Anyone stopping their Maintenance Fees?

[andre10056]

BTW...because there is no mortgage, the likelihood that they will do anything other than take back the deed, is small.

Latest reporting here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Two more data points

tugbbs.com

Background here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com

Without spending a lot of time examining this data, the only thing I would say to this is that nationwide statistics may make something look a certain way but it may not be the case for the individual circumstances of any particular timeshare owner.

For example, how many of the timeshare owners that were not pursued for deficiency judgments after default might have owned timeshares in states (like Florida or South Carolina) where the "timeshare entity" could not pursue deficiency judgments by law? Maybe Grammarhero or whoever continued Grammarhero's work already subtracted out such states' timeshare owners to get a representative sample of only those timeshare owners that were "at risk". Maybe not.

Assuming collection cases must always be brought in the state where the timeshare owner lives, how many defaulting timeshare owners lived in states where attorney's fees are NOT awarded to the prevailing party? In Pennsylvania, for example, my understanding is that, no matter what, each side pays their own attorneys. Which makes it somewhat less likely that Pennsylvania residents will be pursued for unpaid maintenance fees.

How many defaulting timeshare owners were judgment proof so that a cursory pretrial investigation made it clear that no judgment could ever be collected from the zero asset, social security collecting person?

Etc.

 

[andre10056]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

Another thing to consider is making yourself judgment proof in the event that these demons...err...management companies... do, indeed, come after your estate after death.

I would talk to an elder law attorney about setting up something like an irrevocable trust, naming a trusted heir as the executor of the trust, and moving your assets into such trust. Or whatever the trust attorney may recommend.

It's not a bad idea in any case. For example, nursing homes are $16,000 per month nowadays. Medicaid may pay for it, but then come after your estate upon death to get reimbursed. But it your estate has nothing because you placed all your assets in such an irrevocable trust, and you're past the five year "lookback" period, they get nothing.

Again, I'm not an elder law or trust attorney, but it may be a good idea to talk to someone who is.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

Just stop paying the maintenance fees. No way should you pay them to take it back at those prices given your situation. HOA’s and/or Developers that try to take advantage of their owners like this deserve exactly what they get. Don’t feel guilty about the “hurting your fellow owners” spiel, that’’s just what irresponsible HOA’s say to try to force people like you to keep throwing good money after a bad asset. Those properties deserve to go under.

 

[LeslieDet]

I actually missed this post yesterday as I was in the middle of being "schooled" by Leslie.

It never seeks to amaze me how evil (and illogical) people can be.

I would suggest listening to CalGal.

Why are you such a jerk? the law is what it is. I was simply identifying that what you posted wasn’t an accurate statement at least in California. I don’t care what your opinion may be. Just because you reli upon AI, doesn’t make it accurate.

 

[andre10056]

Leslie, why don't you reread your posts and see if you had ever addressed the OP's original question through numerous posts. Instead, you wanted to prove how smart you were about nitpicking, unrelated, irrelevant details. That's called being "anal". So now you call ME a jerk. Fine. I'm a jerk. I'm so hurt.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My question here is this. How can the resort HOA get the “paid for deeded week” back legally in their name when my wife and I are both dead.? At what cost to them compared to when we are alive?

Through foreclosure, and only foreclosure, unless your executor pays the costly process of opening ancilliary probate in the state your timeshare is located to deed it back to them (which they should absolutely not do, it's lighting money on fire for no reason).

Ignore those who sit on HOA boards and tell you to keep paying in perpetuity for the good of the other owners. It's a ludicrous position to take. Contact your timeshare HOA or developer, tell them you're 85, and you are no longer paying, so they can have the timeshare back for free or they can pay to foreclose. Ignore the threats, etc., they are completely toothless, and just stop paying. Your absolute worst-case scenario is a foreclosure and a moderate credit hit, which you don't care about anyway given your age and life circumstances. Your most likely scenario is a foreclosure and no credit hit, since all you owe are maintenance fees. The odds of a deficiency judgment (which could only be for the maintenance fees anyway) are roughly the same odds as you being struck by lightning, and are very likely impossible depending on the jurisdiction.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FWIW I found @LeslieDet clarification post on California helpful. However the deeds are not in California so I suggest we move on.

I now think the HOA holds some responsibility and definitely the Developer (if that is not the same) for making this worthless. There are things they can do to add value for owners. I have witnessed this myself with the independent Craigendarroch Lodges in Scotland. Not only does the HOA have optional enrollment in HGVC for points as an affiliate, they recently added DEX exchange and also offer II enrollment, they offer an owner rental program and the units are up-to-date and well-maintained so they are popular rentals that earn more than MF. They keep maint fees low and are transparent with the owners. As a result the deeds for a 2 bdrm sell for about $5000 US. They have ROFR. And there easy surrender because it is an Right to Use instead of a deed.

The only reason the developers required a deed was to lock people in through excessive legal process to avoid walking. They could so they did. Now they get the pay the price of foreclosure to take back a worthless deed.

 

[Ski-Dad]

Why are you such a jerk? the law is what it is. I was simply identifying that what you posted wasn’t an accurate statement at least in California. I don’t care what your opinion may be. Just because you reli upon AI, doesn’t make it accurate.

I have read this entire thread. Your statements may very well be factually correct, but you have provided little to no advice to the OP. You have always made sure you have had the last word. Now stop and reflect for a moment: "Am I being helpful?"

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Another thing to consider is making yourself judgment proof in the event that these demons...err...management companies... do, indeed, come after your estate after death.

The only thing they would ever be able to come after the estate for would be the unpaid maintenance fees that they are currently paying anyway, and again, this scenario is so incredibly unlikely as to be functionally impossible.

And even if it were likely or possible (and it's really not either), do you think that a timeshare developer or HOA would actually do this? Imagine the bad press for a company or industry that already gets a lot of bad press. The time and effort involved would be ridiculous, the payout small, the odds of success vanishingly small, and the bad press huge.

Op really shouldn't lose sleep over this.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree. If they were pursued, it would be easy to tell the court that they made an egregious offer, they made it worthless, and you made every attempt to deed it back for free despite having paid $X upfront and MF for years. If it is listed in the will "as is", how can an HOA then require foreclosure or backpayment if steps were taken prior to this to give it back and you have it in writing that they refused? Shame on them.

 

[alwysonvac]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

If you still own your Diamond Maui deed week, you might be able to give it away via TUG's Free Timeshare Forum.
Don't know about your Fox Hills Resort in Mishicot, Wisconsin but it doesn't hurt to try. Looks like the deed back price was $2500/wk back in 2022. I'm assuming you own two of these for the $5K deedback price.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@alwysonvac great observation. @Walt I did not know you had a deeded week at KBC. That is worth something. You can easily give this away with buyer paying the $250 or so to LT transfers LTtransfers.com for the paperwork (or you pay it - much better than $5000), Deeds (not points collection) in Diamond will likely be taken if you post it on the free board.

IDK about your other deed as I have never heard of this resort. You may need to take the advice given earlier on walking away.