buy marriott only to exchange for points

[ca122]

Hi everyone,

I´ve been reading your posts for the past year or so and have the following question:

Does it make sense to buy 1 week of any property, for around $20000, 110,000 points per year and $800 in MF´s? I´m thinking in exchanging the week for points every to use them in Marriott travel packages...

Entry points are aprox. 150,000 I believe...

The reason why I´m asking is because from what I´ve understood here, points are now less valuable and harder to use than they were before...

Regards,
N

 

[BocaBum99]

No, you are better off just buying the Marriott travel packages directly and not forking out the upfront capital, the ongoing maintenance fees and the rising costs and liabilities. The best use of your timeshare ownership is for the accommodations it represents. Either use it, rent it or exchange it. Then, you will get the best overall value for your money.

There are ways to get good value out of programs that take your timeshare and give you non-accommodation products in return. However, even then, you get more value by simply using your timeshare rather than trading it in. Trading in timeshares should be viewed as options you take if the alternative is a week that will go vacant. Then, you are at least getting something for your maintenance fee payment rather than an empty room.

 

[KauaiMark]

I would say no...

For me, I would be hard pressed to make a case to justify buying JUST for exchanging for points. But there may be others that disagree.

 

[winger]

...Trading in timeshares should be viewed as options you take if the alternative is a week that will go vacant. Then, you are at least getting something for your maintenance fee payment rather than an empty room.

The only issue Boca, is that Marriott requires a member to deposit their week to exchange for points by Jan 1st of that current year, correct? So if one were to plan a trip for say Sept and in July finds out he cannot make it, then he would not have the opportunity to trade in for MR Pts.

 

[Bill4728]

Lets look at the numbers:

You can buy points from Marriott for $ 625 / 50K or $.0125/point. (But you'd still have your TS or your $20K)

Trading your ts for points would cost you $800 in MF and $104 to trade for points or $904 / 110K or $0.0082/pt. (This doesn't count having to buy for $20K instead of buying resale for $8K) Also this gets alot worse if you have high MF like Hawaii. $1500/ 125k pts or >$0.012 /pt

As the MFs goes up and the number of MR points required for rewards increase it becomes a much worse deal for the TS owner.

 

[laxmom]

I thought there was a rule dictating that you cannot trade for points every year. I thought you could only trade every other, or something along those lines. Does anyone else remember this? And also, as mentioned, you have to buy from the developer to even have this option at a much higher price than resale. IMO, I don't think this makes sense.

 

[Bill4728]

I thought there was a rule dictating that you cannot trade for points every year. I though you could only trade every other, or something along those lines.

Marriott can and does change this rule.

At NCV, the first owners could only get 110K points EOY but people buying today get 125K pts every year. (the old owners still get only 110K /EOY)

Please note I'm not an owner at NCV but I think this is the current data.

 

[laxmom]

Thanks, Bill. I guess both of my resorts have that rule as that was what we were told on both occasions. Yea, we bought developer before we found Tug. Next one will be resale.

I just haven't found the points thing to be a benefit. Have only used it once in 7 years and that was because we were given a free trip.

 

[tim]

I thought there was a rule dictating that you cannot trade for points every year. I thought you could only trade every other, or something along those lines. Does anyone else remember this? And also, as mentioned, you have to buy from the developer to even have this option at a much higher price than resale. IMO, I don't think this makes sense.

Many Marriott resorts only allow points every other year. Some, however, allow points each year. Many years ago, we bought a Sabal Palms unit because we could get the points every year (110,000). For years we used the points for Marriott travel packages and got very good deals (frequent flyer miles and a hotel stay for 7 nights). Now, I'm not so sure of the value. In any event, I would not buy a Marriott just for the points.

 

[Phillie]

Marriott Visa card?

I understand and have read the explanation of why to not trade for points but I will counter with what about in conjunction with using the Marriott Reward visa. I am a very heavy user of it. I charge any and all purchases, even school tuition for my boys, car payments, new sign set etc. It is really the only credit card I use plus I pay it off every month never carrying a balance. I get more points per dollar by being a MVCI owner. (I am under the impression only those who purchased from the developer get this?) Secondly for us we can combine the Visa and the TS points to get us even bigger trips for my family and extended family. So, what I am saying is I think once in a while it is worth it for us. We were given 125K per week when we bought.

 

[ondeadlin]

The Marriott Visa is actually a pretty bad value as far as points cards go, unless you're charging tons (50+ nights) at a Marriott.

Let's say, for instance, that you and I both spent $5,000 at a Marriott annually, $25,000 in general spending, and $25,000 on gas and groceries.

With you Marriott card, you'd have 75,000 points (25,000 points for the Marriott spend, 5 points per dollar, then 1 point per dollar for the other stuff). You can't get much for 75,000 Marriott points.

If you put the same charges on to a Delta American express, you'd come away with 80,000 Delta Skymiles (double miles on the gas and groceries, 1 mile for everything else). That's three round trip domestic tickets, or two tickets to Hawaii.

If you put the same charges on the new Amex cash back card, which gives you 5 percent back on gas and groceries, and 1.5 percent back on everything else (after an initial 6,000 spend), you'd get about $1,500 cash back.

I carry the Marriott card (because I do 50+ nights), but only use it for Marriott purchases. Delta Amex for everything else, but I'm thinking of switching to the cash card.

 

[Phillie]

yes delta amex is better

I too do 50+ nights in Marriott and therefore have the card. I used to use the delta as my primary when we lived in ATL and traveled back and forth to EU twice a month. Now that we are in PHL, ATL changing planes in a pain if I can get US-Scare, which I am not a fan of but have little choice in the city of brotherly love. I know the cash back are the best but then I would use it for something trivial vs a stress reduction vacation. Its all mental but I feel good and thats what matters in life right?

 

[camachinist]

Marriott can and does change this rule.

At NCV, the first owners could only get 110K points EOY but people buying today get 125K pts every year. (the old owners still get only 110K /EOY)

Please note I'm not an owner at NCV but I think this is the current data.

Absolutedly agrees with my information. Additionally, MVCI teased us by offering to "upgrade" our existing NCV intervals to EY surrender if we bought "one more" from them. Pass...

For the OP, IMO you'd be better off buying intervals resale and just renting them out and pocketing the cash. We get enough from our NCV rentals every year to actually do better working the travel deals and not be locked into Marriott's travel packages. The only time we ever used one was to use up the points from our purchase incentive package. Of course, YMMV.


Pat

 

[mjs]

Remember also that several months ago you could by an unlimited number of points for $.01 per point. You didnt even have to own a timeshare.
Mark

 

[pwrshift]

The rules were changed a few months back when you could buy an unlimited number of points (in lots of 99,000) from Marriott for $10.00 per 1000 pts, but it was quickly closed down when other departments complained to Marriott brass. Now it's $12.50 per 1000 points and you can only purchase up to 50,000 points per calendar year for yourself to make up the difference between the number of points you have and the number you need for a reward, as long as it's under 50k. You can purchase or gift these points. That seems to indicate that 110k points are valued by MAR at $1375.

https://buy.points.com/marriott/init.do?method=buy

To earn 110,000 points, not considering Elite bonuses and/or VISA earnings, you'd have to spend $11,000 in Marriott hotels. Or for about $1000, depending on the timeshare, you could give up your week for that many points. Only you can decide if that's a good enough deal for you. IMO once a week MF plus $104 fee gets to more than $1000 it's not worth it...but at any rate you need more than 1 week.

I take a trip EOY to some expensive Marriott and get business class air. EOY I trade in 540,000 pts for 2 Cat7 air&hotel pkgs which provides 2 weeks in hotels and more FF miles than I need for that trip. I have 6 Marriotts and trade 2 in each year for points - in my case 220,000 points a year ... or 440,000 over a 2 year period to replace points I've spent on travel over that period. To get the additional 100,000 pts over 2 years is quite easy, in my case, with hotel stays, bonus points, etc.

If NCV changed the amt of points one could exchange for and allowed it EY for the new purchasers, it is only because Marriott wanted those weeks for rental demand. The original purchasers didn't receive the change, but they did buy their weeks for $19,000 and got a few hundred thousand incentive points when they did. So I guess it's somewhat relative. Now the weeks are $35,000 or so, no incentive points, and the points are worth less. The early bird ...

Today, I wouldn't buy a week for exchanging for points. In 2001 and 2002 I bought MCV and MSE for less than $19,000 ea and got more than 500,000 points each ... 1 million points for $38,000. They both only allow EOY trading for points. The MF back then was about $600 a year. Times have changed for new purchasers and I don't see any sign that it will get better over time.

Still, I'm sold on points and my system works for me for now.

Brian

 

[Beverley]

Since the advent of being able to purchase points without having a shortage for a particular package in your account, it hardly makes sense to pay 20K to acquire 110K points every year.

I say this having done exactly what you were/ are contemplating. Only we purchased our "points farm" at 12.9 not 20. We get 110K every year. We trade for points every year and will continue to do so. We have gotten many travel packages and have saved lots using travel packages to Europe and Hawaii and Aruba, and many other places. The difference is the increased price tag in order to do the same thing.

Since it is now possible to purchase points, you will likely find that buying the equivalent for $1400 instead of $800 MF, w/o considering the purchase price of the time share, you could get the travel packages w/o spending the 20K.

:whoopie:

Beverley

 

[MLC]

buying just for points

Times have changed, when I bought my 10 weeks at the Marriott Monarch for under 10,000 each(this was the time when Marriott sold owner weeks and some owners would lower their price or you could bring an owner to Marriott and buy the week from that owner and get a lower price which I did several times) and MF were in the $650 range buying for points made a lot of since. TODAY I cannot make a case for buying for points. High MF and high cost of the timeshares does not make the numbers work. That being said I love Marriott reward points and I get them every year and as a result my kids are gold with American Airlines for life, they will soon be platinum for life in 3 years. It will be interesting to see what the Marriott point market will be like in 5 years from now. Marriott had not changed their point system for year and in the last 5 years or so it has changed almost every year. If the points stop having the value for me I will rent out my Monarch weeks or trade them but for now they are my points cow. Having said all this every body has different needs and desires that is why tugs is so good. You get to see different points of view and hopefully it can be helpful to all. Take care all you TUGGERS out there.

 

[pwrshift]

What am I missing here? Several of you seem to think you can just purchase whatever MR points you need from Marriott and take your trip. That loophole opened a few months ago but was abruptly closed, and they increased in price from $10/1000 points to $12.50/1000 points.

It seems pretty clear from the MR website that you can only purchase a maximum of up to 50,000 MR points each year, based on how many points you need to 'complete' a reward requirement. If you need more than 50,000 points, you'll have to earn them some other way or wait until the next year. That's a pretty slow route to a 270,000 point air+hotel pkg.

At least that's the way I understand it ... if I'm wrong, please let me know.

Here's what the website says: "Don’t have enough points for a specific reward? You can purchase up to 50,000 points per calendar year for yourself. Other limits apply."

Brian

...Since the advent of being able to purchase points without having a shortage for a particular package in your account, it hardly makes sense to pay 20K to acquire 110K points every year.

...Since it is now possible to purchase points, you will likely find that buying the equivalent for $1400 instead of $800 MF, w/o considering the purchase price of the time share, you could get the travel packages w/o spending the 20K.

:whoopie:

Beverley

 

[MOXJO7282]

Let's say, for instance, that you and I both spent $5,000 at a Marriott annually, $25,000 in general spending, and $25,000 on gas and groceries.

With you Marriott card, you'd have 75,000 points (25,000 points for the Marriott spend, 5 points per dollar, then 1 point per dollar for the other stuff). You can't get much for 75,000 Marriott points.

If you put the same charges on to a Delta American express, you'd come away with 80,000 Delta Skymiles (double miles on the gas and groceries, 1 mile for everything else). That's three round trip domestic tickets, or two tickets to Hawaii.

I'm not sure I follow your math. If you are staying at Marriotts, where is the 10 points per $1 for charges? If you are spending 50+ nights in MAR, I would think that would yield $200/night x 50 nights = $10,000 annual spend = 100k points + 5 points from MAR Visa = 50k points + 25K points for other non-Mar spend you mentioned.

The reason I point this out, is because this is the only scenerio where it might make sense to keep the points option alive, if you can really pad the exchange points with major Marriott spend every year or at least every 2.

My feeling is if you can get a 250K cert by trading in one year of points and supplementing with MAR Visa spend, then it may make sense to keep the points option open. Its a no brainer if you can do that every year, still viable every 2 years, but beyond that it might not be. IMHO.

Regards.
Joe

 

[Dave M]

Joe -

The purpose for the info in the text you quoted is to compare two different credit cards. The 10-points-(or more, depending on status)-per-dollar will be earned for Marriott stays no matter what credit card is used. Thus, including that info might well have created confusion.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Joe -

The purpose for the info in the text you quoted is to compare two different credit cards. The 10-points-(or more, depending on status)-per-dollar will be earned for Marriott stays no matter what credit card is used. Thus, including that info might well have created confusion.

Agreed it would be earned in either case, but with the delta cc it would be of much less value than when combined with the MAR Visa, where it can be really valuable so to me it is relative to the equation.

Regards.
Joe

 

[Davidr]

The other problem with buying a timeshare just for the points

is that while Marriott can and has raised the number of points required for a stay, the number of points that you receive for your week will remain the same. 10-20 years from now 110,00 points may not get you a week at a cat 1 hotel.

 

[Dave M]

10-20 years from now 110,000 points may not get you a week at a cat 1 hotel.

And if you don't believe what David says, read this explanation as to why frequent and significant point devaluations are necessary (copied from an earlier post):

Will Marriott devalue awards in future years? Definitely. Here is a ridiculous but dramatic example showing why:

Assume inflation in hotel room prices of 4% per year. Also, assume that a Marriott hotel room for a night has a current average cost eligible for Marriott Rewards points of about $150. At that 4% rate of inflation, the average cost 100 years from today would be $7,575 per night. ($150, compounded annually at 4% for 100 years = $7,575.)

Someone staying two nights at that average rate might earn 18 points per dollar spent (5 points on Marriott Premier Visa and 13 points - depending on elite status - for the stay). 18 points x $7,575 x two nights = 272,700 points earned for a two-night stay.

Thus, assuming Marriott doesn't ever devalue its program from where it is today, the person paying for a mere two nights at a Marriott would earn enough points for an air-hotel travel package that would include 120,000 FF miles and a 7-night stay in any Marriott hotel worldwide!

That's not what is intended. Thus, as inflation marches on, occasional devaluations are necessary to keep the earning and award equation in balance.

We don't like a points devaluation when it happens, but it makes sense for Marriott to do it.

 

[camachinist]

Absolutely makes sense for Marriott to devalue points, but IMO they are blatantly shortsighted in promoting a perk for developer purchases that erodes and becomes essentially worthless over time. Increasingly smarter consumers will see right through that. To wit, I could, and did, never imagine trading our intervals for points. Crunching the numbers only worked out with other substantial "free" points, such as those from huge credit card useage (far beyond our financial class) or substantial referral points (of which we've received some, just barely over 100K now). It's hard to refer friends to purchase developer when we know better Fine for renters though

I know I'm in the radical minority, but I think MR is going to implode. Hopefully, we'll get out of our MVCI intervals and MAR before it happens; there's a sweet spot I've projected and I'm just waiting and watching...

Pat

 

[Dave M]

Hmmm.

Devaluation isn't new. It's been going on regularly with almost all loyalty programs since the first major airline FF programs were founded 26 years ago. Marriott has been devaluing it's points at least since 1989 and has been offering points as timeshare purchase incentives for at least the past 14 years.

Marriott has been selling timeshares since 1984. Marriott Rewards was founded in 1983. Those of us who bought our first Marriott timeshares 14 or so years ago have seen many changes to the Marriott program. Those of us who have been earning and using megapoints in Marriott's loyalty program for 24 years have seen many changes to that program. Although not all changes to either program have been owner-friendly, none of the changes seem to have put a dent in Marriott's success.

Marriott Rewards is still recognized as one of the top hotel award programs. It took home two Freddie awards this year and was either second or third in every other Americas category for which it was eligible. Some of the recent unpopular changes were announced after the voting, but that's true for some of the other affinnity programs, too.

Thus, there isn't anything new about what has been happening recently. And Marriott is still as successful as ever at marketing its new timeshare projects - to new and existing owners.

Yes, there could be a big bang that would cause problems with Marriott timeshare sales or with the Marriott Rewards program. So far, I don't see any major bumps on the road. For individual owners? Yes, some minor ones. But not for Marriott.

Marriott timeshares are all about vacation, not about Marriott Rewards points. Those points are and always have been merely an incentive that Marriott dangles to help sales efforts.