Bring grocery bags!

[T_R_Oglodyte]

We noticed this on our grocery stop when in Cancun. They will happily sell you a cotton type bag. Rather thick. They certainly have a bigger carbon and water footprint, but won't clog up the lagoon or ocean like plastic, at least not long term.

With cotton not derived from fossil fuel, the carbon footprint for a fabric bag could easily be smaller than plastic. Further, since fabric bags are reused many times instead of being single use, over the lifetime of the bag, a reusable (and reused) cotton bag will come out ahead. Even a reusable plastic bag (or plastic coated fabric bag) will come out ahead.

The water footprint to produce fabric is not inherently larger than for plastics. And in any case, water can be treated and reused, regardless of whether product is fabric or plastic.

 

[dioxide45]

With cotton not derived from fossil fuel, the carbon footprint for a fabric bag could easily be smaller than plastic. Further, since fabric bags are reused many times instead of being single use, over the lifetime of the bag, a reusable (and reused) cotton bag will come out ahead. Even a reusable plastic bag (or plastic coated fabric bag) will come out ahead.

The water footprint to produce fabric is not inherently larger than for plastics. And in any case, water can be treated and reused, regardless of whether product is fabric or plastic.

I think you need to do some google searches on the subject. Even certain publications that you would expect to support reusable totes have articles talking about the issues with them. Cotton is a very water intensive crop to grow. In some studies you need to reuse that cotton bag 20,000 times to get the same footprint per use compared to single use plastic. Count up how many cotton bags you have in your house. Probably several dozen? Cotton totes are a big problem...

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I think you need to do some google searches on the subject. Even certain publications that you would expect to support reusable totes have articles talking about the issues with them. Cotton is a very water intensive crop to grow. In some studies you need to reuse that cotton bag 20,000 times to get the same footprint per use compared to single use plastic. Count up how many cotton bags you have in your house. Probably several dozen? Cotton totes are a big problem...

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

 

[slip]

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

You just described 99% of all the information on the internet.

 

[dioxide45]

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

So you got nothing?

 

[TUGBrian]

Does anyone have a list of items that you bring from home for a 1 or 2 week timeshare stay? I would have never thought of grocery bags. I've often wished that I had my favorite spices instead of having to buy a new large expensive jar every time. This morning I could really use my dryer sheets, the ones that I could buy here are way too many, way too expensive, and not the what I like. I have managed to remember to bring a couple extra zip lock bags which have come in handy. It would be great if someone already put together a checklist that I can steal.

A free comprehensive checklist of items to bring on your Timeshare Vacation

The most detailed Timeshare Vacation Packing List

tug2.net

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So you got nothing?

No. I'm just saying that just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean it's true. Even if it purports to be "science". And that applies to all sides of the political spectrum.

M perception is that in our current world, "scientific" investigators are more interested in demonstrating a point than they are in objectively testing a hypothesis.

 

[pittle]

In the past 2 years, the grocery stores in Puerto Vallarta do not provide grocery bags, so we now keep 4 of the bright green LeComer bags in our luggage too (I wrote . We also take an insulated tote bag that comes in handy for taking snacks & extra beverages to the beach. We still do catty-on only, but tend to take fewer clothes now because we can just do laundry each week. We are not out to impress folks with what we wear, it is not fancy, but is clean and comfortable.

 

[x3 skier]

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

Truer words were never spoken. I might also say the same thing about acounting, but I won’t.

Cheers

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

Truer words were never spoken. I might also say the same thing about acounting, but I won’t.

Cheers

It's like flying an airplane on instruments, asking the navigator what is the current altitude, and having him reply "What do you want it to be?" You'll get the answer you want, and maybe it will work out or maybe you'll fly into the side of a mountain. And if you hit the mountain, you can always say that you were just "following the science".

 

[dioxide45]

No. I'm just saying that just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean it's true. Even if it purports to be "science". And that applies to all sides of the political spectrum.

M perception is that in our current world, "scientific" investigators are more interested in demonstrating a point than they are in objectively testing a hypothesis.

The same could be said of any study ever done, from studies on climate, studies on certain vaccense. Any study. I certainly agree that not everything on the internet is true, but of all the articles I have read and all the cited studies, they can't all be wrong. I have yet to see a study that comes to the conclusion that paper, heavy plastic or cotton bags use less energy to produce, use and recycle. Just because a cotton bag can be reused doesn't mean it is reused. We are often tossed a free bag by the concierge when we check in to our timeshare. Most have been used zero times to actually carry anything. Reusable bags have become more of a virtue signal than anything else.

I should also note, you haven't shown anything yet that proves the point you tried to make that since a cotton bag is reusable it is better. Do you have a specific study that you have done yourself (not on the internet) to show that? I don't have access to actual studies except through the internet. You know the world wide web is this great thing that actually does show truthful stuff sometimes.

 

[Eric B]

The same could be said of any study ever done, from studies on climate, studies on certain vaccense. Any study. I certainly agree that not everything on the internet is true, but of all the articles I have read and all the cited studies, they can't all be wrong. I have yet to see a study that comes to the conclusion that paper, heavy plastic or cotton bags use less energy to produce, use and recycle. Just because a cotton bag can be reused doesn't mean it is reused. We are often tossed a free bag by the concierge when we check in to our timeshare. Most have been used zero times to actually carry anything. Reusable bags have become more of a virtue signal than anything else.

I should also note, you haven't shown anything yet that proves the point you tried to make that since a cotton bag is reusable it is better. Do you have a specific study that you have done yourself (not on the internet) to show that? I don't have access to actual studies except through the internet. You know the world wide web is this great thing that actually does show truthful stuff sometimes.

If he posted the study results, they would be on the internet, too. You two will probably have to get together in person and collaborate on a study to get to the bottom of this....

 

[dsmrp]

At the Mexican supermarkets ( probably not Costco), remember to tip the grocery baggers $1 to a few dollars, depending on how much you buy. I don't think they get paid or are employees of the stores.

Interestingly, the Navy commissary ( a federal employer) on Oahu HI, has the same setup. The baggers there work for tips. Of course they have to get pre-screened and approved. They at least will bring your cart & groceries to your car.

 

[klpca]

I have a canvas tote bag that I bought in college in the 80's - still going strong. Functionally, I like the bag plus it brings back some good memories (it has toted some fun things over the years). My second favorite canvas bag was bought from Foodland in Hawaii and it is not only large enough, it has two outside pockets that conveniently hold wine bottles (with bottles, it is too heavy for me but I like the way that they think!). From a functionality standpoint, canvas is my favorite, and paper is my second favorite. I bring over 50 years of regular unloading-grocery-bags-from-the-car experience to the discussion . This is just my personal anecdote, but I love my canvas tote bags.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I should also note, you haven't shown anything yet that proves the point you tried to make that since a cotton bag is reusable it is better. Do you have a specific study that you have done yourself (not on the internet) to show that? I don't have access to actual studies except through the internet. You know the world wide web is this great thing that actually does show truthful stuff sometimes.

Thanks for the followup.

No I haven't done anything on cotton bags. After doing some work in the arena, I concluded that most of it was nonsense. You can make the results be whatever you want by how you set the study parameters and underlying assumptions.

In doing even the most simple projects, you have to start making significant assumptions when you start to look at second tier impacts, and by the time you get to third tier almost everything is wild assumptions. Those are the areas where you can be most "creative" in defining scope to yield a desired result.

I don't have time right now to research the topic. Do you have a study link you can provide, and I can take a look at it and offer my opinion.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have a canvas tote bag that I bought in college in the 80's - still going strong. Functionally, I like the bag plus it brings back some good memories (it has toted some fun things over the years). My second favorite canvas bag was bought from Foodland in Hawaii and it is not only large enough, it has two outside pockets that conveniently hold wine bottles (with bottles, it is too heavy for me but I like the way that they think!). From a functionality standpoint, canvas is my favorite, and paper is my second favorite. I bring over 50 years of regular unloading-grocery-bags-from-the-car experience to the discussion . This is just my personal anecdote, but I love my canvas tote bags.

I like my canvas backpack. I don't think I would ever swap it for something made of polyethylene blown film, even if those were available.

 

[clifffaith]

Several years ago we were at Walmart in Lihue. They did not have plastic or Paper Bags. You choices were buy reusable bags from them or do without. We saw many locals load the groceries back into the Cart after purchasing them. Going to their cars and load the groceries into the back seat of their car. We have been traveling with reusable bags for over 10 years. The Cold Bags work great for picnics.

Several months ago the Walmarts in Salem Oregon announced they were going to stop having plastic or paper bags at the checkouts.

Some years ago they started charging for bags in LA if you did not bring your own. There was definitely a learning curve to remembering to bring bags in from the car. Several times I had to send Cliff back to the car — hopefully before we got in the checkout line. I had to temporarily abandon my cart while shopping alone to go get the bags. The one time I did get to checkout before remembering, I said “just put them back in the cart”. Then I stood in the parking lot packing groceries into the bags in my car. I’ll be dammed if I pay a dime for a bag when I spend thousands on groceries every year. And during the height of the pandemic when they didn’t want our bags entering the store, I hated those thick plastic bags (given for free) that held about three items each. I thought Sprouts handled it right — 5 cents off for every bag you brought in to use.

 

[clifffaith]

At the Mexican supermarkets ( probably not Costco), remember to tip the grocery baggers $1 to a few dollars, depending on how much you buy. I don't think they get paid or are employees of the stores.

Interestingly, the Navy commissary ( a federal employer) on Oahu HI, has the same setup. The baggers there work for tips. Of course they have to get pre-screened and approved. They at least will bring your cart & groceries to your car.

No tips from us — Cliff always loads the bags. Otherwise he “supervises”. I always tell baggers/checkers “it is better for everyone to just let him do it!” He seems to have a horror of making two trips up the elevator at the old folks home and overloads the bags. I have learned the hard way to hand carry eggs myself!

 

[amycurl]

I have a huge supply of reusable bags and been using them for nearly 25 years. I just really hate the plastic bags and they are definitely a littering hazard. Even the paper bags we sometimes get, we reuse for paper recycling. Our local farmers’ market has a leave-a-bag, take-a-bag rack, which I often donate to when I periodically cull my collection. I wish the market would ban the plastic ones.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[klpca]

I have a huge supply of reusable bags and been using them for nearly 25 years. I just really hate the plastic bags and they are definitely a littering hazard. Even the paper bags we sometimes get, we reuse for paper recycling. Our local farmers’ market has a leave-a-bag, take-a-bag rack, which I often donate to when I periodically cull my collection. I wish the market would ban the plastic ones.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Me too. I still remember the first time they bagged my groceries in the thin plastic bag! (Safeway on Linda Vista Road - in the 80's). I couldn't believe that I had to use something so flimsy! I was pretty peeved at the time, lol. They are just a poor alternative to more substantial bags from a functionality standpoint. I don't know why they ever became popular.

 

[easyrider]

My not so big problem is our reusable bags are usually not with us when we need them so we buy more reusable bags. For us, shopping in Mexico is rarely planned so the bags end up stashed in a resort kitchen cabinet. The times we remember our bags always seem like a win and make me smile especially when we are using La Comer bags at Mega or other stores. We never bring these bags home. I haven't seen any reusable bags in the ocean so the plan seems to be working.

Bill

 

[douglasmhines]

I've done enough environmental footprint work to know that environmental footprinting is not science. Within broad parameters, you can produce any output you want. When doing that work, the first question you ask is what is the result the person who is paying for the result wants. You then prepare a scope of work tailored to produce that result.

accurately describes most "soft science" in my opinon

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

accurately describes most "soft science" in my opinon

Totally. And even a lot of work that seems to not be so soft. Environmental toxicology is the arena I find most frustrating, and was one of the chief causes for me to stop doing soil and groundwater remediation projects.

 

[bobpark56]

Bringing a bag or 2 is good planning. Even better planning is to bring a backpack as well. If it's not a large backpack, airlines treat is as personal item, like a purse. My backpack easily carries our two 15-inch laptops, an iPad, and our electrical items: cables, mouse, battery recharger, extension cord, adapters and converter (when needed). Once there, we use the backpack for our heavier groceries (bottles, cans, dairy products, etc.), making the grocery bags easier to carry.

 

[Eric B]

Even better planning is to bring a backpack as well.

I'm thinking doggy backpack - then you can really call them service dogs!