Are any timeshare systems seeing an appreciation in value over 15 years ago?

[heathpack]

In 2009, during black friday sale, prices of VGC came down to $90 with all incentives.

Wish I bought more just like you wished. With a 4 year old and economy going bad from housing crisis, wife and I decided it was not prudent to use most of our cash reserves to buy the VGC points we wanted. We settled for half and wish we just went with our first instinct. Just like buying stocks and homes during housing crisis. Wish we bought more, but glad we at least bought some. At the time, we made the most prudent choice and would do the same again knowing it could have gone the other way.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

We bought 25 HHI points from my cousin because we wanted to buy VGC points and rumor was they’d be offered first to DVC members and might sell out before getting to John Q Public.

Then we got spooked by the economy, held off on buying for a year or so, and finally bought resale at $82/pt. It’s been our best timeshare buy by a good margin!

 

[louisianab]

I bought Kingsgate and Patriot's Place and Smoky Mountains back then, and they were not free. I had a lot of great advice on TUG as to what we should buy, and lower MF's was the goal. We spent a lot of money on those deeds. I have some of the paperwork saved on my computer. $6,000 for a 310,000 Smoky Mountains. Angel Fire was almost that much for 154,000 points, but we are keeping Angelfire. It's too cheap in MF's to give away. I also paid $3,000 for 238K Kingsgate.

Wyndham is a fairly good product. I like that they keep the fees under control. I think the resorts individually are very well managed. They have gone too long between updates at some resorts. Bali Hai really needs an update for some of the more worn units. We own there, so I can comment on that. Panama needs major updates, and I think that's happening now. I am anxious to go back again and stay.

Pagosa Springs had a mixed bag of units both times we stayed. Now I ask for Peregrine ahead of time. I am not staying in an old unit with dangerous stairs. I heard that one is getting updated, Village Pointe.

I got Kingsgate and Patriot Place for free in 2013, along with some Branson's in 2015. not quite as far back, but still almost 10 years at a price of $0

 

[rickandcindy23]

I got Kingsgate and Patriot Place for free in 2013, along with some Branson's in 2015. not quite as far back, but still almost 10 years at a price of $0

I guess depreciation isn't a factor, when you get something for $0. I had some good advice back when I bought from BocaBum99 and another person. I think the other person on TUG's name was Jya-ning. Very helpful.

 

[rickandcindy23]

We bought 25 HHI points from my cousin because we wanted to buy VGC points and rumor was they’d be offered first to DVC members and might sell out before getting to John Q Public.

Then we got spooked by the economy, held off on buying for a year or so, and finally bought resale at $82/pt. It’s been our best timeshare buy by a good margin!

I was so tempted to buy VGC resale back then. Should have! You have something very valuable. The new Disneyland hotel points are very expensive to buy and fees are high + extra taxes on top. So expensive!

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is the time to buy anything your little heart desires in timeshare because prices are at an all time low.

If I had a magic 8 ball, I would have deeded back all of our Wyndham 2 years ago. I would have told Wyndham to take it all back and gotten out cleanly and completely. They froze our accounts for 60 days once. I have points galore, no use for them with our future travel plans. Sure, we are going to Orlando next month and staying at Bonnet Creek, but that is a miniscule amount. We have taken other trips as well, including Shearwater last month. Our kids are going to Steamboat in October. We have to add our own kids as guests, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ON THE DEEDS of our Bali Hai and Shearwater weeks. At least we have 45 guest certificates. I have used only one for this year.

I would not have purchased Shadow Ridge Villages. The value is in the toilet on those after the recent MF increases. I have plans for those weeks for 2026, I will rent them for MF's on RW. They are great traders, don't get me wrong, the absolute best for trading purposes, but the cost is high with upgrade fees and exchange fees.

I would have walked away from Blue Ridge Village after the first special assessment was announced. I can trade into that resort much cheaper than owning. It's a great place, but the fees are outrageous, as high as Marriott, and just under $3,000 in SA over 3 years. It's enough to make a person crazy. We are deeding that one back but have yet to hear from Bluegreen. We were forced to pay the last SA of July to get out from under it.

I have one Foxrun week 52, which I am giving away. It's a good trader, got it free, but not compared to Sheraton and Marriott. The fees are low, but week 52 doesn't tempt anyone for a good time to be at Lake Lure. Now it's managed by Capital Vacations. They are selling some point system. They want money to deed it back. I will keep it, if I must. It's always nice to have a 2 bedroom that doesn't require upgrade fees to get to Orlando.

 

[easyrider]

When our friends bought Hono Koa oceanfront, they paid something like $12,000. They bid the same amount of money on a Sands of Kahana 2 bedroom, which was not accepted through the broker they were using. SOK is free on ebay now. The generic timeshares are losing value to the minus column.

I bought our first Hono Koa every-other-year week for about $1,500 total with closing costs and the $550 transfer fee. That was 5 years after they bought. It was hard to find weeks and I checked ebay and RW often. We now have 2 even, 2 odd and one annual week to make a total of 3 weeks. Now, with the increases in fees, people are giving these away.

Presidential Villas at Grand Palms, AKA Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort, has had a downturn in value. People are giving the weeks away. I paid $2,500 to $3,000 for those. I have sold all but one of the weeks and have a person who will rent my last week every year, so it's not a big deal, but I hope to sell that last one. RCI devalued the week, going from 101 TPU's to 64 in one season. Those had fees of about $600 when we bought. 101 TPU's for $600. I remember it was $6 PP.

I did see many Maui timeshares going for nothing at timeshare nation. I had thought about taking the Napili Gardens unit but thought too long about it and it was gone.

Bill

 

[boyblue]

I believe the value of average TS units will eventually level out at somewhere above zero , it may take years but IMO a few things lead to this conclusion.

• Developers are not building anywhere near the rate they did in the infancy of TS, so demand will catch up with supply at some point.
• As a populace, we now research major purchases before we buy so new owners are less likely to be in a position where they don't know how to use what they bought and therefore less likely to want to get rid of it for little to nothing.
• The basic model is sound in comparison to hotels. There is so much stuff that hotels include that we don't need, and are unwilling to pay. Even with trading companies killing us with fees, TS comparative cost per night continues to be significantly lower.
• Airbnb's are a nice alternative, especially when there are no TS in the area you want to be, but as you all know it's a risky proposition. I don't see private vacation rentals as a reliable alternative so once the dust settles TS value will be affirmed.

 

[jp10558]

I'll repeat myself like I have each time I see this sort of thing mentioned. Timeshares aren't an investment, they're an analogue to Sam's Club for vacations, except with an initial buy in. The MFs are the yearly membership fee.

I see many claim you can just rent for similar to MFs, and that may be true, but those aren't the places I choose to own. I just got back from Vegas on the strip at Flamingo 2BR - there were no rentals offered for a week at that time, and I calculated it at $167 a night, which none of the shorter rentals came close to. Here we can discuss like for like issues - I didn't see any other timeshares that were on the strip at a casino than Elara, also HGVC and more expensive. I know the Marriott that was next to a casino there wouldn't rent cheaper. The cheaper options I considered, but the person I was taking did not want to stay off the strip, even a block. So that let out some of the great deals on Wyndhams etc. Even HGVC Boulevard was too far north from the casinos for what my mom wanted.

Even for off the strip, the RCI deals in Vegas are better than vacation rentals I've seen, many are available Last Calls for under $500 for 2BR for a week. Maybe you have a better "in" but I don't know of one and I semi regularly look to "prove the TUG wisdom 'right' and myself wrong". Orlando is the same way. More surprisingly to me is the deals at Smuggs in VT, Massanutten and Williamsburg in VA, Branson MO, etc. Other areas of FL when I've looked, like near Cape Canaveral etc still don't seem to swing vacation rentals way.

More in-demand locations still compare pretty well. I think I just found the first time where the AirB&B would save over the MFs and that's in New Orleans vs the Wyndham La Belle Masion, which coincidentally is the most expensive points reservation I've made yet. And that's still taking on the greater risk IMO of AirB&B that I'm not sure I want to ever do.

The main limitation is of course the locations. However, many of the locations are places I want to go, or places I'd never have considered without timeshares.

Hotels are so expensive and cramped that if I can avoid them I generally want too. Especially once you need 2 rooms.

I think the reason timeshares don't appreciate is still entirely the developers / retail sales being stupendously over priced, yet still very effective. I bet if everyone was buying at resale prices, there would be a lot less people getting "talked into" something they can't afford and probably less people trying to dump them. If you've got an additional $30k in your pocket up front, you've got more cash for MFs IMO.

That said, there will still always be people who are done with a timeshare and just want to pass it on. I guess if the retail sales were different and it was both easier to sell on a timeshare and the resales kept the benefits of the ownership we'd see more people buying with the MFs in mind and buying more like Sams Club memberships - the people who are going to use it and realize savings, and so not have masses wanting to get out in any possible way.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I can say that my Vanderbilt Beach and Harbor Club has gone up in value from what I paid for them 5 + years ago. I just had someone reach out to me and offer me $11K for a week I paid $4K for but its part of two weeks in the same unit that I own and I do not want to sell it...

 

[rickandcindy23]

@jp10558 I don't see anyone calling timeshares an investment. I don't even consider DVC or Westin oceanfront an investment. It's my plan to rent to cover maintenance fees on the points I want to use.

 

[4TimeAway]

That said, there will still always be people who are done with a timeshare and just want to pass it on. I guess if the retail sales were different and it was both easier to sell on a timeshare and the resales kept the benefits of the ownership we'd see more people buying with the MFs in mind and buying more like Sams Club memberships - the people who are going to use it and realize savings, and so not have masses wanting to get out in any possible way.

With Deeds I still things that "may" have arbitrage is you want to sit and wait. That said most shares of those are even very low value.

Investment is a fully word. Mostly we mean speculation. The value of a 50% less costly vacation and the excitement of looking forward to it does have some additional value.

What amazes me is that some people use Timeshares instead of RVs. I had never thought of doing any calculations on that.

 

[rickandcindy23]

RV's breakdown a lot. My mom and stepdad had one. It was a money pit.

We drive to/ from Orlando, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, California and Arizona in the car and use hotel points to stay nights on the drive.

 

[dioxide45]

@jp10558 I don't see anyone calling timeshares an investment. I don't even consider DVC or Westin oceanfront an investment. It's my plan to rent to cover maintenance fees on the points I want to use.

I would still call that an investment of some type. If you are renting for enough of a profit with some of your timeshare to cover the maintenance fee on all of your points, then you are earning revenue above and beyond the time you are renting out. The intended use of the funds doesn't change how you earned the money.

 

[jp10558]

With Deeds I still things that "may" have arbitrage is you want to sit and wait. That said most shares of those are even very low value.

Investment is a fully word. Mostly we mean speculation. The value of a 50% less costly vacation and the excitement of looking forward to it does have some additional value.

What amazes me is that some people use Timeshares instead of RVs. I had never thought of doing any calculations on that.

I mean, the legitimate sales pitch for timeshares is 7 day trips at pretty low prices. For me, leveraging the RCI cash deals or II getaways, when they work, they're usually less than 50% of the rental rates on say RedWeek. People are amazed at the amount of trips I do for 7 nights and I tell them the incremental cost for that week is usually sub $800 for a 2 bedroom. You usually can't ever book a Hampton Inn anymore for that.

I guess that makes in an asset more like a car - it depreciates, but overall saves you money or lets you do stuff you otherwise could not do.

 

[boyblue]

Market value is only a concern for marginal TS's, ones that are upside down in a sense, where cost of use is above the cost of a comparative rental. Thankfully I've never owned one, but I wonder how you get rid of one of those?

 

[gravityrules]

I mean, the legitimate sales pitch for timeshares is 7 day trips at pretty low prices. For me, leveraging the RCI cash deals or II getaways, when they work, they're usually less than 50% of the rental rates on say RedWeek. People are amazed at the amount of trips I do for 7 nights and I tell them the incremental cost for that week is usually sub $800 for a 2 bedroom. You usually can't ever book a Hampton Inn anymore for that.

I guess that makes in an asset more like a car - it depreciates, but overall saves you money or lets you do stuff you otherwise could not do.

I like your depreciating car analogy. There are a few vehicles, but very few at that, that reach a point in time where they start to increase in value. Most vehicles will reach the 'whatever a running vehicle is worth' floor at some point.

Is the equivalent TS value floor negative, i.e. not worth the MF cost?

I tend to think 'yes' but unlike the old vehicle which has a positive scrap value, there is usually a cost to dispose of the 'old' TS.

Like you, my overall cost is still low. I'm still averaging under $700/week over 15 years in 2 br units but it's not because my week ownership is worth the current $1500 MF. It's the arbitrage opportunities through exchange, bonus weeks, getaways, etc.
So I can't justify spending anything to get rid of what I have even though there are many better choices out there.

It's equivalent to the 'drive it until the wheels fall off' approach to vehicle ownership.

Yes, 2 of our 3 vehicles fit that description (1 of which has a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty, 15 years and still going!)