aruba, bad news

[Transit]

Oddly enough Dubai expansions are on target.It's all about the $$$$$$

 

[LisaRex]

DAMN, DAMN, DAMN!! (And I am trying to be nice about it!)

You're preaching to the choir here. My advice is to let Starwood know how you feel!

 

[grgs]

We were really looking forward to Aruba being built. There has not been any new Starwoods on the East Coast since Atlantis. All the "new" resorts have been out west - Cabo (1), Arizona (1), Cancun (1), Hawaii (2), California (1), Colorado (1).

I feel your pain. Even though Aruba wasn't on my list, I thought it would be nice for East Coast owners. I will quibble a bit about how well the West Coast is being served:

Cabo (one I was looking forward to) has been delayed:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64590

Arizona is a fractional project, and so doesn't benefit "regular" SVO owners.

Cancun based on my geography benefits the East Coast more than the West.

I'll give you Hawaii, California, & Colorado.

What really concerns me is the thought that maybe SVO is not doing at all well as a result of the general economic downtown. Do these cancellations/delays (Aruba & Cabo) mean something bigger than just the problems with the specific projects? Perhaps Starwood is not wanting to invest as much in SVO?

Glorian

 

[tomandrobin]

I feel your pain. Even though Aruba wasn't on my list, I thought it would be nice for East Coast owners. I will quibble a bit about how well the West Coast is being served:

Cabo (one I was looking forward to) has been delayed:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64590

Arizona is a fractional project, and so doesn't benefit "regular" SVO owners.

Cancun based on my geography benefits the East Coast more than the West.

I'll give you Hawaii, California, & Colorado.

What really concerns me is the thought that maybe SVO is not doing at all well as a result of the general economic downtown. Do these cancellations/delays (Aruba & Cabo) mean something bigger than just the problems with the specific projects? Perhaps Starwood is not wanting to invest as much in SVO?

Glorian

I was refering to Kierland in Arizona (2004) and forgot Mission Hills (2002)

Since 2001, when Harborside opened, there has not been anything new on the East Coast. Everything has just been an expansion of an existing resort. So by my count since 2001, its East Coast 1, West Coast 9 or 10.

And three years ago, I thought there might have been interest in Starwood adding in Europe, especially after the LeMeridian purchase.

 

[grgs]

I was refering to Kierland in Arizona (2004) and forgot Mission Hills (2002)

Since 2001, when Harborside opened, there has not been anything new on the East Coast. Everything has just been an expansion of an existing resort. So by my count since 2001, its East Coast 1, West Coast 9 or 10.

And three years ago, I thought there might have been interest in Starwood adding in Europe, especially after the LeMeridian purchase.

Fair enough--I wasn't looking that far back. I still say Cancun is more East than West, though.

Glorian

 

[mindy35]

Here is a copy of an email I just sent to Starwood. The more I know about Starwood, the more I wish I had bought with Marriott.

***

I've heard through the grapevine that the Westin Aruba project has been scrapped. This is very disheartening as the Aruba project was one of the few developments that I was excited about.

What is equally disheartening is the utter lack of communication from Starwood to its owners about Starwood's decision to pull out of this project. It's sad that we owners have to read about it via internet message boards as there is not a word about it on MyStarCentral.com. I see that you did finally remove it from the list of resorts, but without a word of explanation on the "news" section. Nor did you choose to mention it in your e-mailed newsletter. You do realize that the scrapping of a proposed development is newsworthy, don't you?

One of the reasons I purchased at the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resorts Villas was its participation in SVN. What good is having an internal trading system, and being forced to pay for membership in this trading system, if Starwood keeps pulling out of, or delaying, new developments?

I am continually amazed at the unprofessional way Starwood treats its owners. There is no excuse for this type of treatment.

The issue of disrespect for owners is mirrored in another recent TUG Starwood post regarding the reclassification (increasing) categories for many properties (please note that the page on the link supplied only covers the lowest category but there are other pages to be viewed for every SPG category through the drop down menu).

Now our SPG trade-in points are slowly and incrementally lessening in value. Making what was an iffy value before, now almost worthless.

Unless....which is unlikely......they increase the point value of converted units to match the increase in SPG redemption qualifications.

Yikes!

 

[LisaRex]

Now our SPG trade-in points are slowly and incrementally lessening in value. Making what was an iffy value before, now almost worthless.

Absolutely. But it makes me feel even better about my decision to buy resale as I don't have to grind my teeth every year as I see the conversion rate deflated.

Honestly, how can SVO even attempt to justify nearly $100k for a villa is beyond me? I'd hate to be a salesman these days.

 

[Blue Skies]

We were in Aruba last month, and I was amazed at the amount of construction going on. Here are the names of the projects I saw:

Divi Phoenix
Jardines del Mar
The Sands
Oceana
The Cliff
Acqua

Wow! That little island is going to be a lot more crowded in the future! I wonder if the plethora of new construction is one reason why Westin has put their plans in Aurba on hold?

 

[SDKath]

Absolutely. But it makes me feel even better about my decision to buy resale as I don't have to grind my teeth every year as I see the conversion rate deflated.

Honestly, how can SVO even attempt to justify nearly $100k for a villa is beyond me? I'd hate to be a salesman these days.

Those $100k weeks sell easily. I have two friends who bought fixed unit, fixed week 52s from developers. They see it as a STEAL for the amount of vacatin time they get out of it and the lack of hassles of owning an actual vacation home, etc. I think that is a different type of person (ie money is no object) than those of us searching eBay and reading TUG daily.

I actually wouldn't even mind the $100,000 price tag if I could be guaranteed of those darn MFs staying in place. The $2500+ MF yearly on those units are what get me. You are committed to paying that FOREVER! At 20% increase per year, it just becomes too much of a financial committment for me.

Katherine

 

[DavidnRobin]

20% - ok ok - let's not get to carried away...

 

[SDKath]

20% - ok ok - let's not get to carried away...

Here is a quote from the maintenance fee thread. It's the first one I found but I can look for more if you'd like.

Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral.

2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17. (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)

The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007. That represents a 27% increase.

 

[LisaRex]

According to Starwood, Aruba is still on. My initial email to them is below followed by Starwood's response:

Dear Starwood,

I've heard through the grapevine that the Westin Aruba project has been scrapped. This is very disheartening as the Aruba project was one of the few developments that I was excited about.

What is equally disheartening is the utter lack of communication from Starwood to its owners about Starwood's decision to pull out of this project. It's sad that we owners have to read about it via internet message boards as there is not a word about it on MyStarCentral.com. I see that you did finally remove it from the list of resorts, but without a word of explanation on the "news" section. Nor did you choose to mention it in your e-mailed newsletter. You do realize that the scrapping of a proposed development is newsworthy, don't you?

One of the reasons I purchased at the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resorts Villas was its participation in SVN. What good is having an internal trading system, and being forced to pay for membership in this trading system, if Starwood keeps pulling out of, or delaying, new developments?

I am continually amazed at the unprofessional way Starwood treats its owners. There is no excuse for this type of treatment.

Lisa xxx,

***********

Starwood's response:

Dear Mrs. xxx,

Thank you for your contacting Westin Vacation Ownership. We welcome the opportunity to assist you.

Unfortunately the grapevine does not always have correct information. We are glad you contacted us to set the record straight. The Aruba project is still on schedule and still going to open in 2010. The planning process and getting permits took a little longer then expected, but the project is still a go.

Since the resort is not yet open, we found owners getting confused and asking to make reservations only to find out it won't open until 2010. As the reservation windows open up to make reservations that resort will return back to the list of resorts.

We are opening two resorts this year in 2008. These are the Westin Princeville on Kuaui Hawaii and The Westin Lagunamar in Cancun. In early 2009 we have the Westin Steam Boat Springs in Steamboat Springs Colorado and the Westin Riverfront in Avon Colorado.

We have an internet communications team that monitors message boards to make sure we can address any issues people are venting about without giving us an opportunity to correct it, or incorrect rumors. If you don't mind us asking, which message board do you see this incorrect rumor about the project being cancelled?

Should you need further assistance, please contact Owner Services at 800.847.8262 in the U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico, 0.800.89.5065 in the United Kingdom, 001.800.847.8262 from Mexico and 407.903.4640 for all other areas. Owner Services is available Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. and Saturday through Sunday, 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Eastern time.

 

[tomandrobin]

Alright! Great job Lisa, this certainly is good news.

Everyone has been beating up on Starwood, so its good read something positive!!!

 

[SDKath]

Sounds like someone needs to get this straight on not only this message board but all the praces articles are appear. Somehow I am just not buying their response. I dunno. Maybe I am a cynic.

Also, isn't this a little unprofessional to write as a representative of a large organization: "we can address any issues people are venting about". HUH? Are you sure this was written by someone at Starwood who knows something??

Somehow I am just not buying their response. I dunno. Maybe I am a cynic. Or I am just shocked by their lack of professionalism.


Katherine

 

[DavidnRobin]

Here is a quote from the maintenance fee thread. It's the first one I found but I can look for more if you'd like.

Sheraton Mountain Vista maintenance fees finally up on MyStarcentral.

2 bedroom lockoff went from 847.35 to 1050.17. (All numbers include taxes but exclude ARDA and SVN fees.)

The fees excluding taxes are 976.34 for 2008 versus 765.85 for 2007. That represents a 27% increase.

I am not saying that there haven't been 20%+ increases in some cases - but as discussed on the MF thread - the average increase has been more around 10% (still too high...) - I posted these for WKORV, WKV, and WSJ.

 

[pointsjunkie]

as the OP i did say the project was on hold not cancelled.and i was told 2010 was iffy, which i am sure it still is. just glad i didn't wait to get to 5*.

home from sunny florida tomorrow.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Alright! Great job Lisa, this certainly is good news.

Everyone has been beating up on Starwood, so its good read something positive!!!

I also thought that stating here on TUG that SVO was scrapping Aruba - was jumping the gun... not only do we need to watch out for misinfo that TS sales gives out, but also at times here on TUG. I always read this as teh project was delayed - and not abandoned.

 

[rocky]

We have an internet communications team that monitors message boards to make sure we can address any issues people are venting about without giving us an opportunity to correct it, or incorrect rumors. If you don't mind us asking, which message board do you see this incorrect rumor about the project being cancelled?

Oh please. We all know Starwood reads TUG. This statement seems very disingenious, or suggests the customer relations agents who reply to these emails know very little about their own sources for client intelligence.

From my perspective, SVO appears to care very little setting rumors straight. I have never seen them "address any issues people are venting about without giving us an opportunity to correct it".

But I would invite SVO to "address and correct" the starpoints devaluation issue that has been repeatedly noted by SVO owners. (oh there I go.... bringing that up again!

 

[LisaRex]

I might be cynical, too, but I'm also not buying the excuse as to why the Aruba resort was removed from the list of resorts. They diligently marketed both WKORV-N and Princeville, and kept them on their list of resorts, for years before they were actually built. Now they say they are removing Aruba because people kept calling trying to make reservations....? How about a simple sentence added to the Starwood homepage, "Accepting reservations in mid 2009!"

If 2010 is still on, then they should be marketing the property now. If it doesn't appear on the public website, the one that new prospects would visit, IMO that speaks volumes about the true disposition of the property.

 

[GrayFal]

According to Starwood, Aruba is still on. My initial email to them is below followed by Starwood's response:

Dear Mrs. xxx,

Thank you for your contacting Westin Vacation Ownership. We welcome the opportunity to assist you.

Unfortunately the grapevine does not always have correct information. We are glad you contacted us to set the record straight. The Aruba project is still on schedule and still going to open in 2010. The planning process and getting permits took a little longer then expected, but the project is still a go.

Since the resort is not yet open, we found owners getting confused and asking to make reservations only to find out it won't open until 2010. As the reservation windows open up to make reservations that resort will return back to the list of resorts.

I sure hope so .... maybe I will hang onto all my Starwood weeks after all - I was going to sell one because Aruba was cancelled ...... so MANY decisions.....

 

[tomandrobin]

I sure hope so .... maybe I will hang onto all my Starwood weeks after all - I was going to sell one because Aruba was cancelled ...... so MANY decisions.....

My next Starwood vacation is in June. I think I'll have to sit thru an owners update just to get the "Starwood Version" of Aruba.

 

[pointsjunkie]

i will be in arizona in march, so i will pick their brain on the aruba subject.

 

[GrayFal]

i will be in arizona in march, so i will pick their brain on the aruba subject.

My next Starwood vacation is in June. I think I'll have to sit thru an owners update just to get the "Starwood Version" of Aruba.

Thanks!
My FIRST Starwood vacation is in September - but I will be at the Aruba Marriott for 2 weeks in March - and I will be strolling down my favorite beach to the Westin to check things out!

 

[tomandrobin]

Thanks!
My FIRST Starwood vacation is in September - but I will be at the Aruba Marriott for 2 weeks in March - and I will be strolling down my favorite beach to the Westin to check things out!

Yes, on the spot reporting! I like it!

 

[LisaRex]

A Starwood rep called me a few moments ago to clarify some misinformation I had received. She said that the SVO rep who e-mailed me (copied and pasted above) saying that the 2010 date was still a go was misinformed. "Due to unforeseen delays, the Aruba project has been indefinitely delayed."

I impressed upon her the need for people who live on the Eastern side of the U.S. to have somewhere to trade into. She said she understands and that there are many projects in the pipeline, but none are definite so she cannot divulge which locations they are looking at.

She said they are considering whether to add this information to the MyStarCentral site. Not sure why this would be debatable, as I'm all for open communications, but there you have it.

Bummer. That 3 bdrm villa was looking sweet!