Anyone stop [paying] their Maintenance Fees?

[Walt]

Since it is almost impossible to sell or give away a timeshare, has anyone just stopped paying the Maintenance Fee? Deeded property and timeshare has no mortgage. None of our kids want the obligation of the Timeshare. We are 85 years old and have sold our house and are renting an apartment. We will not be needing credit and the Timeshare Management cannot foreclose on an house which we do not have. Upon our death, the estate will not be going into probate. There will only be a deeded timeshare week that the timeshare management will have to figure out how to get the week transferred back in their name without our approval since we are dead.

What happened to you if you did stop paying the Maintenance Fee?

 

[TUGBrian]

plenty of people.

though we always suggest offering it up for free and at least attempting to reach out to the resort to try to give it back as first options before you stop paying.

 

[andre10056]

"There will only be a deeded timeshare week that the timeshare management will have to figure out how to get the week transferred back in their name without our approval since we are dead."

That will indeed be a problem for them.

I would contact the timeshare entity and tell them exactly what you told us. Seems like they might want to do a deed back in lieu of foreclosure.

And, quite frankly, if the timeshare happened to be in California, Florida, or South Carolina, I believe that the timeshare entity can't get a dime from you even if your profile was that of a millionaire owning a palatial estate and a fleet of luxury automobiles.. The timeshare laws in those states are very much consumer protection statutes as you can read below:

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

@TUGBrian @DeniseM @CalGalTraveler take a look. This weekend, I’m creating a spreadsheet with official links to states’ timeshare laws, as well as their statuses as to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures. In the meantime, I will just keep adding notes. * Legal Disclaimer: This list...

tugbbs.com

For example, in Florida:

"FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action"

So if you don't state an objection to their seeking to foreclose or whatever, all they can get is the timeshare back. Which I would think would make them doubly willing to do so (via your signing the timeshare back to them) right away without having to go through any foreclosure steps.

 

[sue1947]

Since it is almost impossible to sell or give away a timeshare

I disagree with this blanket statement. There are SOME timeshares that are difficult to give away, but many/most can either be sold or given away. Give it a try.

 

[LeslieDet]

That will indeed be a problem for them

Actually, the problem is not for the developer, it is for the HOA and the owners of that property. When an owner just stops paying the MFs and lets the ownership die on the vine so to speak, the MFs for all other owners increases to cover the delinquency and the costs to pursue that delinquency. So the "them" is your fellow owners.

 

[andre10056]

Actually, the problem is not for the developer, it is for the HOA and the owners of that property. When an owner just stops paying the MFs and lets the ownership die on the vine so to speak, the MFs for all other owners increases to cover the delinquency and the costs to pursue that delinquency. So the "them" is your fellow owners.

I was referring to exactly what the OP described: the timeshare entities' difficulty in dealing with deeded owners who are now dead. Hence, it would indeed be beneficial for the HOA and all owners to do the deedback ASAP.

 

[LeslieDet]

And, quite frankly, if the timeshare happened to be in California ... I believe that the timeshare entity can't get a dime from you

Just FYI - in CA, you are not correctly reciting the applicable law. Ignoring the question of whether an HOA actually would actually pursue a judicial foreclosure, the California Civil Code provides for liens recorded on and after January 1, 2006, that if the debt is under $1800 neither judicial or non-judicial foreclosure can be pursued; however, if the principal amount of debt exceeds $1800 or the delinquency exceeds 12 months, then an HOA may use judicial or nonjudicial foreclosure subject to the provisions in the Civil Code sections 5700 et seq.- In addition, reasonable costs of collection, reasonable attorney's fees, late charges and interest can be added to the principal amount due.

Any judicial or non-judicial foreclosure must comply with the provisions of the Civil Code, and I'm not going to go into all sections or obligations. I'm simply noting that the California Civil Code does indeed allow for the pursuit of a judicial foreclosure (and any resulting deficiency judgment) if the requirements of the applicable statutes are met.

 

[LeslieDet]

I was referring to exactly what the OP described: the timeshare entities' difficulty in dealing with deeded owners who are now dead. Hence, it would indeed be beneficial for the HOA and all owners to do the deedback ASAP.

Take "timeshare entities" out of your statement; the problem is for the deceased owner's fellow timeshare owners, as represented by the collective HOA. It isn't a "timeshare entity". It is the HOA and the fellow owners of the timeshare.

 

[andre10056]

Just FYI - in CA, you are not correctly reciting the applicable law. Ignoring the question of whether an HOA actually would actually pursue a judicial foreclosure, the California Civil Code provides for liens recorded on and after January 1, 2006, that if the debt is under $1800 neither judicial or non-judicial foreclosure can be pursued; however, if the principal amount of debt exceeds $1800 or the delinquency exceeds 12 months, then an HOA may use judicial or nonjudicial foreclosure subject to the provisions in the Civil Code sections 5700 et seq.- In addition, reasonable costs of collection, reasonable attorney's fees, late charges and interest can be added to the principal amount due.

Any judicial or non-judicial foreclosure must comply with the provisions of the Civil Code, and I'm not going to go into all sections or obligations. I'm simply noting that the California Civil Code does indeed allow for the pursuit of a judicial foreclosure (and any resulting deficiency judgment) if the requirements of the applicable statutes are met.

Thank you, Leslie. I made reference to the following Grammarhero description of what California's law might be:

CA, TS owners get anti-deficiency judgments, even for judicial actions: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...vision=4.&title=&part=2.&chapter=2.&article=1

http://www.dre.ca.gov/files/pdf/timeshare_manual.pdf (page 27 is where main sections begin)

And I also wrote things like "assuming that Grammarhero's analysis is correct (which it appears to me that it is)....."

So if you're saying that Grammarhero was not correct and that California timeshare entities can get deficiency judgments, so be it.

But, interestingly, the bottom line position of everyone else was that a timeshare entity never pursues a deficiency judgment. Never happens anywhere in the country, so they said. I vehemently disagreed. If the timeshare entity COULD pursue a deficiency judgment, I thought that they certainly would in the appropriate circumstance.

So you apparently agree with me. Good to know. So why are you confronting me and not them?

 

[andre10056]

Take "timeshare entities" out of your statement; the problem is for the deceased owner's fellow timeshare owners, as represented by the collective HOA. It isn't a "timeshare entity". It is the HOA and the fellow owners of the timeshare.

The timeshare owners would not be filing in the appropriate legal forum to recover ownership after a timeshare owner dies. That would be done by the "timeshare entity" (whatever that might be).

 

[andre10056]

Oh. I just realized the all day discussion we had about California, Florida, and South Carolina laws and the alleged tendency by timeshare entities ANYWHERE to never seek deficiency judgments was in another thread.

 

[Patri]

Walt, tell the resort they can have it back. Do they even know you want to be done? You are in a good spot with this. You will be fine.

 

[Walt]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

 

[sue1947]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

Have you offered either for free? Read this thread: how to give your ts away
Take a shot at giving them away. Less effort, less stress and certainly worth a try. If that doesn't work, then look at foreclosure.

 

[LeslieDet]

The timeshare owners would not be filing in the appropriate legal forum to recover ownership after a timeshare owner dies. That would be done by the "timeshare entity" (whatever that might be).

You are not grasping that the HOA is the property representative, so, let's use Newport Coast as an example, while the resort is a timeshare resort, it is owned by many different people, and yes, some of it is owned by the MVC Trust. There are actually three different Associations that function at Newport Coast: the Newport Coast Villas Timeshare Association, the Newport Coast Villas Condominium Association, and the Newport Coast Villas Master Association. All owners of Newport Coast are members of these three Associations. When an owner defaults in paying the MFs due for that ownership, then the unpaid sums are part of an account receivable, and if not paid, the unpaid sums become "bad debt". That bad debt is then allocated the following budget year and spread into the MFs, such that each owner receives a bill that includes their pro-rata share of that bad debt. At some point in time, if the BOD of the Associations agree, then the delinquency is pursued. I'm guessing that there is an agreement among the 3 different associations that one becomes the collection association and is responsible to pursue the delinquencies. That is the "timeshare entity" you keep on referring to. It is the Association that all owners belong to and which represents the ownership interests of said owners. It isn't the timeshare developer. Thus, it is the owners who are screwed by their fellow owner.

 

[LeslieDet]

But, interestingly, the bottom line position of everyone else was that a timeshare entity never pursues a deficiency judgment. Never happens anywhere in the country, so they said. I vehemently disagreed. If the timeshare entity COULD pursue a deficiency judgment, I thought that they certainly would in the appropriate circumstance.

So you apparently agree with me.

I have not been following what you have been discussing in a different feed. The simple answer is depending upon state law, there are definitely jurisdictions where if a judicial foreclosure was to be obtained, then state law will allow for a deficiency judgment. California is an example. That doesn't mean the HOAs pursue judicial foreclosures or deficiencies, it simply means they are legally entitled to do so. Thus, for risk assessment, yes, it is a possibility. Does it happen? I simply do not know. Judicial foreclosures take significantly more time and cost significantly more money than nonjudicial foreclosures.

 

[andre10056]

You are not grasping that the HOA of the property, so, let's use Newport Coast as an example, while the resort is a timeshare resort, it is owned by many different people, and yes, some of it is owned by the MVC Trust. There are actually three different Associations that function at Newport Coast: the Newport Coast Villas Timeshare Association, the Newport Coast Villas Condominium Association, and the Newport Coast Villas Master Association. All owners of Newport Coast are members of these three Associations. When an owner defaults in paying the MFs due for that ownership, then the unpaid sums are part of an account receivable, and if not paid, the unpaid sums become "bad debt". That bad debt is then allocated the following budget year and spread into the MFs, such that each owner receives a bill that includes their pro-rata share of that bad debt. At some point in time, if the BOD of the Associations agree, then the delinquency is pursued. I'm guessing that there is an agreement among the 3 different associations that one becomes the collection association and is responsible to pursue the delinquencies. That is the "timeshare entity" you keep on referring to. It is the Association that all owners belong to and which represents the ownership interests of said owners. It isn't the timeshare developer. Thus, it is the owners who are screwed by their fellow owner.

Leslie. I most certainly understand that, if all do not pay, the others necessarily have to pay more. So I don't care if it's the Newport Coast Villas Timeshare Association or the Rumpelstiltskin Timeshare Association. But what does that have to do with the OP who asked what he should do as he's 85, will never again visit the timeshare, and cannot afford to continue to pay? My response: contact the "timeshare" (or, if you prefer, the Rumpelstiltskin Amalgamated Unitary Timeshare Guardians and Association) and tell them precisely what you told us. Maybe they'll immediately do a deed back. And we don't know what state the OP's timeshare is in, but there are some where even the most bloodthirsty "timeshare" might not try to rip the OP's face off since all they can do in that jurisdiction is take the timeshare back as they can never get a deficiency judgment.

In any case, I would think it would certainly behoove the "timeshare" to proceed quickly. If not, who knows how long it would take to get the timeshare back under their control after the OP's death (during which Leslie gets no contribution towards her maintenance fees).

You apparently object to what I suggested the OP might do. Of course, says Leslie, that deadbeat POS should continue paying without a peep of an inquiry to the "timeshare" so that I don't have to pay five dollars a year more in maintenance fees. And, as Leslie might further say, I don't care what happens after the person dies because who knows when that might occur in the future.

OK. We can agree to disagree on what an optimal outcome might be.

 

[Walt]

My question here is this. How can the resort HOA get the “paid for deeded week” back legally in their name when my wife and I are both dead.? At what cost to them compared to when we are alive?

 

[andre10056]

My question here is this. How can the resort HOA get the “paid for deeded week” back legally in their name when my wife and I are both dead.? At what cost to them compared to when we are alive?

In terms of saving time, in terms of avoiding having to do extensive legal work (at a minimum, I would think, a foreclosure although required "notice" to the defendant might be an issue), and in terms of putting the timeshare in the hands of another paying owner ASAP, I would think it behooves the "timeshare entity" to do a deedback now.

 

[LeslieDet]

My question here is this. How can the resort HOA get the “paid for deeded week” back legally in their name when my wife and I are both dead.? At what cost to them compared to when we are alive?

The HOA can’t without going to court in a lengthy and costly process. You can offer to deed the ownership back to them. That’s the most efficient way to transfer ownership while you’re alive. Idk which brand you own.

 

[LeslieDet]

Leslie. I most certainly understand that, if all do not pay, the others necessarily have to pay more. So I don't care if it's the Newport Coast Villas Timeshare Association or the Rumpelstiltskin Timeshare Association. But what does that have to do with the OP who asked what he should do as he's 85, will never again visit the timeshare, and cannot afford to continue to pay? My response: contact the "timeshare" (or, if you prefer, the Rumpelstiltskin Amalgamated Unitary Timeshare Guardians and Association) and tell them precisely what you told us. Maybe they'll immediately do a deed back. And we don't know what state the OP's timeshare is in, but there are some where even the most bloodthirsty "timeshare" might not try to rip the OP's face off since all they can do in that jurisdiction is take the timeshare back as they can never get a deficiency judgment.

In any case, I would think it would certainly behoove the "timeshare" to proceed quickly. If not, who knows how long it would take to get the timeshare back under their control after the OP's death (during which Leslie gets no contribution towards her maintenance fees).

You apparently object to what I suggested the OP might do. Of course, says Leslie, that deadbeat POS should continue paying without a peep of an inquiry to the "timeshare" so that I don't have to pay five dollars a year more in maintenance fees. And, as Leslie might further say, I don't care what happens after the person dies because who knows when that might occur in the future.

OK. We can agree to disagree on what an optimal outcome might be.

You sure like to misconstrue things. Last time I looked, no one has posted the bylaws of the association the OP is a member of. Haven’t seen the CC&Rs either. You sure seem to ignore the fact that associations can only act within the confines of their rules within the boundaries of the applicable law. While you may not like that fact, it’s how things work.

 

[Patri]

Walt, your plate is full. Sorry for your diagnosis. If you can’t give them away, or don’t have the energy, let the resorts know they can have them back at no cost to you, and you will not be paying any more maintenance fees. I don’t shed crocodile tears that fees will go up for the other owners. This is where the HOA boards and management companies must develop reasonable take back programs.

My own resort had fewer delinquencies than they expected last year. They have some sort of exit program. I haven’t investigated it because I plan to use mine for quite a while yet.

Don’t stress over this. You are doing what you can/should. May the rest of your life be happy.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Walt. I am sorry for your diagnosis and for what they are putting you through. $5000 per deed is highway robbery especially since your property is paid off and I suspect that you paid maint fees in good faith for years. This is the kind of stuff that gives timeshares a bad name.

Try to give it away here on TUG.

If that does not work, suggest that you offer deedback one more time no cost and you refuse to pay fees because you paid Maint Fees and mortgage faithfully for years. Let them know that you have a DX of cancer and are 85. Your children will not accept the timeshare inheritance. If they say "No" then let them know that you have pressing health issues that require payment and will stop payments.

Put the HOA as the beneficiary of the timeshare in your will so HOA will have a cheaper way to acquire it than foreclosure. The HOA will cancel the backpayments to get it back so why not for you? Keep documentation of their refusal to accept the deedback and egregious demands of $5000 each deed when you contacted them. Compare that to the cost of the MF which I suspect is a multiple of what you pay and the zero value of the deed.

This could be submitted during foreclosure if they try to go for deficiency of other assets against the estate. because it demonstrates that you tried to return it to the HOA in good faith and give it away and because of the actions of the HOA/Developer to make restrictive rules such that there was no resale value that they were blackmailing you because they knew the property was worthless. Also include your giveaway ad on TUG. Put all of this documentation in a package for your heirs to manage and make it easy for them. (a bit of documentation paperwork now will pay off for your heirs/estate later for your heirs so they know what to do.)

Then notify them that under U.S. Law that they cannot call you to harrass for payment (search TUG on this law). If they write you, then if it is to harass for payment then ignore (it will be hard but do not give in). If it is to deedback then you have won. Sometimes it takes a while for the developer/HOA to realize that you are not going to cave-in before they will deedback. Negotiate. You will win this.

God Bless and take care.

 

[andre10056]

I am dealing with 2 timeshare management companies. Neither will take back any of the 3 deeded timeshare weeks. I told them about our age of 85, that I got diagnosed with malignant metastatic melanoma and about our legal means to not have our estate go through probate. Their answers was they have no free or low cost take back program. But they may be willing to take back one week for $5000 and the other 2 weeks for $5000. Any thoughts? One is a Hawaii timeshare and the other is a Wisconsin timeshare.

I actually missed this post yesterday as I was in the middle of being "schooled" by Leslie.

It never seeks to amaze me how evil (and illogical) people can be.

I would suggest listening to CalGal.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

BTW...because there is no mortgage, the likelihood that they will do anything other than take back the deed, is small.

Latest reporting here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Two more data points

tugbbs.com

Background here:

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com