Bought & rescinding HGVC Ocean Tower, advice moving forward

[DavidRNNV]

Agreed, they are just trying to get a chance increase the pressure sales and pretend they going to give us a new, BEST EVER, special deal.

Got there before 8 am (sales people sleep in) and my wife dropped it off at the desk and took a picture of them accepting it. Texted it to the sales rep!

Lots of really good resale pricing information, looking forward to to really digging into the TUG data/spreadsheets (wife and I are spreadsheet and data geeks! Her job is in data analytics) and the examples soon.

Hoping to return the favor to others and keep the munificence of TUGBBS going!

DAVIDRNNV

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[CalGalTraveler]

Agreed, they are just trying to get a chance increase the pressure sales and pretend they going to give us a new, BEST EVER, special deal.

Got there before 8 am (sales people sleep in) and my wife dropped it off at the desk and took a picture of them accepting it. Texted it to the sales rep!

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Bravo! You have brought new meaning to, "You snooze you lose."

This was one of those reusable grocery bags with HGVC logo, correct? Such drama over a cheap giveaway! With Covid it's not like they can give the bag to the next person (or at least I hope not.) Good riddance you rescinded.

 

[DavidRNNV]

Wasn't bad. Thick canvas wit a big zip pocket inside.

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[GT75]

Lots of really good resale pricing information, looking forward to to really digging into the TUG data/spreadsheets (wife and I are spreadsheet and data geeks! Her job is in data analytics) and the examples soon.

Are you also detailed planners? TS works best for those that like to plan (for example, booking right when the club season booking window opens. That is when you will be the best availibility). If you don't, then it is best to stay away from them.

 

[DavidRNNV]

I'm a "normal planner", but my wife is like a third tier grandmaster of planning! She does a lot of project management and operations for startup companies, so she should handle it well.

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[CalGalTraveler]

@DavidRNNV What a hassle over a bag worth a few bucks that they must discard anyway. This is a new low and unlike HGV which usually opts for the high road. I am mystified why they wouldn't want the free advertising with the bags by the pool. However I have had a prior presentation at Kingsland sales and they are not the best.

Did the receptionist look at you funny when you returned it? or was this something it appears they have been doing? IMHO...I don't think I will accept a bag at our upcoming VIP visit at Kingsland to avoid the hassle of return and potential that they are regifting bags during Covid. How unsanitary!

 

[rabmsn]

@rabmsn renting is always an option and I always consider that. You have sparked my curiosity:

Looking at the chart below, you would need 4800 - 6200 points for the week. If you owned a Las Vegas BLVD 1 Bdrm Penthouse with 6200 points you would pay $647.42 + club fees of $185 = $832/week for a 1 bdrm plus or $644.13 for a 1 bdrm per week. Saving $736 - $923.87 per year. Assuming you paid $7000 for the Vegas unit, your breakeven would be after 7.57 years of use assuming zero residual value.

CalGalTravler,
Good analysis! Thank you. I'm sure that a 7 to 8 year breakeven might make sense for some, but we've been traveling annually to the islands since 1985--usually for 2 or 3 weeks and migrated from one favorite facility to another after 4 to 6 years. We all spend our money differently and are always entitled to do so. I was just offering another option--variable vs. fixed costs.

And yes, we initially stayed in the 1BR JR, but recently in the 1BR Deluxe for a bit more. Last trip we took family and stayed in the 2BR Deluxe.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@rabmsn I appreciate your example and I agree that everyone is entitled to spend their hard earned money as they please. You are correct that another option is variable vs. fixed. Some people don't mind paying more for flexibility. Others want the highest cost savings while forgoing some flexibility. pros/cons to every approach. Most importantly, there are many places in the TS world where renting is superior to owning so the adage Location, Location, Location is highly relevant so understanding one's projected travel patterns is extremely important.

I want to make one clarification: Although a purchase in the HGV system will "lock" you into HGV properties, a purchase does not lock you into the Kingsland resort or room type because points are points. So it is more flexible that you suggest.

Using my example previously, let's theoretically say one paid for a 7000 point unit and saved $500 /week/year (instead of the $736 -$935 stated previously) since 1985 (35 years). That's $17,500 or at an assumed 5% interest rate in the stock market one would have had an additional $47,418 in their retirement. If one travels multiple weeks we can multiply those figures e.g. 3 weeks is $52,500 or at 5% $142,254 over 35 years. Of course one would back out the cost of the unit assuming (worst case) zero residual from this figure but one would still be ahead. If one wanted to stay at HHV in Waikiki or on Maui those savings are significantly higher - we stayed in a 3 bdrm penthouse in 2019 for about $1200 for a week. This unit rents for $5000/NITE. We'd never be able to stay in a unit like that if we were renting. We also couldn't afford to have our family join us.

My takeaway: Small savings add up over time. Renting is best for situations where TS savings are minimal/non-existent over renting, one doesn't care about oceanfront, view, larger units, and one is uncertain if they would repeat visit over 10+ years in a TS system (not just one room/site). And they want maximum flexibility and avoid the risk of selling/giving away the unit. There is no one right answer because everyone's situation is different. We travel to HI every year to various islands and timeshares have enabled us to stay in 2 bdrm OF units with our family at top quality resorts and save thousands per week.

 

[DEROS]

BTW…the TS sales rep emailed us how disappointed she is in us and wants the free HGVC canvas tote bag she gave us back before we leave! (WOW!) I’m sure a fair number of people back out. They kept asking when we were going to be leaving the BI. Guess they were trying to figure out when they could start counting on their commission checks. At times I start to feel bad for them, but then remember how fake friendly they were being. I could never do their job. I would not be able to sleep at night!
All the best for you and your families - stay safe!
DavidRNV

Technically you don't need to give back the tote bag until you actually rescind the contract. Remember, telling them you are rescinding is not the same as following the instruction in the contract to rescind. Even then, the rescind letter goes to their corporate headquarters in Florida. I really don't think the HQ wants the bag back. I never returned the pleather briefcase they gave me and they still rescinded my contract.

I hope you had an enjoyable stay in Hawaii. Please visit Oahu or Maui in the future and spend that tourist money. Right now, we really need it.

 

[DEROS]

@rabmsn

My takeaway: ......There is no one right answer because everyone's situation is different. We travel to HI every year to various islands and timeshares have enabled us to stay in 2 bdrm OF units with our family at top quality resorts and save thousands per week.

I agree, everybody buys for a different reason. My 2 reasons: I wanted the space. I use to stay at the Embassy suites a lot and loved the space. TS was the right fit for the space. 2bdrms and never looking back 2. Two family members have a severe food allergies (stick a epipen and call it the end of the vacation). So, we really didn't eat out when vacationing or was very picky. TS allowed us to grocery shop and cook food in the room. This alone justifies the cost. There is a 3rd reason but that was by accident. It was the ability to use 2 years worth of points, sometimes 3 year if you push and pull points, and reserving cheaper rooms (i.e. 2bdrm vice 2brm plus or premium) to stretch the points and reserve two rooms with 2bdrm each and invite family. Had some great times in Florida, California, Hawaii and Las Vegas with extended family. Gives you a big head when you tell them you are picking up the room cost, they just need to show up. (Room cost is normally the second largest expense in a vacation).

 

[DavidRNNV]

@DavidRNNV What a hassle over a bag worth a few bucks that they must discard anyway. This is a new low and unlike HGV which usually opts for the high road. I am mystified why they wouldn't want the free advertising with the bags by the pool. However I have had a prior presentation at Kingsland sales and they are not the best.

Did the receptionist look at you funny when you returned it? or was this something it appears they have been doing? IMHO...I don't think I will accept a bag at our upcoming VIP visit at Kingsland to avoid the hassle of return and potential that they are regifting bags during Covid. How unsanitary!

@CalGalTraveler The receptionist was more confused than anything. Nobody told her to expect it. Maybe the first time someone actually returned the bag. Think the sales rep was being petty and trying to make us feel guilty more than anything. I attached the text messages so you can have a better idea (attached 2x by mistake).
Sales rep was nice during the process when we were still potential customers. As long as you include typical sales maneuvers like getting the Sr rep to go over the cost, leaving us alone for a few minutes, then"throwing in" an additional 3,400 points at the end saying, somehow it was our sale rep's points that she was giving us to close/sweeten the deal.
When we said "yes" then the sales rep started talking about places to eat and writing them down. I assumed my wife asked her about it, but later she said she never mentioned anything. I think she was just trying to make some kind of personal connection with us, so we wouldn't back out (expect a large % do). Kept confirming when we are leaving and saying she will text us.

 

[DavidRNNV]

My takeaway: Small savings add up over time. Renting is best for situations where TS savings are minimal/non-existent over renting, one doesn't care about oceanfront, view, larger units, and one is uncertain if they would repeat visit over 10+ years in a TS system (not just one room/site). And they want maximum flexibility and avoid the risk of selling/giving away the unit. There is no one right answer because everyone's situation is different. We travel to HI every year to various islands and timeshares have enabled us to stay in 2 bdrm OF units with our family at top quality resorts and save thousands per week.

@CalGalTraveler you did a great job breaking down the pros & cons between renting and owning. Excellent points cost breakdown! Helped solidify that we are on the right track! We definitely fit into the owning a TS category. So far I really like the flexibility of HGVC and the resorts we've seen. Planning to make an outline of our travel plans for the next 5 years, so we can anticipate points needed, locations, etc. Will also have an exit strategy primarily based on the MFs and our income. This is so we get out before it gets it becomes too detrimental. Still, expect we will be in for the long haul, 10 -15 years +.
PS, Very Much Looking forward to changing my status from Guest to TUG Member, guess will have to wait until I buy my 1st TS (already paid membership fee)

 

[GT75]

already paid membership fee

If you paid TUG membership fee then you should be showing as a member. Refer to Link. If you have problems, then let me know.

 

[GT75]

Planning to make an outline of our travel plans for the next 5 years, so we can anticipate points needed, locations, etc. Will also have an exit strategy primarily based on the MFs and our income. This is so we get out before it gets it becomes too detrimental. Still, expect we will be in for the long haul, 10 -15 years +.

Looks like you are covering all of the bases.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

Those text messages are so unprofessional. I'd block her # pronto.

 

[GregT]

David, you did the right thing -- your instincts are correct that timeshares (and HGVC) can be a great thing to own, now you just need to construct the right ownership package for you. It is interesting to read the text thread and see the pressure/guilt tactics -- not surprising, just sad for a product that I really like and enjoy -- what a shame that it is not consistent to be able to buy it from the developer and not get taken to the cleaners.

Good luck with the search -- and remember also that these things are much easier to buy than dispose of -- you will buy your first, like it, and then start hunting for more. But I have no regrets!

Best,

Greg