Are Abound Club Point exchanges a value? First glance.....no

[timsi]

I found some good Maui values if I exchange in my WKOVRN which gives me 8325 points. I can go to the Marriott Ocean Club old towers in the same category for a week for 6425 - 7800 in all weeks of the year except New Year’s week. I can go to Marriott Ocean Club in the new tower for 7450. These are all great values for the 2BR OF esp MOC in high and low season.

If you are fine with a 2BR garden view, you can book into Marriott Ocean Club old tower in Maui for as low as 4700 points and 2525 for a 1BR garden view. I can‘t see why these are not good values especially for Maui which is highest demand and hardest to get at 8 months with SOs. With Abound, you can book these at 12 months. Marriott releases half of its Maui inventory at 12 months.

Maybe an OK value for you if you deposit Maui but for the other Vistana owners, not so much, especially when you compare with the StarOptions chart.

 

[DanCali]

I found some good Maui values if I exchange in my WKOVRN which gives me 8325 points. I can go to the Marriott Ocean Club old towers in the same category for a week for 6425 - 7800 in all weeks of the year except New Year’s week. I can go to Marriott Ocean Club in the new tower for 7450. These are all great values for the 2BR OF esp MOC in high and low season.

If you are fine with a 2BR garden view, you can book into Marriott Ocean Club old tower in Maui for as low as 4700 points and 2525 for a 1BR garden view. I can‘t see why these are not good values especially for Maui which is highest demand and hardest to get at 8 months with SOs. With Abound, you can book these at 12 months. Marriott releases half of its Maui inventory at 12 months.

Not sure if you were responding to my comment on Maui being to expensive with points for my taste, but I'll bite anyway

My comment was specifically regarding Westin, which I can in theory book with 148,100 Staroptions (when my alternative is getting 4050 points with WKV).

As for Marriott Ocean Club - 4700 for a 2BR (Garden View) is not bad. But, as you said, it's "as low as $4700" and during summer break when I would typically go it's 5450 points. But it's also probably not as nice as the Westins, which would cost 7050 for summer break for a 2BR IV/OV. And, as I alluded in my previous post - the value of 7050 points is about $4900... I can probably rent a 2BR oceanview for most summer weeks for much less on RedWeek. In fact, even on rental value it's on par with WKV Platinum, so if it doesn't work with SO, cash is the ultimate equalizer!

See my point?

 

[daviator]

But it's also probably not as nice as the Westins, which would cost 7050 for summer break for a 2BR IV.

I own at the Westin (and have for almost 20 years.) My mom owns at Maui Ocean Club for about the same length of time. We often have big family trips where some of us are staying in my Westin units and others in the Marriott units, so I have been in both many times, as recently as a week ago.

MOC units – I’m referring to the legacy units in the original towers, which are hotel room conversions – aren’t nearly as nice as Westin units. They are decent sized, but a 2 BR unit is basically three old hotel rooms combined into one unit through connecting doors. There is a kitchenette but no actual kitchen, and there is no clothes washer or dryer (there is a laundry room down in the basement level for guests to use.) Decor and furnishings are a step or two down from the Westin. The units are comfortable, but for me they don’t compare.

The villa units in the newer tower are functionally more like the Westin units but I still don’t think they’re as nice.

I'm not slamming MOC, it’s a nice property and my family members have enjoyed it for decades. But it’s not directly comparable to the Westin.

 

[TravelTime]

Not sure if you were responding to my comment on Maui being to expensive with points for my taste, but I'll bite anyway

My comment was specifically regarding Westin, which I can in theory book with 148,100 Staroptions (when my alternative is getting 4050 points with WKV).

As for Marriott Ocean Club - 4700 for a 2BR (Garden View) is not bad. But, as you said, it's "as low as $4700" and during summer break when I would typically go it's 5450 points. But it's also probably not as nice as the Westins, which would cost 7050 for summer break for a 2BR IV/OV. And, as I alluded in my previous post - the value of 7050 points is about $4900... I can probably rent a 2BR oceanview for most summer weeks for much less on RedWeek. In fact, even on rental value it's on par with WKV Platinum, so if it doesn't work with SO, cash is the ultimate equalizer!

See my point?

View attachment 69733

I was not responding to your comment but instead to the theme of this thread. I see your point. You and I have replied to each other regarding your interest in renting your weeks vs my lack of interest in this. So I am just adding some feedback on the possible value.

A few points behind my comments:
- I have heard it is challenging to book Maui at 8 months using SOs.
- You can book with Abound at 12-13 months depending on where you want to stay.
- Some people who prefer using points over renting their units out will find value in being able to exchange their weeks to go someplace else. So even Maui can be “affordable.”
- While the old towers of MOC are not as nice as a unit with a full kitchen, it is still a great exchange at relatively low cost for Maui.

I think we want people reading this thread to know about possible good values. That is the purpose of this thread. These are really viable options to help people.

 

[timsi]

I really do not understand the issue some have with renting through Redweek. It is not like owning is without problems: you have to chase availability at midnight (and you have to know when to do it), IT system issues so booking or paying MF can be challenging at times, you have to wait for an hour to speak with a rep that is not always well trained and many other problems. Just because one or two TUGGers are not “comfortable” with renting, it does not mean it is not a great option for many people, not to mention the last-minute deals can be amazing, including for Maui

 

[ocdb8r]

...cash is the ultimate equalizer!

See my point?

I agree that people should be considering renting out their weeks as an alternative to exchanging as there are certainly some instances where it makes sense. I do struggle though that there are a multitude of posts on how much people can "get" for renting their week that never take into account the transactional costs and tax implications. You either report it and pay a chunk of income tax on it, or risk an audit...and with the IRS reporting changes around transactions, you can bet there's a higher risk than ever of an audit.

the value of 7050 points is about $4900

Not once you take into account any tax obligation to realize that value in cash.

 

[daviator]

I agree that people should be considering renting out their weeks as an alternative to exchanging as there are certainly some instances where it makes sense. I do struggle though that there are a multitude of posts on how much people can "get" for renting their week that never take into account the transactional costs and tax implications. You either report it and pay a chunk of income tax on it, or risk an audit...and with the IRS reporting changes around transactions, you can bet there's a higher risk than ever of an audit.



Not once you take into account any tax obligation to realize that value in cash.

Agreed. And in some areas, notably Hawaii, there are significant new taxes which those renting out timeshares are obligated to report and remit. Hawaii is becoming more aggressive about collecting these and the penalties for ignoring this obligation may be painful when they catch up with people somewhere in the future. In addition to the cost involved, the bureaucracy involved in registering for and submitting the regular tax reports to the state and county makes the whole thing a pain in the neck. Deciding to rent your ownership out is a more complex decision than it used to be (at least in some places.)

 

[TravelTime]

If cash is the great equalizer, then why buy timeshares? Seems to me like buying a timeshare is one of the worst things you could do with your money. For most people, the cash outlay to buy timeshares is very high. Most people have spent thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to buy timeshares. For most people, it is probably better to work at your job or invest in the stock market long term and use that cash to pay for your vacations.

 

[jeffm211]

If cash is the great equalizer, then why buy timeshares? Seems to me like buying a timeshare is one of the worst things you could do with your money. For most people, the cash outlay to buy timeshares is very high. Most people have spent thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to buy timeshares. For most people, it is probably better to work at your job or invest in the stock market and use that cash to pay for your vacations.

Agreed...not necessarily the best financial decision if you amortize in the initial costs. A decent decision if you look at vacation costs against MFs. For me, it was a great lifestyle decision & I didn't buy the first one until I was in my mid-60's.

 

[DanCali]

Not once you take into account any tax obligation to realize that value in cash.

You are correct I am ignoring tax implications because those will vary by state, by an individual's tax brackets, and rental costs including MFs. So, you can adjust the math by 10% to 50% as you feel. I won't ignore them in the rest of my post below, but I probably will in the future because of the great variation.

If cash is the great equalizer, then why buy timeshares? Seems to me like buying a timeshare is one of the worst things you could do with your money. For most people, the cash outlay to buy timeshares is very high. Most people have spent thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to buy timeshares. For most people, it is probably better to work at your job or invest in the stock market long term and use that cash to pay for your vacations.

Agreed...not necessarily the best financial decision if you amortize in the initial costs. A decent decision if you look at vacation costs against MFs. For me, it was a great lifestyle decision & I didn't buy the first one until I was in my mid-60's.

The only thing that is constant with owning a timeshare is paying maintenance fees. You pay that whether you use the timeshare, rent the timeshare, exchange in abound, exchange in II, bank usage to a future year, or let it go unused.

If you buy resale, you can justify the cost of a timeshare more easily. But rental values should matter in both decisions to buy and decisions how to use. For example, one should hesitate buying a timeshare in a location where rental values exceed maintenance fees, and it's less problematic and more attractive when rental values exceed maintenance fees substantially.

And here is how rental values can factor in a usage decision... Say you own an enrolled 2BR Platinum at Newport Coast Villas (MF=$1600, rental value of a summer week is around $3500, and you have a confirmed summer reservation). Now you want to exchange to go to Waiohai Villas on Kauai (all 2BR resort) for the same or earlier week in the summer. You can:

1) Try with Interval with request first (something you couldn't even do if Kauai reservation was later than Newport)
2) Trade in Abound for 3475 points, but it will only get you 5 nights Island View (4 nights in OV) at best due to MVC's preference of Hawaii weeks. Will need to rent extra points for 7 nights.
3) Rent out the Newport week (for around $3500) and rent the Kauai week from another owner (expected cost $4500 - for OV). Possible tax implications matter.
4) Direct exchange with another owner - not likely to happen.

The II option is the cheapest because it's a 2BR for 2BR with just the II Marriott to Marriott exchange cost, but you don't control the view you get, and you may not get the exchange at all. The Abound option would require another 1400 points (~$1000) for IV and 2400 points (~$1700) for OV, and is a reliable exchange at 12-13 months out. The rental option costs you an extra $1000 (maybe $1500 after taxes), but you can probably get an OV for that price and maybe negotiate the cost down. And now you can decide what to do... In this case, I would personally go with Abound for either IV or OV, even if rental beats OV by ~$200, because of convenience and certainty. Other may choose II because it's much less pricy. And someone whose week is not enrolled in Abound, may go the rental route over II due to more certainty.

In the choices above maintenance fees are irrelevant because you pay them no matter what you do for as long as you own your week. You can use them to figure out the "total cost" of your Hawaii vacation, and they will perhaps reduce your taxes, but they don't otherwise matter for the decision you make. The rental option is exactly that - just another usage option. In this case, it may not be superior to Abound. In other examples (like if I used WKORV instead of Waiohai as an example), it might be.

 

[timsi]

If cash is the great equalizer, then why buy timeshares? Seems to me like buying a timeshare is one of the worst things you could do with your money. For most people, the cash outlay to buy timeshares is very high. Most people have spent thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to buy timeshares. For most people, it is probably better to work at your job or invest in the stock market long term and use that cash to pay for your vacations.

If the thread is about value, and I do not see how we can avoid talking about $.

 

[pchung6]

I tried to look and like Abound, i can confirm Abound is really has no or very little value to Vistana owners. The only thing I like so far is free Titanium status, so i don't need force myself to stay 20+ nights/year at greedy Marriott hotel anymore. Nothing else I like about Abound. Vistana is just way better program, hope Marriott won't kill it. Vistana resorts are better than Marriott resorts too.