At what point would you stop payment?

[PigsDad]

Yes, MF rates do vary. I think it boils down to the Management company. Some are great at keeping costs competitive and some are terrible. That’s why I think a close look at the Management company is more important than the actual resort. Many locales have plenty of choices so if one Management company is better than another, you are best going with them.

I agree. I like your idea of having some kind of way to review / rate management companies, as that would be very useful information for buyers. The difficult part is that it seem management companies are constantly changing, buyouts occur, etc. and would be hard to keep up-to-date information.

Kurt

 

[Fredflintstone]

I agree. I like your idea of having some kind of way to review / rate management companies, as that would be very useful information for buyers. The difficult part is that it seem management companies are constantly changing, buyouts occur, etc. and would be hard to keep up-to-date information.

Kurt

Yes, management companies do change but an up to date database on them could keep up with it somewhat. It’s better than having no information at all.

As for Hawaii, you are right. Prices do vary a lot depending on location. @slip bought a condo for I think 140 k in Molokai and from the pictures he shared, it was Ocean front. I am not sure if he got Ocean view or not. But the place had a nice pool with a gorgeous ocean view.

Waikiki is a whole other story. Prices get get 500 k plus in old places like the Illikai.

I know Maui varies a lot too. In Hana, my friend bought a 2 bedroom condo with Ocean view for 175 k. Yes, go to Lahaina and expect to pay more. So, they are out there. One just needs to be a bit flexible and scour the deal.


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[DeniseM]

If you are looking for a strong rental, Molokai and Hana are not what you want to buy.

 

[Fredflintstone]

If you are looking for a strong rental, Molokai and Hana are not what you want to buy.

That’s true. They are harder to rent as people prefer the Waikiki and Ka’anapali beaches. This really stems on their lack of knowledge of Hawaii. More seasoned visitors know there are plenty of gem beaches out there that aren’t commercialized. My personal favourites are the beaches north shore Kauai past hanelei bay. Go to Piai area in Maui and there are some beauties there too and prices to stay are lower.




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[DeniseM]

My favorite island is Kauai - but if I were buying a condo to rent, that would not influence my decision. Remember how you became disenchanted with timesharing? The exact same thing will happen with a condo, if you don't approach it as a business decision. In fact, owning a condo is much more complicated, and a lot more can go wrong. Don't forget that you will have HOA fees, too.

 

[Fredflintstone]

My favorite island is Kauai - but if I were buying a condo to rent, that would not influence my decision. Remember how you became disenchanted with timesharing? The exact same thing will happen with a condo, if you don't approach it as a business decision. In fact, owning a condo is much more complicated, and a lot more can go wrong. Don't forget that you will have HOA fees, too.

All good points. However, I am stretched to find a condo to purchase that has 2 k per week maintenance fees. Most HOA fees are 300 to 400 a month. Even though I have more work, I also have more control. Also, the resale end is much better than timeshare. There is though something to be said for turnkey.

You are right on the business end. That is my strong suit. I do look before leaping. I know that if I pay about 200 to 250 k I can afford to use it and let it sit when I’m not there. If I go high demand, I am forced to get it rented to help cover costs. Plus, I would pay cash. With the higher demand areas, I would have to mortgage.

A lot to think about.


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[slip]

Denise has a very good point. My condo on Molokai will get some rental income but will only come close to covering the maintenance fees. I took all this into account and we’re fine with no rental income but it’s nice to get something. This works great for us since my wife will be retiring in three years and I will be retiring in about six years plus that’s where we will retire to.

The rental game is tough with lots of competition. You have to price competitively, you can’t price rentals on what you want or need to get. Maintenance fees can be very high and extremely tough to cover in some areas. Oceanfront doesn’t guarantee you anything either because of the competition.

If We weren’t going to retire on Molokai, We wouldn’t have bought the condo. Timeshares would have made more sense with less hassle.

We ended out paying $130,000 for an oceanview one bedroom at an oceanfront resort but we found someone ready to sell. It was on the market a long time. Other comparables were going for $40,000 more. Oceanfronts are $50,000 to 100,000 more.

I Checked the rental history on the oceanfront units and they had between $2,000 and $6,000 more a year in rental income. That was the price we were willing to pay to be exactly where we want to be in the resort and that was important to us since we will be living there. Not to mention what we saved with the purchase price.

Everyone’s situation is different, just be prepared to look at everything from all angles. Only you can decide what’s right for you.

The view from my lanai on Molokai.

 

[jacknsara]

I'm glad that you have a plan that might work out better for you. But let's be honest here -- a $200K condo in Hawaii would be a pretty low end and definitely not near the beach. Comparing that to your typical Hawaii timeshare is an apples to oranges comparison. With the prices of real estate in Hawaii, can you even get a $200K condo? I would guess that a condo that is equivalent to an ocean-front timeshare would be in the $1 million range.

Kurt

Aloha,
Here's a condo at Kauai Beach Villas currently listed for $239K https://www.hawaiilife.com/mls/287024
The resort is on the ocean but the A building is near the mauka end of the resort
https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...!1s2018-11-18!8m2!3d22.0106388!4d-159.3406231
I have no idea the interior condition and agree that KBV is not a high end resort; however, I claim it is not a low end resort either.
We own timeshare units at the resort but have no ownership interest in the listing. I am not making a recommendation. I am only pointing out the availability at nearly $200K.
Jack

 

[Fredflintstone]

http://friendlyislerealty.com/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=380


Nice spot. Just for comparison, I found a corner unit, ocean front at your complex for 125 k. They are out there. 605 a month maintenance fee.

I do agree if you plan to live there, buying was the way to go. Rental competition is certainly there. I think that’s why I have been (through searching and searching) able to rent ocean front units for 150 a day, 900 a week or 3200 a month. In a sense, banking the 200 k and using income earned from investments to pay rent works as I am safe to say I can average 5 percent a year.

My banker sure thinks that way but he would lose some commission if I pull it out so he’s bias

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[slip]

Aloha,
Here's a condo at Kauai Beach Villas currently listed for $239K https://www.hawaiilife.com/mls/287024
The resort is on the ocean but the A building is near the mauka end of the resort
https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...!1s2018-11-18!8m2!3d22.0106388!4d-159.3406231
I have no idea the interior condition and agree that KBV is not a high end resort; however, I claim it is not a low end resort either.
We own timeshare units at the resort but have no ownership interest in the listing. I am not making a recommendation. I am only pointing out the availability at nearly $200K.
Jack

These don’t come open very often on Kauai at that price. It will probably sell fast. Go to a Hawaii realtor website and search for what’s for sale under $300,000. There aren’t many listings that aren’t vacant land.

The monthly HOA is listed at $1,056 on this listing and that maybe low. While I was looking, I often found incorrect information in the listings. Make sure you verify everything.

 

[MLR]

For me it would be three things.

#1 would be that we simply could no longer afford to pay it no matter what the amount was- low or high.

#2 Would be that the resort was going down hill, or made it difficult to enjoy our time there, ex: management issues.

#3 We just were no longer physically able to use it and could not get rid of it in the marketplace or through the resort itself.

I agree. But would say if our health fails, finances fail or maintenance fees climb to far. Our MF have gone up approx. $250 a year in the last ten years. Not sure if that is good, bad or ugly. But we like Paniolo Greens and acquired another FREE EOYO week to go along with the one we have. It is too far to go for one week. With two, we usually get some good weather. I can see the day coming when our kids won't let us travel ALONE - HA HA. Maybe they will feel sorry for the folks and tag along. IF/WHEN we can no longer travel - for any reason, we will give them away.

 

[slip]

I agree. But would say if our health fails, finances fail or maintenance fees climb to far. Our MF have gone up approx. $250 a year in the last ten years. Not sure if that is good, bad or ugly. But we like Paniolo Greens and acquired another FREE EOYO week to go along with the one we have. It is too far to go for one week. With two, we usually get some good weather. I can see the day coming when our kids won't let us travel ALONE - HA HA. Maybe they will feel sorry for the folks and tag along. IF/WHEN we can no longer travel - for any reason, we will give them away.

I always thought Paniolo Greens was under rated. You do have to drive more but it’s in a great area over there and close to Hapuna beach.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I agree. But would say if our health fails, finances fail or maintenance fees climb to far. Our MF have gone up approx. $250 a year in the last ten years. Not sure if that is good, bad or ugly. But we like Paniolo Greens and acquired another FREE EOYO week to go along with the one we have. It is too far to go for one week. With two, we usually get some good weather. I can see the day coming when our kids won't let us travel ALONE - HA HA. Maybe they will feel sorry for the folks and tag along. IF/WHEN we can no longer travel - for any reason, we will give them away.

That’s a good plan. As I recall, Paniolo greens is on the big island. Great views but not close to a beach. However, I think I golfed behind there and if memory serves me right, the course was wonderful.

Yes, many variables. You are smart going 2 weeks as I have always found one week not enough.

Based on what you said, it sounds like it’s well managed and thus costs aren’t an issue. Again, we go back to Management as a major consideration when buying a timeshare. I suppose this also applies to buying as well as 1 k MF fee is high but at least not 1 k or more a week.




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[slip]

http://friendlyislerealty.com/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=380


Nice spot. Just for comparison, I found a corner unit, ocean front at your complex for 125 k. They are out there. 605 a month maintenance fee.

I do agree if you plan to live there, buying was the way to go. Rental competition is certainly there. I think that’s why I have been (through searching and searching) able to rent ocean front units for 150 a day, 900 a week or 3200 a month. In a sense, banking the 200 k and using income earned from investments to pay rent works as I am safe to say I can average 5 percent a year.

My banker sure thinks that way but he would lose some commission if I pull it out so he’s bias

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This unit looks familiar. Before I left to look at the resort, this was the unit that was at the top of our list. It was listed at $135,000 at the time. It’s an end unit which meant you could have a washer and dryer in the unit. Third floor was nice and it has a good angle for the ocean view. It’s in the B building which is angled to take advantage of the trade winds so the unit will cool off nicely.

It ended out being the last one I looked at because someone was renting it. It was the biggest disappointment. It looked much better in the pictures. It was terrible seeing it live. My realtor actually took pictures while I was there so she could show the owner why they were priced too high. They dropped the price $10,000 just after I got back from that trip.

The kitchen and bath were all original and really needed a gut. While being able to add a washer and dryer was a plus, it wasn’t that important with that unit because there is laundry on each floor and it was right outside this unit. It was on the third floor which is nice for the view and breezes but with no elevators we ruled the third floor out since we will be retiring there and just getting older.

Obviously, I really love this resort. They really keep it up nice and you know your in Hawaii as soon as you look off the lanai. It’s Molokai and I won’t get a ton of rentals but I can live with that.

 

[Fredflintstone]

This unit looks familiar. Before I left to look at the resort, this was the unit that was at the top of our list. It was listed at $135,000 at the time. It’s an end unit which meant you could have a washer and dryer in the unit. Third floor was nice and it has a good angle for the ocean view. It’s in the B building which is angled to take advantage of the trade winds so the unit will cool off nicely.

It ended out being the last one I looked at because someone was renting it. It was the biggest disappointment. It looked much better in the pictures. It was terrible seeing it live. My realtor actually took pictures while I was there so she could show the owner why they were priced too high. They dropped the price $10,000 just after I got back from that trip.

The kitchen and bath were all original and really needed a gut. While being able to add a washer and dryer was a plus, it wasn’t that important with that unit because there is laundry on each floor and it was right outside this unit. It was on the third floor which is nice for the view and breezes but with no elevators we ruled the third floor out since we will be retiring there and just getting older.

Obviously, I really love this resort. They really keep it up nice and you know your in Hawaii as soon as you look off the lanai. It’s Molokai and I won’t get a ton of rentals but I can live with that.

I can see why. You bought right and I’m sure will enjoy it for many years to come regardless of rental income. At your price point, you don’t need to sweat getting it rents to help cover costs. It’s affordable. Actually, I do plan on checking these out @slip. Thanks to you and your posts, you gave me an added place to look.




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[slip]

I can see why. You bought right and I’m sure will enjoy it for many years to come regardless of rental income. At your price point, you don’t need to sweat getting it rents to help cover costs. It’s affordable. Actually, I do plan on checking these out @slip. Thanks to you and your posts, you gave me an added place to look.




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I hope you keep us posted on what you’re looking at and how it’s going. I really enjoyed my experience during our search and it was fun sharing it here in TUG.

Just for reference, the listing below will get you between $6,000 and $8,000 a year in rentals. It’s updated and still would still be very easy to put your own stamp on it. It’s been on the market over four months now.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7142-Kamehameha-V-Hwy-203A_Kaunakakai_HI_96748_M74801-79499?view=

As for the other islands, like DeniseM says Kauai has less demand than Maui or Oahu. Kauai is still very rentable and you may be able to get the numbers to work but all your numbers will be higher.

If you want to go a little cheaper, I would concentrate on Maui. There is more affordable inventory there. Plus the inventory is more varied so you will have more different choices.

I’ll see if I can find a few of the listings we were considering. Some of the ones we were looking at were not vacation rentals since we planned to live there but we looked at vacation rentals too.

 

[WalnutBaron]

I disagree. If you compare hotel rates from 2008 (just before the Great Recession) to hotel rates today, it there is no question that hotel rates have risen MUCH more slowly that timeshare maintenance fees, at least for Marriott timeshares. When hotel rates were actually going down 8-10 years ago, maintenance fee increases did not slow down and even accelerated in many cases.

You must not be talking about hotel rates in cities like San Francisco, Seattle, or Washington, D.C. In San Francisco, for example, average rates in 2013 ranged from $180 per night in January (low season) to $327 in August (high season). In 2018, rates have increased to $325 in January and $480 in August. DW and I used to enjoy brief weekend getaways to San Francisco, especially if we had Giants or Warriors tickets. No longer. Way too expensive.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I hope you keep us posted on what you’re looking at and how it’s going. I really enjoyed my experience during our search and it was fun sharing it here in TUG.

Just for reference, the listing below will get you between $6,000 and $8,000 a year in rentals. It’s updated and still would still be very easy to put your own stamp on it. It’s been on the market over four months now.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7142-Kamehameha-V-Hwy-203A_Kaunakakai_HI_96748_M74801-79499?view=

As for the other islands, like DeniseM says Kauai has less demand than Maui or Oahu. Kauai is still very rentable and you may be able to get the numbers to work but all your numbers will be higher. If you want to go a little cheaper, I would concentrate on Maui. There is more affordable inventory there. Plus the inventory is more varied so you will have more different choices. I’ll see if I can find a few of the listings we were considering. Some of the ones we were looking at were not vacation rentals since we planned to live there but we looked at vacation rentals too.

Awesome. Yes I will share the journey. I have to deal with dad and his cancer then fly in for a look. My banker won’t like me getting the funds ready . He likes the commission.

If the price point is right, I won’t need to rent it out. I have enough family who would drool on using it. My 3 adult kids for starters.

But point taken on Maui if I want to go the rental route. Denise did give good advice.


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[slip]

Awesome. Yes I will share the journey. I have to deal with dad and his cancer then fly in for a look. My banker won’t like me getting the funds ready . He likes the commission.

If the price point is right, I won’t need to rent it out. I have enough family who would drool on using it. My 3 adult kids for starters.

But point taken on Maui if I want to go the rental route. Denise did give good advice.


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For us the time was right and we were lucky to be in position to be able to pull the trigger when the market was right. We were at a now or never time in Our lives.

Oahu would be the same way but with even higher numbers. Maui maybe a good balance.

Your right with others wanting to come. I already have three weeks rented from people I work with. They are all extending their vacations from either Kauai or Maui.

If you don’t want to rent Molokai is at a great price point but you have to like the slow paced, small rural island with limited amenities. You can’t change Molokai, it has to change you.

 

[Fredflintstone]

For us the time was right and we were lucky to be in position to be able to pull the trigger when the market was right. We were at a now or never time in Our lives.

Oahu would be the same way but with even higher numbers. Maui maybe a good balance.

Your right with others wanting to come. I already have three weeks rented from people I work with. They are all extending their vacations from either Kauai or Maui.

If you don’t want to rent Molokai is at a great price point but you have to like the slow paced, small rural island with limited amenities. You can’t change Molokai, it has to change you.

Slow pace . Naw, as I get older, I welcome slow pace. When I was a kid, I used to enjoy my dads farm. It had a grainery as accommodation, a well, no power, just a propane stove. Those were the best years and I’m sure Molokai is a step up from that.




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[slip]

Slow pace . Naw, as I get older, I welcome slow pace. When I was a kid, I used to enjoy my dads farm. It had a grainery as accommodation, a well, no power, just a propane stove. Those were the best years and I’m sure Molokai is a step up from that.




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I would definitely put Molokai on your list then. I always give a ton of information to everyone that talks about going there because it’s not for everyone. One thing I have found though, is that a lot a people are looking for the Molokai type vacation.

I always did the same when people I know went to Kauai because it is laid back. Molokai is on a whole new level though.

 

[DeniseM]

We have been to Molokai and enjoyed it, but you should visit there before you buy there. Molokai has no tourist infrastructure and almost all of the stores are of the "mom and pop" variety. There are no major grocery stores, or chain stores. It's like a tiny isolated town in the south, set in Hawaii.

 

[Fredflintstone]

We have been to Molokai and enjoyed it, but you should visit there before you buy there. Molokai has no tourist infrastructure and almost all of the stores are of the "mom and pop" variety. There are no major grocery stores, or chain stores. It's like a tiny isolated town in the south, set in Hawaii.

Yes, I have been there about 10 years ago tenting it on a beach north shore . In my mind it’s probably the last old Hawaii left. I love the peace and quiet but I do know that would drive many crazy.


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[WinniWoman]

I always thought Paniolo Greens was under rated. You do have to drive more but it’s in a great area over there and close to Hapuna beach.

Yes! We stayed there years ago and I really liked it and the location as well. Wish we lived closer to Hawaii!

 

[WinniWoman]

Yes, I have been there about 10 years ago tenting it on a beach north shore . In my mind it’s probably the last old Hawaii left. I love the peace and quiet but I do know that would drive many crazy.


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Quiet is your friend. Take it from me- a person who lives like a hermit in the woods. Wonderful.