Bored, so decided to attend an "update"

[Double U]

No idea what they mean by "time's up" but I would not think Bonnet Creek is going anywhere.....

True, but all these new people in CWA are going to make 13 month ARP at BC even more difficult for the owners who bought deeded there for that advantage. It's already happened to them, they just don't realize. Everyone everywhere will have to swap to CWA at some point to book anything. The strategy as we see it only shifts the problem, IMO.

 

[paxsarah]

No idea what they mean by "time's up" but I would not think Bonnet Creek is going anywhere.....

I assume “time’s up” for booking a summer vacation based on the email date of July 19. Summer was practically over.

 

[paxsarah]

True, but all these new people in CWA are going to make 13 month ARP at BC even more difficult for the owners who bought deeded there for that advantage. It's already happened to them, they just don't realize. Everyone everywhere will have to swap to CWA at some point to book anything. The strategy as we see it only shifts the problem, IMO.

CWA owners and deeded owners do not compete against each other at 13 months. Existing CWA owners may now be competing with the newly swapped owners at 13 months (if you believe that old dogs can be taught new tricks like booking CWA resorts at 13 months when they previously owned likely a fixed/converted week at a legacy resort that will no longer exist and that only allowed them 10 month booking at other locations), but the deeded owners at Bonnet Creek or any other resort in CWA will still only be competing with each other at 13 months, not CWA owners.

 

[Double U]

CWA owners and deeded owners do not compete against each other at 13 months. Existing CWA owners may now be competing with the newly swapped owners at 13 months (if you believe that old dogs can be taught new tricks like booking CWA resorts at 13 months when they previously owned likely a fixed/converted week at a legacy resort that will no longer exist and that only allowed them 10 month booking at other locations), but the deeded owners at Bonnet Creek or any other resort in CWA will still only be competing with each other at 13 months, not CWA owners.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding how it works, but I remember at one time CWA may have had 25% there. I may be wrong. And it could be increasing for all we know. I believe BC is UDI. So CWA could book 25% of the good stuff, leaving the deeded BC owners ARP on what is left? If only 25% of the year is what everyone wants to get, how does it help? Just trying to understand.

 

[paxsarah]

Say hypothetically BC has 25% of its inventory in CWA. From 13-10 months, all CWA owners only have access to that exact 25% of BC inventory (and exactly what inventory is spelled out in the CWA public offering statement). BC deeded owners have access to the remaining 75% of BC inventory in the 13-10 month window. These deed swaps for CWA points don't change the percentage of Bonnet Creek inventory that's in CWA, so it should have zero impact on deeded owners there. The only change is in who owns some number of preexisting CWA points, previously owned by Wyndham and now to be owned by various individual owners. My guess is that if anyone sees any impact, there might be a bit more difficulty for existing CWA owners booking in the ARP window with competition from owners who took the swap (if you think at least some old dogs will learn a new trick), whereas when Wyndham owned those points they were presumably used for rentals and promotions that were reserved somewhere inside the 10-month window, not as far out as 13 months.

 

[Double U]

Your explanation is logical and makes sense. My take is that I've never heard of a CWA owner being unable to complete a reservation at 13 months. There may be examples, I'm just unaware of any. If the BC ownership is UDI, that 25% can be used in anyway, anytime. If only part of the year is what everyone wants (say 25% or so), then I see CWA can get the best 25%, as more people have it now. It really only happens in the peak times, owner priority and the like, and 25% may be enough to cover it, as at 10 months, points are points. There are more people on a level playing field with the owners. But show me where a CWA owner has been denied the ability to reserve because CWA reached their maximum? Help me understand what I'm missing?

 

[paxsarah]

Your explanation is logical and makes sense. My take is that I've never heard of a CWA owner being unable to complete a reservation at 13 months. There may be examples, I'm just unaware of any. If the BC ownership is UDI, that 25% can be used in anyway, anytime. If only part of the year is what everyone wants (say 25% or so), then I see CWA can get the best 25%, as more people have it now. It really only happens in the peak times, owner priority and the like, and 25% may be enough to cover it, as at 10 months, points are points. There are more people on a level playing field with the owners. But show me where a CWA owner has been denied the ability to reserve because CWA reached their maximum? Help me understand what I'm missing?

I think BC is a poor example because it’s a huge resort with a sizable percentage of units in CWA and is popular year-round, and I would guess anyone who’s online at midnight at 13 months, whether they’re CWA or deeded there, is going to be able to book the unit type and dates they want (with the possible exception of Christmas, Thanksgiving, or Easter in a 4BR if you wait until a bit later in the ARP window). BC is large enough that if you book at your earliest window at midnight, it doesn’t much matter what you own.

But I think it’s quite possible in a smaller resort, with less inventory in CWA, and more seasonal swings. The Newport resorts come to mind, where I recall hearing stories of CWA owners unable to book summer at 13 months, but more deeded inventory (in the form of converted fixed weeks not booked in ARP by their owners) became available at 10 months and provided more booking options to the 10-month early birds.

 

[Floridaman76]

True, but all these new people in CWA are going to make 13 month ARP at BC even more difficult for the owners who bought deeded there for that advantage. It's already happened to them, they just don't realize. Everyone everywhere will have to swap to CWA at some point to book anything. The strategy as we see it only shifts the problem, IMO.

I was criticized back in July / August when I suggest that an influx of hundreds or thousands of new owners INTO CWA would have a pretty drastic impact on booking at some resorts. Spefiically where ARP is an issue at the 10 month mark.

This next year will be very telling.

 

[Eric B]

In my experience, those of us that book the instant we are capable of doing so are more the exception than the rule. There are a few places/times where I try to get a reservation as soon as I can because I know it will be tight, but not many. This year has seemed easier than normal.

 

[Jan M.]

Usage may vary. If you're only looking to stay at a specific resort for specific dates and you have to plan around scheduling vacation time from work for the adults, school schedules, sports schedules, pet sitters, etc., then I'd think you'd want to book as soon as you knew your dates.

We had very flexible work schedules even before retirement. Since DH retired in February, 2018, we've traveled extensively with our timeshares doing long spring and fall trips with some shorter stays in between. I've been able to put our trips together with no problem.

This year we had 110 nights with our spring trip. It evolved along the way more than any of our other long trips. That trip started from home in Tamarac, Florida (12 miles inland from Pompano Beach) as far west as Fairfield Glade, as far east at Williamsburg, and as far north as Ohio about 15 miles from Lake Erie. It ended with a 7 night unplanned stay over the 4th of July at Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach that popped up 15 days out. Because why not and I have a DH who gives up and goes along with the ride on the crazy train. Lol

We're just finishing up our 105 night fall into winter trip. This trip started from home, Tamarac, Florida, and took us as far west as Oceanside Pier resort in southern California. Some of it wasn't even booked yet when we left home in September. We saw so, so much, way too much, desert in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California! We did however find the Sonoran Desert with its saguaro cactus interesting and picturesque.

I don't even have an idea yet for our spring trip. By our second week back at home I'll be ready, enough of this lol, to get into full planning mode. It will be interesting to see if it proves more difficult this year with the loss of so many resorts.

 

[schreff]

I was criticized back in July / August when I suggest that an influx of hundreds or thousands of new owners INTO CWA would have a pretty drastic impact on booking at some resorts. Spefiically where ARP is an issue at the 10 month mark.

This next year will be very telling.

Agree. Think of all those families who had their reservations cancelled for the summer at the 14 closed resorts. Now, they not only have to change their plans but also have less choices because of the vacations already booked. The 10 months extend beyond the summer months.

I too would not be happy if I was a CWA owner who paid $ 80,000. and the new swap taking CWA owners have the same booking power as me. When I called Wyndham about the swap I spoke to at least 5 different reps and none of them knew how many weeks were lost because of the closures. Has anyone done the math?

 

[rickandcindy23]

More people will deed back, rather than to take CWA. Some have been waiting for the opportunity to get out. But will Wyndham pay anything for that choice. Doubtful.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

True, but all these new people in CWA are going to make 13 month ARP at BC even more difficult

As an owner at CWBC I can tell you that 13 month ARP is never even close to difficult for any room category at any time of year. 10 month isn’t either except for 4 bedroom presidential units at the most in-demand times of year. I’m not losing sleep over CWBC availability.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Say hypothetically BC has 25% of its inventory in CWA. From 13-10 months, all CWA owners only have access to that exact 25% of BC inventory (and exactly what inventory is spelled out in the CWA public offering statement). BC deeded owners have access to the remaining 75% of BC inventory in the 13-10 month window. These deed swaps for CWA points don't change the percentage of Bonnet Creek inventory that's in CWA, so it should have zero impact on deeded owners there. The only change is in who owns some number of preexisting CWA points, previously owned by Wyndham and now to be owned by various individual owners. My guess is that if anyone sees any impact, there might be a bit more difficulty for existing CWA owners booking in the ARP window with competition from owners who took the swap (if you think at least some old dogs will learn a new trick), whereas when Wyndham owned those points they were presumably used for rentals and promotions that were reserved somewhere inside the 10-month window, not as far out as 13 months.

Exactly - CWA owners can only book CWA ARP inventory, and CWS owners can only book CWS ARP inventory, period, full stop. There's no "sharing" of inventory across ownerships in the ARP window, none. We have proven this in the past using specific search criteria looking for specific unit types - that was somewhat of a chore to prove out but we did in the past. Not doing that again LOL.

The whole topic of how the impacted resorts leaving the system will actually impact availability is an interesting one. In many cases, the majority of ownerships at the impacted resorts are/were legacy weeks owners - so they aren't and never were part of Club Wyndham, since they are not points owners. I know some are suspect of the lower occupancy numbers, but what I've come to understand is that many legacy weeks owners, didn't actually use their legacy weeks, they exchanged them via RCI and went elsewhere. So on top of the fact that the points owner occupancy rates were lower, so were the legacy weeks owner occupancy rates. This makes sense to me, at least based on anecdotal evidences from many folks I know that own or owned legacy weeks, and almost always exchanged what they owned via RCI and went elsewhere. Again, just anecdotal, but in thinking through a lot of these types of topics while stepping back over Christmas vacation the past two weeks, it does make sense to me at least what we've heard about the lower owner occupancy rates, if not the overall occupancy rates.

I really wish I could get ahold of the latest CWA POS - as occupancy rates are actually published in this document as well - but alas - despite repeated efforts - I've been unable to source a recent CWA POS document. I wonder nowadays if they're even giving this out to new CWA owners as it seems next to impossible to obtain even a PDF version, which is what I received back in 2018 when I bought into CWA with Wyndham.

 

[HitchHiker71]

More people will deed back, rather than to take CWA. Some have been waiting for the opportunity to get out. But will Wyndham pay anything for that choice. Doubtful.

Agreed - I think this is especially the case with the legacy weeks owners. They just want out and aren't at all familiar with the Club Wyndham points system and its complexities, and have little to no interest, given most of these folks are older and well into retirement age. I think for the legacy weeks-based owners, taking any CWA swap will be the exception and not the rule. The question then becomes, what is the split/breakdown between Club Wyndham owners, whether UDI or converted fixed week owners for each impacted resort, and legacy week owners. I’d surmise the majority of owners left at many these resorts are actually legacy weeks owners who have never converted to any points ownerships. I actually wonder if that’s at least partly why Wyndham is exiting at least some of these locations - too many uncoverted legacy weeks owners who have resisted converting to Club Wyndham over the past 30-40 years. I doubt we will be able to source this type of detailed data, but it won't stop me from trying LOL.

 

[Jace]

I attended an update out of boredom at Clearwater in December. The sales rep looked at my PR contract at Canterbury and my 700k point contact at PCB , both resale , he asked me why I was there, I said for the free drinks & breakfast, He walked away , another guy came back 5 min later and “I’m xyz’s supervisor , xyz had another meeting come up, you can go now”

I laughed and walked out.

 

[Floridaman76]

I attended an update out of boredom at Clearwater in December. The sales rep looked at my PR contract at Canterbury and my 700k point contact at PCB , both resale , he asked me why I was there, I said for the free drinks & breakfast, He walked away , another guy came back 5 min later and “I’m xyz’s supervisor , xyz had another meeting come up, you can go now”

I laughed and walked out.

My very last one at Old Town Alexandria right after Christmas was like that too. The person looked at my paperwork, then asked me point blank what I wanted out of this meeting. I said "the $200 gift card you gave me", she could read the room, we chatted about a couple non-timeshare things for about 10 minutes, asked us if we had any questions, and were out. Honestly foot in the door to foot out the door under 30 total minutes, including the time to show our ID and get the gift. I have not had one that quick/good in months.

Also saying right out of the gate that I was in the process of getting an additional 425,000 point resale contract transferred cemented the deal. She didn't want to waste either one of our times.

Refreshing.

 

[Rflow]

The WR points are good value. I have been angling rather than $200+ cash (Amex card/Tango) at Updates to ask for the $125 Amex + 15,000 WR points, they almost always do that without a fight whereas they will sometimes fight for $200 or more Amex

I had to stay at a Hotel last year last minute for 10 days due to a relative's health issue out of state and burned through a big hunk of my WR points

I just did this at Royal Vista. I feel like the AMEX gets spent so easily but the points make me travel. I don’t take these ridiculous trips but last year I took 10 trips last year mostly short weekends but the rewards points allowed me to do it. I stayed in all resorts with the points no hotels.