[ 2019 ] anyone has stopped paying maintenance fees, what happened ?

[Fredflintstone]

@CalGalTraveler, you don’t need the actual deed. Titles are public record so you can get away with the LINC number or title number.


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[CalGalTraveler]

I doubt that they could put a legally enforceable lien clause in a timeshare contract on a primary home unless it was used as security for the mortgage.

Otherwise unsecured debt such as credit card issuers would not hesitate to add a lien on one's home; the term "unsecured debt" would quickly become non-existent.

Why offer unsecured debt on a credit card when you could slap a lien on their primary home?

 

[Fredflintstone]

I doubt that they could put legally enforceable lien clause in a timeshare contract unless it was set as security for the mortgage.

I am assuming you are referring to the lein on the timeshare itself. Actually, they can put a lein on the timeshare itself for non payment of MF. As for any other property you own, absolutely not. That ability is scribed in timeshare law in many states so putting it in a contract itself is not needed. I have seen timeshare contracts that do outline what they do if you default on the MF though and placing a lein on the timeshare itself is part of the process before foreclosure.


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[Fredflintstone]

Most times timeshare laws work different than real property or other property Real Estate Laws in most states (actually I can’t think of any state exceptions but I could be wrong)


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[Fredflintstone]

I doubt that they could put a legally enforceable lien clause in a timeshare contract on a primary home unless it was used as security for the mortgage.

Otherwise unsecured debt such as credit card issuers would not hesitate to add a lien on one's home; the term "unsecured debt" would quickly become non-existent.

Why offer unsecured debt on a credit card when you could slap a lien on their primary home?

As for timeshares, the security IS the timeshare...nothing more.

Yes, one can obtain a lein on a home for unsecured debt so they can become a Judgement Creditor and then could place a lein on your real property. This requires them suing you, obtaining a judgement, allowing for appeals, validating debt, etc. It is expensive and cumbersome if you respond. Sometimes they roll the dice and file and hope YOU don’t respond to make the process smoother.

Either way, it’s time consuming and expensive so most times the credit card company doesn’t bother UNLESS it’s a ton of money you owe (like 50 k plus)




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[Fredflintstone]

@CalGalTraveler. Here is an article on unsecured debt with regards to California Law.

https://www.borowitzclark.com/what-does-it-mean-be-judgment-proof-can-my-creditors-sue-me/

Notice that you can keep 75 k equity in a home. I suppose that is easy in expensive California.








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[CalGalTraveler]

As for timeshares, the security IS the timeshare...nothing more.

Yes, one can obtain a lein on a home for unsecured debt so they can become a Judgement Creditor and then could place a lein on your real property. This requires them suing you, obtaining a judgement, allowing for appeals, validating debt, etc. It is expensive and cumbersome if you respond. Sometimes they roll the dice and file and hope YOU don’t respond to make the process smoother.

Either way, it’s time consuming and expensive so most times the credit card company doesn’t bother UNLESS it’s a ton of money you owe (like 50 k plus)




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That's why I highly doubt that they would do this over a late MF. How many years of unpaid MF would it take to reach 50k? (answer: too many) Mortgage is another matter.

 

[Fredflintstone]

That's why I highly doubt that they would do this over a late MF. How many years of unpaid MF would it take to reach 50k? (answer: too many) Mortgage is another matter.

Yes you are absolutely correct!

Also, if it’s a anti deficiency state, they are out of luck even if there is a high mortgage on the TS.


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[Ewiike]

Hmmm...I wonder if MVC debt collector's fabricated this to get you to pay. What state was this in?

Wouldn't they have to present a copy of your deed with the lien? And wouldn't you have to pay much more than $175 to pay for the refiling fees on the deed and doc prep AND their legal fees. I doubt their lawyers work for less than $400/hour.

This does not add up.

You could be right CalGalTraveler , I'm trying to remember , it was more than ten years ago , I had a stroke , my husband couldn't work for a few months( he was a contractor) and we asked Sheraton to wait three months , they said ok , but Marriott said no , you have to pay now , and after a while we got this mail from a Florida lawyer that they will put a lien on the house if we don't pay. And true , it didn't came from a court or a judge , but from a lawyer office. But this was the one and only time we were late with an important payment , we didn't know how does it go so we thought , this is it , there goes the house....finally we paid the MF somehow , but I can't remember every detail now...

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You could be right CalGalTraveler , I'm trying to remember , it was more than ten years ago , I had a stroke , my husband couldn't work for a few months( he was a contractor) and we asked Sheraton to wait three months , they said ok , but Marriott said no , you have to pay now , and after a while we got this mail from a Florida lawyer that they will put a lien on the house if we don't pay. And true , it didn't came from a court or a judge , but from a lawyer office. But this was the one and only time we were late with an important payment , we didn't know how does it go so we thought , this is it , there goes the house....finally we paid the MF somehow , but I can't remember every detail now...

That makes more sense that it was a threat. Do you recall if you had a mortgage on the TS at the time? or was it just the MF that was late?

 

[Fredflintstone]

You could be right CalGalTraveler , I'm trying to remember , it was more than ten years ago , I had a stroke , my husband couldn't work for a few months( he was a contractor) and we asked Sheraton to wait three months , they said ok , but Marriott said no , you have to pay now , and after a while we got this mail from a Florida lawyer that they will put a lien on the house if we don't pay. And true , it didn't came from a court or a judge , but from a lawyer office. But this was the one and only time we were late with an important payment , we didn't know how does it go so we thought , this is it , there goes the house....finally we paid the MF somehow , but I can't remember every detail now...

IMO, it’s very scummy to have threats sent to vulnerable folks. Here is just some suggestions for future reference.

1. Don’t listen to threats unless the court papers hit your desk. Always get a lawyer if that happens and respond to them. They usually run.
2. You have rights! Depending where your TS is (especially Florida, California and South Carolina) all they can do is take the TS. Nothing more.




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[Ewiike]

You could be right CalGalTraveler , I'm trying to remember , it was more than ten years ago , I had a stroke , my husband couldn't work for a few months( he was a contractor) and we asked Sheraton to wait three months , they said ok , but Marriott said no , you have to pay now , and after a while we got this mail from a Florida lawyer that they will put a lien on the house if we don't pay. And true , it didn't came from a court or a judge , but from a lawyer office. But this was the one and only time we were late with an important payment , we didn't know how does it go so we thought , this is it , there goes the house....finally we paid the MF somehow , but I can't remember every detail now...

Oh , we are in NJ , and the resorts in Florida.

 

[Ewiike]

That makes more sense that it was a threat. Do you recall if you had a mortgage on the TS at the time? or was it just the MF that was late?

It was paid in full , it was only the MF.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Oh , we are in NJ , and the resorts in Florida.

Resort in Florida? Nice. Well, Florida has non judicial, anti deficiency laws which means all they can do is take your TS if you do not pay. They could affect your credit rating based on whether you have a loan or not.

THEY CANNOT TOUCH YOUR HOME.

Next time they threaten, simply throw their garbage in you know where.








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[Ewiike]

IMO, it’s very scummy to have threats sent to vulnerable folks. Here is just some suggestions for future reference.

1. Don’t listen to threats unless the court papers hit your desk. Always get a lawyer if that happens and respond to them. They usually run.
2. You have rights! Depending where your TS is (especially Florida, California and South Carolina) all they can do is take the TS. Nothing more.




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Yes , but who knew that time..?Plus , we immigrated from a kommunist country , and we grew up knowing if you received a letter from a lawyer , you were in trouble and better not say a word just as they say. Vulnerable....yes.

 

[Ewiike]

Yes , but who knew that time..?Plus , we immigrated from a kommunist country , and we grew up knowing if you received a letter from a lawyer , you were in trouble and better not say a word just do as they say. Vulnerable....yes.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Yes , but who knew that time..?Plus , we immigrated from a kommunist country , and we grew up knowing if you received a letter from a lawyer , you were in trouble and better not say a word just as they say. Vulnerable....yes.

I’m not blaming you. I’m blaming the scum who played you.

Now you know and that way they cannot play you again.


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[tlsbooks]

When you say “Club” do you mean membership?. Some deeded timeshares call themselves a “Club”.

2k? That’s ridiculous. Look at your contract. What state is this “Club” in?

Points - Diamond Resorts Int.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It's possible those laws were not in place at the time since this happened 10 years ago. Either way, this has been a very educational thread for me.It would be good to get more TUG datapoints on this issue.

I am also curious about the trust points issue because the properties in a trust are located in several states. Some of which may not have anti-deficiency laws. Does the fact the land trust resides in Florida prevail? or does each deed and laws associated with each state in the trust prevail?

 

[Ewiike]

Resort in Florida? Nice. Well, Florida has non judicial, anti deficiency laws which means all they can do is take your TS if you do not pay. They could affect your credit rating based on whether you have a loan or not.

THEY CANNOT TOUCH YOUR HOME.

Next time they threaten, simply throw their garbage in you know where.








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May I ask what is the deal with Pennsylvania? My friend lives in NJ and they have ts in PA , but she didn't pay the MF in the last few years. Thx

 

[haasle]

Yes, I agree. It’s always best to talk to the resort first. 150 is fair. Just from experience, resorts are starting to become more reasonable because they know the refusal, we have a contract approach usually leaves them with an abandoned TS. Not to mention, the exit companies (that I personally don’t recommend) nipping in their heels isn’t making things better.

You do have options though and stop paying is one of them if they are being unwilling to cooperate or paying the hard ball approach.


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We own two deeded fixed weeks in Florida each for more than 25 years. Both were resales and paid for when purchased. MFs were paid on time each year. This summer I emailed them (Diamond) and after 3 or 4 weeks with no reply I called their deed back number. After talking to two reps I was told it would be $1000 each and if they didn’t complete the paperwork by Jan. 1st we would be billed the 2020 MFs. She then stated that resales definitely didn’t qualify.

 

[R.J.C.]

We own two deeded fixed weeks in Florida each for more than 25 years. Both were resales and paid for when purchased. MFs were paid on time each year. This summer I emailed them (Diamond) and after 3 or 4 weeks with no reply I called their deed back number. After talking to two reps I was told it would be $1000 each and if they didn’t complete the paperwork by Jan. 1st we would be billed the 2020 MFs. She then stated that resales definitely didn’t qualify.

That is correct. With Diamond, you have to be the original owner to be able to deed the week back to them although there is really no reason for such a rule.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We own two deeded fixed weeks in Florida each for more than 25 years. Both were resales and paid for when purchased. MFs were paid on time each year. This summer I emailed them (Diamond) and after 3 or 4 weeks with no reply I called their deed back number. After talking to two reps I was told it would be $1000 each and if they didn’t complete the paperwork by Jan. 1st we would be billed the 2020 MFs. She then stated that resales definitely didn’t qualify.

This is BS. You've owned and paid MF responsibly for 25 years and Diamond gladly took your money. I will bet that after 25 years, mergers and lack of IT back then, they wouldn't be able to differentiate who bought resale and who bought retail if you had not been honest and told them.

You have two choices:

1) Give the properties away, here on TUG or on TimeshareNation.com. Depending on the property. This will take some time and you will need to pay 2020 MF and closing fees.

2) Walk. In Florida you are in a "non-judicial, anti-deficiency state" which means that the most they can get is to take back your timeshare, a ding to your credit record and ignoring threatening phone calls from bill collectors. So it might be worth walking. If you want to avoid 2020 MF, then call them up again ASAP, tell them you are walking and you are aware that Florida is a "non-judicial, anti-deficiency state" so you know that the worst they can do is to take back the timeshare. To avoid the costs of foreclosing and enable them to earn money from the unit for renting it out this winter to offset the 2020 Maint Fees and resale the unit. So you will offer to give them the "deed in lieu of foreclosure" for free to avoid their cost and hassle.

Remind them that you have paid MF faithfully for 25 years and do not have an outstanding mortgage.

Remind them that they advertise a "Responsible Exit" program through ARDA for long time owners. You have been a long-time owner. If they balk or try to talk you out of it or threaten you, then talk to a lawyer and decide what to do.

Please report back what transpires. (Diamond scumbags...)

 

[Fredflintstone]

This is BS. You've owned and paid MF responsibly for 25 years and Diamond gladly took your money. I will bet that after 25 years, mergers and lack of IT back then, they wouldn't be able to differentiate who bought resale and who bought retail if you had not been honest and told them.

You have two choices:

1) Give the properties away, here on TUG or on TimeshareNation.com. Depending on the property. This will take some time and you will need to pay 2020 MF and closing fees.

2) Walk. In Florida you are in a "non-judicial, anti-deficiency state" which means that the most they can get is to take back your timeshare, a ding to your credit record and ignoring threatening phone calls from bill collectors. So it might be worth walking. If you want to avoid 2020 MF, then call them up again ASAP, tell them you are walking and you are aware that Florida is a "non-judicial, anti-deficiency state" so you know that the worst they can do is to take back the timeshare. To avoid the costs of foreclosing and enable them to earn money from the unit for renting it out this winter to offset the 2020 Maint Fees and resale the unit. So you will offer to give them the "deed in lieu of foreclosure" for free to avoid their cost and hassle.

Remind them that you have paid MF faithfully for 25 years and do not have an outstanding mortgage.

Remind them that they advertise a "Responsible Exit" program through ARDA for long time owners. You have been a long-time owner. If they balk or try to talk you out of it or threaten you, then talk to a lawyer and decide what to do.

Please report back what transpires. (Diamond scumbags...)

A ding on the credit report is questionable if it’s resale. This is because the “creditor” needs critical information (like DOB) to access. Also, in many states, the “creditor” requires your written consent to access your Credit File anyway.

A good way to know if your credit could potentially be affected is to check your Credit Report to see if they are currently reporting payments. If not, you are most likely safe.

Where credit report would play is if you have a loan on your TS.

Another reason to buy resale. Savings all around. Money and credit.


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[CalGalTraveler]

The best part of resale?

You can't lose money if you did not spend it in the first place.