Bank error in your favor - collect $200

[DrQ]

I had some work done on the house done by a company that is part of a franchise. I presented the technician a check for $1,XXX.xx which I entered into Quicken and printed out on my laser printer, so legibility is not an issue. I used a check because of the 3% service fee they charged on credit card transactions.

I download transactions into Quicken daily and noticed that my account was debited for only $XXX.xx. I waited a week to see if there were any updates to the transaction. I went to my bank to report the error and they say that the Check Clearing System only cleared $XXX.xx, so the error is not on my bank's end. I cannot determine from the back of the check, the institution the check was originally presented.

Given that there is an image in the ACH system for a check for $1,XXX.xx, I'm very reluctant to pay another $1K until I can be assured that the original check is dead and buried.

Being honest, I'm thinking that the best course of action is to write the home office of the franchise saying that I have noticed the error and I will provide them the documentation to fight the mistake with their institution within their terms of their account.

 

[andre10056]

I'd be less concerned with the multibillion dollar bank and more concerned with the individual contractor who did the work for you. I'd call him/her and ask if he/she cashed your check because you're not sure it went through. If the contractor responds that, after checking, the deposit of your check into his/her bank account appeared in full in his/her account, my inquiries would end.

 

[DrQ]

I'd be less concerned with the multibillion dollar bank and more concerned with the individual contractor who did the work for you.

I'm not concerned with the bank. I have done my due diligence and am putting the company on notice that they may have been shorted by their bank. The technician doing the work just turns the check back to "the office". I'm doing it in a timely manner for them to investigate and correct the error on their end.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I think you did the right thing. There is only so much effort you can put into an individual transaction.

 

[Snazzylass]

Wow! Please update us! This seems really odd.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I wonder why these companies can't just have you use a system that directly draws the money from your account. Checks seem so passe.

 

[heitmullerj02]

As a 45 year Banker, I would be very careful who I gave access to my bank account. Dr Q did the right thing, reported the error to his bank. If he wants to give the contractor a heads up that is nice. Don’t be surprised if it works itself out via the 2 banks, there is a department for that and it’s their job to make sure the debits match.

 

[DrQ]

As a 45 year Banker, I would be very careful who I gave access to my bank account.

That is why I generally do not allow ACH out on my account. Same with Venmo and Zelle.

 

[Brett]

As a 45 year Banker, I would be very careful who I gave access to my bank account. Dr Q did the right thing, reported the error to his bank. If he wants to give the contractor a heads up that is nice. Don’t be surprised if it works itself out via the 2 banks, there is a department for that and it’s their job to make sure the debits match.

Yes, when I was in banking many decades ago a Proof Dept and magnetically encoded checks might have prevented this type of error.
Also thinking the two banks will eventually resolve the differences

 

[DrQ]

I wonder why these companies can't just have you use a system that directly draws the money from your account.

They do, it is called ACH, Zelle and Venmo. I don't give outsiders the ability to withdraw funds directly from my account without the usual checks and balances. Same thing with using a debit card. If there's a problem, your funds are GONE until (or IF) the matter is resolved.

Many of these systems are NOT banks and are outside of the protections afforded to users of banks. Users of one of these "systems" found this out when the app they were using lost access to their money because the middleman the app used to handle the funds went bankrupt. While the funds WERE deposited in FDIC institutions, they were massed into large deposits and the users were actually unsecured creditors who were NOT first in line to collect from the bankruptcy. New is not necessarily better.

 

[DrQ]

This is why I keep on top of my checks:

Wells Fargo denies $28K refund after check altered, cashed by mail thieves

Mail thieves stole a couple's property tax payment from the mail, wrote in their own name and cashed the $28,000 check. Wells Fargo says it's too late to get a refund.

abc7chicago.com

Wells Fargo pointed to its 42-page deposit account agreement, which says customers must review bank statements each month and report unauthorized payments within 30 days -- or lose rights to a claim.​

 

[DrQ]

Don’t be surprised if it works itself out via the 2 banks, there is a department for that and it’s their job to make sure the debits match.

So do you think Home improvement company received credit for a $1,XXX.xx deposit and I received a $XXX.xx debit and the $1K error is an OCR error in the check clearing system?

 

[TolmiePeak]

They do, it is called ACH, Zelle and Venmo. I don't give outsiders the ability to withdraw funds directly from my account without the usual checks and balances. Same thing with using a debit card. If there's a problem, your funds are GONE until (or IF) the matter is resolved.

Many of these systems are NOT banks and are outside of the protections afforded to users of banks. Users of one of these "systems" found this out when the app they were using lost access to their money because the middleman the app used to handle the funds went bankrupt. While the funds WERE deposited in FDIC institutions, they were massed into large deposits and the users were actually unsecured creditors who were NOT first in line to collect from the bankruptcy. New is not necessarily better.

But why would a merchant pay Zelle or Venmo? Don't they charge as well? Our property tax payments system just has you type in your routing number and account number.

 

[Talent312]

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."
----------------------
Once, I went to a pharmacy (CVS) and presented a paper Rx that called for 30 pills. When I got home, I checked the bottle. There were only -2- pills in it. Smartly, I had kept a copy of the Rx. I showed it to the clerk, pointed to the number 30, showed him the label on the bottle that said -2-, and asked, "Can you see the steam coming out from my ears?" They chalked it up to a computer error.

 

[DrQ]

But why would a merchant pay Zelle or Venmo? Don't they charge as well?

The merchant wouldn't pay - they would charge the customer too, like the card interchange fee. That's why I opted for the check to save ~$50 on the purchase.

Our property tax payments system just has you type in your routing number and account number.

That's ACH and I'm not going to give every Tom, Dick and Henrietta vendor with whom I deal my checking account details. My lawn mower contractor just sent me an email begging me to submit payments through their online system which uses ACH or charges 3% on Credit Card payments and I will NOT give them my checking info to avoid the fee. I could set up a bastion checking/savings account in another bank for outgoing ACH payments or debit card, but I will only do that if vendors stop accepting checks.

 

[Snazzylass]

This is why I keep on top of my checks:

Wells Fargo denies $28K refund after check altered, cashed by mail thieves

Mail thieves stole a couple's property tax payment from the mail, wrote in their own name and cashed the $28,000 check. Wells Fargo says it's too late to get a refund.

abc7chicago.com

Wells Fargo pointed to its 42-page deposit account agreement, which says customers must review bank statements each month and report unauthorized payments within 30 days -- or lose rights to a claim.​

Well....yes! That seems reasonable.

Multiple times I've seen Peloton customers complain that they were charged for 2 accounts for months or years...yeah, the customer must review their statements.

I'm with you though. I am very protective of allowing access to my checking account. I avoid using Zelle. I rarely use Venmo or Cash app and when I do, it's family or friends.

The service fees! Oy vey!

 

[x3 skier]

Pretty easy using my Apps to daily check transactions rather than waiting for the monthly statement. I do cross check the paper statement as a backup.

 

[PigsDad]

Pretty easy using my Apps to daily check transactions rather than waiting for the monthly statement. I do cross check the paper statement as a backup.

You get a paper statement? How 1990's of you.

I really like some of the fraud prevention features that the banks have these days. I can get a quick notification on my phone the instant any charge is made on my CC or bank account, or I can customize it to only transactions above a certain amount, etc. Very useful.

Kurt

 

[BJRSanDiego]

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."
----------------------
Once, I went to a pharmacy (CVS) and presented a paper Rx that called for 30 pills. When I got home, I checked the bottle. There were only -2- pills in it. Smartly, I had kept a copy of the Rx. I showed it to the clerk, pointed to the number 30, showed him the label on the bottle that said -2-, and asked, "Can you see the steam coming out from my ears?" They chalked it up to a computer error.

Once I went to a pharmacy to pick up Oxycodone (a highly controlled pain reliever/narcotic).for a family member When I got home the prescription was short several pills. I called the pharmacist and complained/challenged him. He said that at the end of the night that they would perform an inventory of those drugs. Surprise! In the morning he called me and told me that yes, they had shorted me. I have always wondered if the pharmacist was a user, a seller, or just inept.

 

[easyrider]

I had some work done on the house done by a company that is part of a franchise. I presented the technician a check for $1,XXX.xx which I entered into Quicken and printed out on my laser printer, so legibility is not an issue. I used a check because of the 3% service fee they charged on credit card transactions.

I download transactions into Quicken daily and noticed that my account was debited for only $XXX.xx. I waited a week to see if there were any updates to the transaction. I went to my bank to report the error and they say that the Check Clearing System only cleared $XXX.xx, so the error is not on my bank's end. I cannot determine from the back of the check, the institution the check was originally presented.

Given that there is an image in the ACH system for a check for $1,XXX.xx, I'm very reluctant to pay another $1K until I can be assured that the original check is dead and buried.

Being honest, I'm thinking that the best course of action is to write the home office of the franchise saying that I have noticed the error and I will provide them the documentation to fight the mistake with their institution within their terms of their account.

It sounds very scamy to me. There is a debit scam going around right now. Be careful.

Bill

Bradley University student loses almost $10K in fake Chase Bank debit card scam

A new twist to a banking scam is on the rise: Criminals will try to get the personal identification number, or PIN, to your debit card and may even tell you to put your debit card in your own mailbox.

abc7chicago.com

 

[DrQ]

It sounds very scamy to me.

I viewed the check online and it has not been altered. I print it out on a laser printer and while it is not impossible to wash, it is more difficult than a check written with solvent based inks.

 

[Talent312]

You get a paper statement? How 1990's of you.

My bank charges $3 for a mailed paper statement.
They say: "You can look at and print any e-document for free."

 

[easyrider]

I viewed the check online and it has not been altered. I print it out on a laser printer and while it is not impossible to wash, it is more difficult than a check written with solvent based inks.

On payer end everything appears proper. On the payee end everything appears wrong. This scenario could be a fake payment scam. The scammer uses incorrect data to cause a problem that requires personal information to fix them. They then use this personal information to acquire other data that can allow them access which is where they rip you off.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

They then use this personal information to acquire other data that can allow them access which is where they rip you off.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Look up CISSP.

 

[TolmiePeak]

That's ACH and I'm not going to give every Tom, Dick and Henrietta vendor with whom I deal my checking account details.

Doesn't that happen everytime someone writes check in public?