Booking a Resale Type reservation....don't expect to combine with Developer points

[Sandy VDH]

Did they tell us that we could use our resale points to make a booking, but if we needed a more points, that we could combine with Developer points but that reservation would be treated as resale type reservation? That is what I heard, but NOT so fast.

I have 264000 Resale points in 2022. I am trying to make a reservation that requires 321,000 points. So I want to use, from the same use year, points to cover that last bit from my Developer point allotment. Well guess what, it is ONLY offering me the option to RENT those points for CASH, there is NO option to USE my developer points to top of the required shortfall.

Has anyone who has BOTH resale and developer points run into this yet? I am sure they said this should be possible.

If this is the case then I am going to be pissed, as this is essentially now 2 unrelated group of points in the same year in one account.

 

[CO skier]

If your reservation is not within the Express Window to borrow points, then I think the computer is correct.

 

[Sandy VDH]

If your reservation is not within the Express Window, then I think the computer is correct.

.....and how to you come to that conclusion? Based on what?

Of course it is NOT in the Express Window, it if were I would likely be using Developer points and getting a discount not using resale points for some booking I know will likely will NOT be there when the Express and Discount periods come.

I am NOT trying to borrow from a different year, I am trying to use some 2022 Developer points to finish off a 2022 Reservation using MOSTLY resale points.

Of course they have nothing written on exactly the rules for this work, I looked. But I did listen for that on the training session they offered when they rolled this out.

 

[CO skier]

I am NOT trying to borrow from a different year, I am trying to use some 2022 Developer points to finish off a 2022 Reservation using MOSTLY resale points.

Well, you could have said that from the beginning.

Your post only said, "borrow" which is restricted to the Express Window.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I finally found an older thread that had some discussion on this topic.

Contracts now segregated by Developer and Resale

Oh gosh - focus groups alone? No wonder they got skewed data. Wonder if they would consider a focus group with people who value functionality over pretty and simple. Now that the new DT team is in place that manages the entire cloud based website for both Wyndham and Worldmark - which has more...

tugbbs.com

This is what I was expecting to see, but not what I got. Has anyone discussed this with Wyndham. Why is this "I want to use developer points" only available in the Express Window and NOT in the standard window. That makes no sense and makes resale points even more cumbersome to use, as you have the option to only make a booking that is within the limit of Resale points that you have.

This is the Express Window version. Now I would not expect borrow on the Standard window, but I sure as hell expected use DEVELOPER points. What did other expect?

 

[Sandy VDH]

Well, you could have said that from the beginning.

Your post only said, "borrow" which is restricted to the Express Window.

Reworded to remove "borrow"

 

[comicbookman]

Did they tell us that we could use our resale points to make a booking, but if we needed a more points, that we could combine with Developer points but that reservation would be treated as resale type reservation? That is what I heard, but NOT so fast.

I have 264000 Resale points in 2022. I am trying to make a reservation that requires 321,000 points. So I want to use, from the same use year, points to cover that last bit from my Developer point allotment. Well guess what, it is ONLY offering me the option to RENT those points for CASH, there is NO option to USE my developer points to top of the required shortfall.

Has anyone who has BOTH resale and developer points run into this yet? I am sure they said this should be possible.

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If this is the case then I am going to be pissed, as this is essentially now 2 unrelated group of points in the same year in one account.

That was my understanding as well. otherwise they might as well be different accounts.

 

[meetseti]

If you start the reservation as a resale type, will the system then let you combine resale and developer points in the same booking?

 

[Sandy VDH]

If you start the reservation as a resale type, will the system then let you combine resale and developer points in the same booking?

ONLY during Express Reservation Period. NOT during Standard Reservation Period. Which is hogwash.

Oh and it gets even better, the Owner Care rep told me that it is an ERROR that you can combine them during Express window and they are planning on taking that function away. So end result is you actually have two separate accounts and if you don't have enough in one, then PAY them by RENTING points to complete your reservation sounds like it is going to be the only option. Right you you can combine but only during ERP.

I think we all need to write in comments and complain, as that is EXPRESSLY opposite what we were told back in August.

What is the CEOs email address?
Did anyone record that session back in August?

I don't see any argument for why I can't chose to downgrade my points and use some of my Developer Type points in a Resale transaction, any time during the SRP. I will we writing in and complaining vigorously about this. I think it should be an option during ERP and SRP, and if rules allow ARP (but there are more restrictions there.) ARPP wouldn't apply to me, as most of my contracts are fixed week converted which are NOT combinable, but if you have UDI points then that is different and those should be combinable.)

 

[paxsarah]

I just wanted to bring back this answer from the list of questions Hitchhiker was able to bring to Wyndham before the change was rolled out.

If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will the points used from both buckets combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?

• Yes, whether with CWS or CWA and across both the developer and resale points buckets - same ARP contract combination rules as are in place today.

This addressed ARP specifically, but unless the system is somehow allowing combining only during ARP (if there's anyone out there who can check this?), not allowing it during Standard, and then allowing it again (as borrowing) during Express, I don't think the system is working as it was promised.

 

[Eric B]

I think this issue was raised by @HitchHiker71 to Wyndham. The slipshod communication by Wyndham reusing the term “borrow” for what you’re allowed to do when conveying the idea to hybrid owners and to their IT staff was never a good idea.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I think this issue was raised by @HitchHiker71 to Wyndham. The slipshod communication by Wyndham reusing the term “borrow” for what you’re allowed to do when conveying the idea to hybrid owners and to their IT staff was never a good idea.

I am not borrowing, which is specific to FROM A DIFFERENT USE YEAR. What we are doing in co-mingling within the same use year, and opted to downground Developer privileges to resale one. Shouldn't that be at our direction, and be a benefit to Wyndham (slightly reducing the Developer poll of points).

@HitchHiker71 whatever became of that when it was raised?

 

[HitchHiker71]

I am not borrowing, which is specific to FROM A DIFFERENT USE YEAR. What we are doing in co-mingling within the same use year, and opted to downground Developer privileges to resale one. Shouldn't that be at our direction, and be a benefit to Wyndham (slightly reducing the Developer poll of points).

@HitchHiker71 whatever became of that when it was raised?

Here's the direct guidance I received back from the Owner Resolution Operations Manager on this topic - as of 10/1/2021:

I haven't reconnected with this particular Wyndham resource on this topic since 10/1/2021. I'll follow up and outline the discrepancy that @paxsarah pointed out with regard to the ARP statement from the original Q&A. The guidance above confirms that it's only possible to borrow points when making reservations in the ERP. Has anyone tried making an ARP resale reservation combining both resale and developer points to test whether this works - whether using CUY or FUY points? I haven't done so recently. I know it didn't work early on because we had issues making any ARP reservations after the mid-August changes were rolled out - which was fixed sometime in September IIRC. I'll need to run some tests myself when I have time.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Has anyone tried making an ARP resale reservation combining both resale and developer points to test whether this works - whether using CUY or FUY points?

I can't test this as I only have 1 week that is not a fixed week converted. So I can't actually combine anything during ARP. So I can't test that. sorry.

However I think its absurd that we can only do this during ERP. We are co-mingling current year points, not borrowing. Perhaps you can also confirm with your source the fact the Owner Care told me that co-mingling is not going to per allowed period, they allowed it in ERP in error, and it should be removed. If they removed it all together from ERP too then we essentially have two unrelated points accounts in the same membership. That I am not down with.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I can't test this as I only have 1 week that is not a fixed week converted. So I can't actually combine anything during ARP. So I can't test that. sorry.

However I think its absurd that we can only do this during ERP. We are co-mingling current year points, not borrowing. Perhaps you can also confirm with your source the fact the Owner Care told me that co-mingling is not going to per allowed period, they allowed it in ERP in error, and it should be removed. If they removed it all together from ERP too then we essentially have two unrelated points accounts in the same membership. That I am not down with.

Actually I cannot test this either - as I only have a single resale NH contract and do not own any developer NH contract to test ARP borrowing functions. Someone else will have to test this use case. It is clear to me that Wyndham is discouraging resale transactions through their recent actions - so it is unlikely that they will entertain broadening resale transaction capabilities beyond what already exists today - but we can always ask. Just remember - we're only dealing with 5% of the overall ownership from a resale standpoint - and less than 1% that are VIP/resale hybrid owners. In other words - a very small minority of the ownership base. Therefore, we're not negotiating from a position of strength when making these asks. Just trying to level set expectations when looking at this pragmatically from a statistical representative standpoint.

EDIT: I've made the ask into Wyndham on SRP points borrowing - not gonna hold my breath on a net positive response - but I'll share whatever comes back my way.

 

[A.Win]

It seems to me that Wyndham intentionally expects owners to waste a small number of points each year when they expire. Or owners can pay extra to rent the points needed to top off a reservation.

I would love to know how many owners waste points each year. I bet the percentage is quite high.

Here is a suggestion for Wyndham that owners would love: Each year, you can return up to 50,000 points and get your MFs reimbursed. Maybe this could be a VIP benefit.

 

[Jethro37]

This seems like a strong disincentive for resale owners to ever purchase developer points. Why not just get more resale points that play nicely together?

 

[kaljor]

Which will be a great answer when being pressed to buy at an owner's "update". Mentioning that under the new system, my buying developer points would actually mean I had two separate accounts, and who in the world would want that?

 

[tschwa2]

Which will be a great answer when being pressed to buy at an owner's "update". Mentioning that under the new system, my buying developer points would actually mean I had two separate accounts, and who in the world would want that?

and the answer would be, no problem. Use certified exit to rid yourself of the "dirty" resale points and buy retail. In fact since you own resale I will give you a special today only pricing on enough retail points to get you up to VIP with bonus points I will throw in for you.

 

[paxsarah]

This seems like a strong disincentive for resale owners to ever purchase developer points. Why not just get more resale points that play nicely together?

This is exactly what I was thinking. I’ve spent the last decade assembling a set of resale contracts with below average MFs and the ARP I want, and which function predictably well. And now you want me to spend tens of thousands on retail points (likely with higher MFs) that won’t play well with what I have? No thanks.

 

[Eric B]

My answer going forward will be that I will buy enough to get to Founders if you can make my resale points eligible for developer benefits. Other systems offer that option - if you can’t do it I’ll just buy what I need to round out my holdings in a different system that can deliver for hybrid owners and recognizes the resale value of what they sell.

 

[bnoble]

I probably won’t have an answer, because I don’t ever plan to attend a sales meeting.

 

[Eric B]

As I get older, I enjoy having the opportunity to spend time interacting with other people. That’s time, though, not money. Maybe they’ll put me on the do not tour list?

 

[paxsarah]

I probably won’t have an answer, because I don’t ever plan to attend a sales meeting.

Never have myself, either. I’m going to guess highly-informed resale-only owners are not a group that they care that much about reaching.

 

[tschwa2]

My answer going forward will be that I will buy enough to get to Founders if you can make my resale points eligible for developer benefits. Other systems offer that option - if you can’t do it I’ll just buy what I need to round out my holdings in a different system that can deliver for hybrid owners and recognizes the resale value of what they sell.

Well rack rate for points is $240 per 1000 so if you offer to plop down $336,000 for 1.4 million points, they might be able to find away to take back up to a million resale points and make them VIP eligible so you would end up with 2.4 million vip eligible points.