.

Other than the prospect of spending my New Year's day packing/unpacking and homeless for half a day the vacation has been great so far. The property is right next to the Heavenly gondola, the room seems larger than the regular Marriott timeshares.

I will see what will happen if I manage to talk to the GM tomorrow.

Heavenly Properties, LLC is the developer of
Marriott's Grand Residence Club, Lake Tahoe.

 

[Miss Marty]

Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe - Owners & Guests

I talked to the General Manager this morning, he said he would look into this and talk to the owner to see if and when they are coming in, so we might avoid the move. He said since it was the holiday week, most likely we would still need to move, he would make sure our move is as smooth as possible. He said the reason this happened was because this is a fixed week resort. We will see what they can come up with in the next few days.

For Grand Residence Tahoe, are they fixed unit as well as fixed week? Do the owner stay in the exact unit they bought into?

The 199 residences at Marriott Grand Residence Club, Lake Tahoe feature a selection of studios, one, two and three bedroom and penthouses floor plans ranging from 360 to 2,496 square feet of living space and sleeping up to 12 guests.

Q:

What size villa are you in?

How much does it cost for
Underground Valet Parking?

 

[Miss Marty]

Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe

The GM called back today and told me
that we do have to move.

He said they would call us when the other room is ready to move in and said he would refund half of my Friday night points for the trouble. I asked him again how did this happen and if somebody else took our room instead?

He said it was due to the fixed week at the resort and our Saturday check in days overlap the standard Friday to Friday check in.

He also told me that there were half dozen people in the same situation and had to move room this week as the resort was sold out. If that's true, Marriott really has a messed up reservation system for this resort.

I wish I had known earlier and could have avoided the hassle. We actually flew in on Friday and stayed at Reno for a night.
I could have booked Friday check in if I knew this problem at the time of the booking.

Be sure to submit your comments regarding
Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe to Trip Advisor
to inform others that it is possible they may
have to change villas in the middle of their stay
and to verify that they will not have to move.

 

[SueDonJ]

If this isn't a matter of the onsite rooms controller mis-allocating guests according to who is holding single- and multi-confirmations for multi-night reservations, i.e. if it's actually the IT system that isn't recognizing at the time of booking every Use Period which will require unit changes and as a result issuing separate confirmations for each segment, then this is a serious inventory control problem and not simply an inconvenience to guests.

Spottie, no doubt you've called enough attention to this that the GM is doing what he can for you (and hopefully, any of the other six guests who have to move and are also holding single confirmation numbers for their stays.) But in your shoes I'd say that his refund offer of a half-night's stay isn't enough, nevermind that it does nothing to involve executive level representatives in fixing the issue.

I appreciate that you've taken the time out of your vacation to let us know what's happening, and I hope that you'll take this further up the chain after you've returned home. Good luck.

 

[dioxide45]

I would truly hold out for more than just points, I think the GM has the ability to help you and if they do not have that authority they need to elevate this to an executive who does have that power…good luck

But in your shoes I'd say that his refund offer of a half-night's stay isn't enough, nevermind that it does nothing to involve executive level representatives in fixing the issue.

Half the points for Friday night is quite a few. Given that it is the holiday week, here is how any DC points each unit costs;

1BR - 1,425
2BR (sleeps 6) - 2,025
2BR (sleeps 8) - 2,225
3BR - 3,575

I don't know if the OP ever indicated the unit size they booked, but at a minimum they would get 700 DC points. That is worth about $350. Perhaps they could give them dinner vouchers or something else, but at this point, I would take the points as offered.

 

[spottie]

I will definitely submit a review to Trip Advisor. There was already an 1 star review from couple of days ago from someone who was also forced to move.

Be sure to submit your comments regarding
Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe to Trip Advisor
to inform others that it is possible they may
have to change villas in the middle of their stay
and to verify that they will not have to move.

 

[vikingsholm]

The answer to this should be pretty simple. The system should only allow any multiday points reservation, starting on any day of the week, to show availability until the upcoming Friday checkout day automatically.

Any desired reservations that extend beyond a Friday checkout should supply a note on the website reservations page prior to confirmation that warn the user that they may have to move rooms on Friday if staying beyond then (may have to, not will have to, because during low periods the room may easily remain available the following week). Then they can decide to whether to confirm under those conditions or change their dates. Marriott programmers need to get on this.

 

[Southerngirl528]

A fixed unit/fixed week owner's usage rightfully trumps all other reservations, but an owner with a single confirmation number should be next in the room assignment pecking order.

Another very useful discussion to me as I am interested in visiting the Grand Residence/Ritz Carlton properties with my ownership. I will definitely factor fixed week/fixed unit considerations into our reservation planning.

Absolutely agree with your first statement here, Kds4. Though I think it is very important to keep anyone with one rez number for their entire stay in one unit continuously, and much effort should be given to ensure this, someone that has laid down big bucks to purchase at that same resort, and had a deed to prove it should take precedent over non-owners IMHO.

I agree that more should be done to streamline the system since DC has changed the weeks only format. I know this much, I would NOT want to be the poor soul(s) that are the room assigners. That has to be a tough job...

 

[dioxide45]

I will definitely submit a review to Trip Advisor. There was already an 1 star review from couple of days ago from someone who was also forced to move.

The resort management seems to be pretty active in following up and responding to reviews on Trip Advisor. It will be interesting to see how they respond to that one star review.

 

[csxjohn]

I know that I would not leave that room until they have another one to put me in.