Anyone stop [paying] their Maintenance Fees?

[andre10056]

BTW...because there is no mortgage, the likelihood that they will do anything other than take back the deed, is small.

Latest reporting here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Two more data points

tugbbs.com

Background here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com

Without spending a lot of time examining this data, the only thing I would say to this is that nationwide statistics may make something look a certain way but it may not be the case for the individual circumstances of any particular timeshare owner.

For example, how many of the timeshare owners that were not pursued for deficiency judgments after default might have owned timeshares in states (like Florida or South Carolina) where the "timeshare entity" could not pursue deficiency judgments by law? Maybe Grammarhero or whoever continued Grammarhero's work already subtracted out such states' timeshare owners to get a representative sample of only those timeshare owners that were "at risk". Maybe not.

Assuming collection cases must always be brought in the state where the timeshare owner lives, how many defaulting timeshare owners lived in states where attorney's fees are NOT awarded to the prevailing party? In Pennsylvania, for example, my understanding is that, no matter what, each side pays their own attorneys. Which makes it somewhat less likely that Pennsylvania residents will be pursued for unpaid maintenance fees.

How many defaulting timeshare owners were judgment proof so that a cursory pretrial investigation made it clear that no judgment could ever be collected from the zero asset, social security collecting person?

Etc.

 

[andre10056]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

Another thing to consider is making yourself judgment proof in the event that these demons...err...management companies... do, indeed, come after your estate after death.

I would talk to an elder law attorney about setting up something like an irrevocable trust, naming a trusted heir as the executor of the trust, and moving your assets into such trust. Or whatever the trust attorney may recommend.

It's not a bad idea in any case. For example, nursing homes are $16,000 per month nowadays. Medicaid may pay for it, but then come after your estate upon death to get reimbursed. But it your estate has nothing because you placed all your assets in such an irrevocable trust, and you're past the five year "lookback" period, they get nothing.

Again, I'm not an elder law or trust attorney, but it may be a good idea to talk to someone who is.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

Just stop paying the maintenance fees. No way should you pay them to take it back at those prices given your situation. HOA’s and/or Developers that try to take advantage of their owners like this deserve exactly what they get. Don’t feel guilty about the “hurting your fellow owners” spiel, that’’s just what irresponsible HOA’s say to try to force people like you to keep throwing good money after a bad asset. Those properties deserve to go under.

 

[LeslieDet]

I actually missed this post yesterday as I was in the middle of being "schooled" by Leslie.

It never seeks to amaze me how evil (and illogical) people can be.

I would suggest listening to CalGal.

Why are you such a jerk? the law is what it is. I was simply identifying that what you posted wasn’t an accurate statement at least in California. I don’t care what your opinion may be. Just because you relied upon AI, doesn’t make it accurate.

 

[andre10056]

Leslie, why don't you reread your posts and see if you had ever addressed the OP's original question through numerous posts. Instead, you wanted to prove how smart you were about nitpicking, unrelated, irrelevant details. That's called being "anal". So now you call ME a jerk. Fine. I'm a jerk. I'm so hurt.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My question here is this. How can the resort HOA get the “paid for deeded week” back legally in their name when my wife and I are both dead.? At what cost to them compared to when we are alive?

Through foreclosure, and only foreclosure, unless your executor pays the costly process of opening ancilliary probate in the state your timeshare is located to deed it back to them (which they should absolutely not do, it's lighting money on fire for no reason).

Ignore those who sit on HOA boards and tell you to keep paying in perpetuity for the good of the other owners. It's a ludicrous position to take. Contact your timeshare HOA or developer, tell them you're 85, and you are no longer paying, so they can have the timeshare back for free or they can pay to foreclose. Ignore the threats, etc., they are completely toothless, and just stop paying. Your absolute worst-case scenario is a foreclosure and a moderate credit hit, which you don't care about anyway given your age and life circumstances. Your most likely scenario is a foreclosure and no credit hit, since all you owe are maintenance fees. The odds of a deficiency judgment (which could only be for the maintenance fees anyway) are roughly the same odds as you being struck by lightning, and are very likely impossible depending on the jurisdiction.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FWIW I found @LeslieDet clarification post on California helpful. However the deeds are not in California so I suggest we move on.

I now think the HOA holds some responsibility and definitely the Developer (if that is not the same) for making this worthless. There are things they can do to add value for owners. I have witnessed this myself with the independent Craigendarroch Lodges in Scotland. Not only does the HOA have optional enrollment in HGVC for points as an affiliate, they recently added DEX exchange and also offer II enrollment, they offer an owner rental program and the units are up-to-date and well-maintained so they are popular rentals that earn more than MF. They keep maint fees low and are transparent with the owners. As a result the deeds for a 2 bdrm sell for about $5000 US. They have ROFR. And there easy surrender because it is an Right to Use instead of a deed.

The only reason the developers required a deed was to lock people in through excessive legal process to avoid walking. They could so they did. Now they get the pay the price of foreclosure to take back a worthless deed.

 

[Ski-Dad]

Why are you such a jerk? the law is what it is. I was simply identifying that what you posted wasn’t an accurate statement at least in California. I don’t care what your opinion may be. Just because you reli upon AI, doesn’t make it accurate.

I have read this entire thread. Your statements may very well be factually correct, but you have provided little to no advice to the OP. You have always made sure you have had the last word. Now stop and reflect for a moment: "Am I being helpful?"

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Another thing to consider is making yourself judgment proof in the event that these demons...err...management companies... do, indeed, come after your estate after death.

The only thing they would ever be able to come after the estate for would be the unpaid maintenance fees that they are currently paying anyway, and again, this scenario is so incredibly unlikely as to be functionally impossible.

And even if it were likely or possible (and it's really not either), do you think that a timeshare developer or HOA would actually do this? Imagine the bad press for a company or industry that already gets a lot of bad press. The time and effort involved would be ridiculous, the payout small, the odds of success vanishingly small, and the bad press huge.

Op really shouldn't lose sleep over this.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree. If they were pursued, it would be easy to tell the court that they made an egregious offer, they made it worthless, and you made every attempt to deed it back for free despite having paid $X upfront and MF for years. If it is listed in the will "as is", how can an HOA then require foreclosure or backpayment if steps were taken prior to this to give it back and you have it in writing that they refused? Shame on them.

 

[alwysonvac]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

If you still own your Diamond Maui deed week, you might be able to give it away via TUG's Free Timeshare Forum.
Don't know about your Fox Hills Resort in Mishicot, Wisconsin but it doesn't hurt to try. Looks like the deed back price was $2500/wk back in 2022. I'm assuming you own two of these for the $5K deedback price.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@alwysonvac great observation. @Walt I did not know you had a deeded week at KBC. That is worth something. You can easily give this away with buyer paying the $250 or so to LT transfers LTtransfers.com for the paperwork (or you pay it - much better than $5000), Deeds (not points collection) in Diamond will likely be taken if you post it on the free board.

IDK about your other deed as I have never heard of this resort. You may need to take the advice given earlier on walking away.

 

[LeslieDet]

Leslie, why don't you reread your posts and see if you had ever addressed the OP's original question through numerous posts. Instead, you wanted to prove how smart you were about nitpicking, unrelated, irrelevant details. That's called being "anal". So now you call ME a jerk. Fine. I'm a jerk. I'm so hurt.

I purposefully did not address the OPs question as I did not know where the OP owned; I simply noted you were pushing disinformation and wanted to correct that disinformation. You seem to think that because you used some AI source, that you know everything. You don't. If I'd wanted to address the OPs issues, I would have asked the OP where he owned. I wouldn't have just spit out irrelevant and incorrect info like you did. It is so ridiculous when folks like you think you can "get" the developer by defaulting on MFs. I'm simply pointing out the fact that it isn't the developer who is "gotten". It is fellow owners.

 

[LeslieDet]

I have read this entire thread. Your statements may very well be factually correct, but you have provided little to no advice to the OP. You have always made sure you have had the last word. Now stop and reflect for a moment: "Am I being helpful?"

I never intended to address the OPs original question; I simply noted the disinformation being provided by Andre and wanted to make sure that no one was misled by the BS being posted by Andre. Facts are helpful. Details are helpful. Perhaps you don't like facts or details, but I tend to believe they are important. That and accuracy. Unfortunately, many folks on here hate facts or accuracy. If I had wanted to provide advice to the OP, I would have responded directly to him as I did, accurately, regarding his question about how can they get it back from him when he is dead. Perhaps you can stop and reflect for a moment about how you fail to provide accurate info? Hmmm? Or whether you are ever helpful? Hmmm?

 

[Ski-Dad]

You have made my point.

 

[LeslieDet]

You have made my point.

And you are a hypocrite.

 

[andre10056]

Hilarious!

Here's my post that set Leslie off (posted at 8:25 pm yesterday)"

===============
The OP's post: There will only be a deeded timeshare week that the timeshare management will have to figure out how to get the week transferred back in their name without our approval since we are dead."

My response:

That will indeed be a problem for them.

I would contact the timeshare entity and tell them exactly what you told us. Seems like they might want to do a deed back in lieu of foreclosure.

And, quite frankly, if the timeshare happened to be in California, Florida, or South Carolina, I believe (newly bolded) that the timeshare entity can't get a dime from you even if your profile was that of a millionaire owning a palatial estate and a fleet of luxury automobiles.. The timeshare laws in those states are very much consumer protection statutes as you can read below:

.....Here I linked attorney and TUG contributor Grammarhero's excellent review of timeshare laws across the country.....


For example, in Florida:

"FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action"

So if you don't state an objection to their seeking to foreclose or whatever, all they can get is the timeshare back. Which I would think would make them doubly willing to do so (via your signing the timeshare back to them) right away without having to go through any foreclosure steps.
==================

In other words, I thought that the OP should contact the "management" and tell them what he had told us about being 85, etc., etc., etc. Furthermore, if he happened to be in certain states identified by Grammarhero as being non-deficiency states, he would have a key negotiating point in his favor such that they might be "doubly willing to do so" (i.e., a deedback).

And the thing that gets me is that I was advocating a negotiation, not refusing to pay, not walking away, not telling them to go F themselves, etc.

Of course, this was before I found out how the OP had been treated by people I had envisioned might be reasonable people.

Leslie somehow interpreted this as sticking it to other timeshare owners. And became outraged by my suggestion (or Grammarhero's suggestion) that California might be a non-deficiency state. And went on and on for many, many posts about how I was allegedly advocating sticking it to other timeshare owners and how wrong I was (even though I had shared my source) about California (which turned out to be irrelevant as the OP does not own anything in California).

And look at her latest summary of what I said:

"I purposefully did not address the OPs question as I did not know where the OP owned; I simply noted you were pushing disinformation and wanted to correct that disinformation. You seem to think that because you used some AI source) (???) that you know everything. You don't. If I'd wanted to address the OPs issues, I would have asked the OP where he owned. I wouldn't have just spit out irrelevant and incorrect info like you did. It is so ridiculous when folks like you think you can "get" the developer by defaulting on MFs. I'm simply pointing out the fact that it isn't the developer who is "gotten". It is fellow owners."

"I never intended to address the OPs original question; I simply noted the disinformation being provided by Andre and wanted to make sure that no one was misled by the BS being posted by Andre. Facts are helpful. Details are helpful. Perhaps you don't like facts or details, but I tend to believe they are important. That and accuracy. Unfortunately, many folks on here hate facts or accuracy."

So I was advocating a negotiation. While others, so many others, were advising the OP to just walk away, don't pay them a dime, you'll be fine, etc. And, yet, not a peep to anyone else. Just confronting me about having made mention that there are jurisdictions where you might have a stronger negotiating position. I mentioned that California might be one of them because Grammarhero had mentioned that California might be one of them and she became livid with anger.

How 'bout a simple "We don't know where the OP owns but I think your cited source is wrong about California" and move on?

Wow!

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I purposefully did not address the OPs question as I did not know where the OP owned; I simply noted you were pushing disinformation and wanted to correct that disinformation. You seem to think that because you used some AI source, that you know everything. You don't. If I'd wanted to address the OPs issues, I would have asked the OP where he owned. I wouldn't have just spit out irrelevant and incorrect info like you did. It is so ridiculous when folks like you think you can "get" the developer by defaulting on MFs. I'm simply pointing out the fact that it isn't the developer who is "gotten". It is fellow owners.

I never intended to address the OPs original question; I simply noted the disinformation being provided by Andre and wanted to make sure that no one was misled by the BS being posted by Andre. Facts are helpful. Details are helpful. Perhaps you don't like facts or details, but I tend to believe they are important. That and accuracy. Unfortunately, many folks on here hate facts or accuracy. If I had wanted to provide advice to the OP, I would have responded directly to him as I did, accurately, regarding his question about how can they get it back from him when he is dead. Perhaps you can stop and reflect for a moment about how you fail to provide accurate info? Hmmm? Or whether you are ever helpful? Hmmm?

And you are a hypocrite.

This is not helpful, and it’s not productive. People come to TUG for help and advice in these situations when they have a worthless timeshare that they can’t afford and can’t use. Fear-mongering about extraordinarily unlikely situations that can maybe technically occur, or trying to shame people into paying maintenance fees in perpetuity because ineffective HOA’s can’t manage a resort well enough to keep the units from becoming worthless helps nobody. Attacking other posters, accusing them of pushing disinformation, questioning their intelligence, launching ad-hominem attacks, none of this does anything and certainly doesn’t help whatever goal you had in the first place.