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Any experience with a non-paying renter?

camachinist

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Whether you have 75 rentals under your belt or 0 there isn’t that much difference.

IMO, there's no substitute for experience. I see it every day in business. The trick is to get it without harming oneself irrepairably :)

I agree with your method and, as we aquire a larger portfolio, I will invest the time (have had a web site for years) to put it into practice.

Currently, I price at the high end of the range (about 3.5x MF's for high season) and watch the competition carefully. I also found that, by listing the same intervals for exchange (on Redweek) and being the only exchange ad (I guess folks who advertise there at our resort aren't interested in or don't understand direct exchanges), I get people asking if they can rent them. It provides better exposure than being in the sea of rental listings (literally) and at no additional cost.

When you take rental and security payments via PayPal, how do you refund the security deposit? By check, or via Paypal?

Also, since you've divested most of your Marriotts and purchased points, has the method for renting points vs weeks (and non-Marriotts) changed your procedures or experiences in any way? If so, how? I would think that renting someone points (I'm assuming not an actual reservation, but don't know this area well) would be a bit more problematical from the education/CS standpoint. I'm guessing they pay you for the points and you make a reservation at a resort of their choosing which accepts them.

Lastly, do you tend to rent open-ended intervals (those for which you don't have reservations) or do you reserve first and then rent? Why? We tend to reserve first and then rent. I'm curious to hear your experience, if other.

Pat
 

PerryM

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Schmooze your renter

Pat,

Every time you get a chance to schmooze your renter – take it.

So when I return the 10% security deposit (via personal check sent by snail mail to their home) I hand write a note thanking them for renting from me AND I tell them about the 10% future discounts AND the 10% bounty (I don’t call it a bounty; but it is) for finding me a renter. I want them to remember me for their next rental.

The 4% I pay PayPal is one of the costs of doing business; just like my web site cost, eBay listing fees, RedWeek and MyResortNetwork fees. Don’t get cheap and not accept PayPal. Offering financing via credit cards is something the renter never thinks about until you mention it to them.

Our last Marriott rental was for week 51 at MountainSide last year – some of my renters are sad to see it end.

ALWAYS lock in a week and rent a week that it tangible – something the renter can dream about. Just pick weeks when the family can travel together. Weeks 51 & 52 are, by far, the most profitable to rent. 4th of July in Maui is another “barn burner” in terms of rental.

Never, never, never rent an exchange – even if you can find an exchange company that would allow renting reservations. That exchange you got does NOT give you the ability to re-rent it to someone else. There are just too many screwy things that the resort can do, and then the exchange company has their own problems. Never rent an exchange!

Be careful of the crazy scams that might come your way – you know – the clown that has a check way in excess of your rental price and must send it to you. Of course he wants you to send him money via Western Union – the oldest con out there.

I must say that my first rental was very close to what I do now 5+ years later. I never wanted to finance a person who can’t afford to pay the rent and I certainly didn’t want to get involved with all the crazy calamities that follow these folks like a thunder cloud.

I did add PayPal which has been the deciding factor in at least 25% of my rentals. I highly recommend it to all landlords. The renter is under the misguided assumption that the credit card will protect him in these cases – it does not. I don’t bring this topic up they just assume that some magical genie will protect them.

P.S.

When listing in RedWeek or MyResortNetwork you may find competition to the week you are renting. What to do?

I pay no attention to them! I have a fair rental rate and rent all my weeks each year. If there are folks who are renting the same week much cheaper than you – don’t stoop to their level – hold your price. Someone will snap up the cheaper rental and yours will be the one left. You will get your price if you priced it right. The owner who panicked and listed it too cheap will watch your more expensive rental finally rent and kick himself in the butt.
 
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Spence

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I agree with most everything Perry has stated.

PerryM said:
The 4% I pay PayPal is one of the costs of doing business; just like my web site cost, eBay listing fees, RedWeek and MyResortNetwork fees. Don’t get cheap and not accept PayPal. Offering financing via credit cards is something the renter never thinks about until you mention it to them.

I did add PayPal which has been the deciding factor in at least 25% of my rentals. I highly recommend it to all landlords. The renter is under the misguided assumption that the credit card will protect him in these cases – it does not. I don’t bring this topic up they just assume that some magical genie will protect them.

I think it's closer to 3%, and I urge renters to use it for it's speed, flexibility for them, and record keeping, I tell them I am absorbing all PayPal's costs. I require 100% payment so there's not extra transaction costs for multiple payments. I've never had someone try to go back on their PayPal Credit Card but I would assume the CC company would say, sorry, we delivered the money to paypal.com, that is what you contracted for, the CC has no concern over the reason for the PayPal transaction.


PerryM said:
[ALWAYS lock in a week and rent a week that it tangible – something the renter can dream about. Just pick weeks when the family can travel together. Weeks 51 & 52 are, by far, the most profitable to rent. 4th of July in Maui is another “barn burner” in terms of rental.

I deal mostly with Sunterra/Williamsburg/Powhatan where SunOptions/Points seem to get me a lot. So I lock in SUMMER weeks there, not being a ski resort 51/52 are not that demanded. Any other time in Williamsburg or any other Sunterra location, I will check availability and rent on request, making the reservation only after payment is made. If it's available and I have no current year points, I can borrow from the coming year.

PerryM said:
When listing in RedWeek or MyResortNetwork you may find competition to the week you are renting. What to do? I pay no attention to them! I have a fair rental rate and rent all my weeks each year. If there are folks who are renting the same week much cheaper than you – don’t stoop to their level – hold your price. Someone will snap up the cheaper rental and yours will be the one left. You will get your price if you priced it right. The owner who panicked and listed it too cheap will watch your more expensive rental finally rent and kick himself in the butt.

I hold my price even when there is competing property, if you've priced it fairly, it will rent. I have figured what I need to make per point value used and I don't 'deal' on the price once contacted. I have many requests for AAA, AARP, Military discounts.... while I am a member of all those groups, I tell them that they're already getting 50% off retail. Although I have given discounts similar to Perry's incentives.
 

PerryM

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My weakness

Being a former USAF Captain I am weak kneed with military folks. I rent to active duty military folks for my cost – the maintenance fee. I have a number of them who rent from me each year – I just ask to get a copy of their military ID.

This, I know, is not the capitalistic way – and I am trying to rehabilitate myself. I hope they don’t kick me out of the Snidely Whiplash fan club.
 

Spence

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PerryM said:
Being a former USAF Captain I am weak kneed with military folks.

I have been known to rent for substantialy less to those coming back from or on leave from the war. But not to run of the mill military, I did that for 21 years and was in the Gulf during the time period of the first Gulf war. :)
 

buzzy

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I am listening very carefully to the previous threads and it seems to be conflicting on the 50% down/Paypal acceptance.

Do people really want to pay for their vacation in full, whether by cashiers check or paypal up to a year in advance. I am almost wondering if Camachinist is correct on the marketing issue of the 50% down. If you are competing with someone for the same week, same price it would seem the 100% down would be a negative in renting that week.

In addition, it would seem Paypal would do nothing but cost money (3%) out of your pocket because some people just do it because it is easier for them, not because they need to finance a vacation. Then seller pays the cost in that case for no reason. I guess I am not seeing the marketing aspect of Paypal, only the added cost.
 

PerryM

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The check is in the mail

Buzzy,

PayPal becomes clear after you get a renter who says “the check is in the mail” and weeks go by and you eMail them and find out that the dog ate the letter and they will again send the check. Once this goes on for a month the wisdom of PayPal becomes much clearer. That 3% even on a $3,300 rental is just $100 and granted this is a lot of money but so is the consternation of playing games with the renter.

Just as sure as the sun rises, another person contacts you and offers to pay with PayPal and you can only inform them that if the check isn’t received in 10 days you’ll get back to them. There is a good chance you just lost 2 renters.

With the typical discounts a timeshare rental represents (usually 50% discount) it’s worth paying 100% of the asking price to snatch up the rental. Part of your duty as the landlord is to hammer away just what a great deal this is.

Marriott charges $660 per day during week 7, 51, and 52 at MountainSide; that’s $4,620 for the week. We routinely got $3,000 for our rental, or a 35% discount. This is not that much of a discount but availability made up for it. Just try to find one of theses weeks in a 2BR at MountainSide. This is the same dare I gave the renters and we rented MountainSide like hotcakes.

So throw out dares to your potential renter. Challenge them to find cheaper accommodations that are equivalent. Let them convince themselves that 10 – 11 months away represents a fantastic rental and they had better act quickly or it will be gone.

If you want big bucks renting you must be pro-active and not wait for renters to “think it over”. Instill in them the fear that such a fantastic rental won’t last that long. If you have that attitude it won’t last long.

P.S.
That $4,620 Marriott rental also had an additional 11% local sales tax added or $508.20. Don’t forget to hammer away that they save an additional $508 by renting thru you. Add that tax in and the discount now becomes a 41% discount.
 
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huestous

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PerryM said:
In conclusion: Off load the responsibilities of financing your renter and insuring their vacation. I know there is a temptation to do both but that’s why there are credit card companies and insurance companies.

This is exactly why I collect 100% up front.

I am not about to share the responsibility for someone else changing their mind, suffering an illness, running into monetary problems, etc. I may be sympathetic, but I'm not going to inherit somebody else's problem.

Haven't had an interval up for rent sit vacant yet (knock on wood).
 

Dean

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I'd let them know immediate payment by paypal or bank check or I'd cancel and keep any deposit. Then if you don't get the payment in time you give them, say nothing else and cancel. Then hope they do show up and don't have a place to stay.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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buzzy said:
I am listening very carefully to the previous threads and it seems to be conflicting on the 50% down/Paypal acceptance.

Do people really want to pay for their vacation in full, whether by cashiers check or paypal up to a year in advance. I am almost wondering if Camachinist is correct on the marketing issue of the 50% down. If you are competing with someone for the same week, same price it would seem the 100% down would be a negative in renting that week.
I rent about four months in advance and I have never accepted less than payment in full.

I prefer Paypal because it is fast and immediate. I want to put as few impediments as possible in the way of completing a transaction.

If someone wants to send me a check instead of using Paypal, I inform that there is no deal until I receive the check. I will entertain offers from other people, and if another person uses Paypal and there payment arrives first, the Paypal user gets the unit.
 

SharonD

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It all worked out, this time...

Just an update on my situation: the renter did end up paying me, and all is well this time. But I've learned my lesson about being "too nice" and waiting too long to enforce the contract.

I did learn a lot from this thread, though; very interesting to read about different rental policies. Ultimately I think it does come down to experience and learning what works best for you.
 

PerryM

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Cross over to the dark side

I’ll alert the national chapter that another member of the Snidely Whiplash fan club has been recruited. Congratulations!

The more you do renting the more you will appreciate that the renter really needs someone to tell him/her exactly what to do – they feel much better.
 

icydog

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I agree with Perry. Tell them you are finished waiting and cancel. I always get paid in full up front. I had one renter pay me in 3 installments but I was certain the last payment had to be in my hands, pay pal, before the last day to redeposit my time. Cancel!
 

dlr47

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A fan of this thread

I'm a newbie to TUG and the BBS. However, I must say that I am very impressed by the quality of the dialogue here. These posts are informative, clever and very well written. I will be a regular reader.

- Derek
 

Liz from N.J.

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Very interesting tread. Last night (on a Aruba bb) I had posted the contract that I sent out to renters of my unit in Aruba. I had asked for 100% payment.

This is the contract. Does anyone have anything that I should ad (or delete).


RENTAL CONTRACT​


RESERVATION: Upon mutual agreement, the owner and renter has agreed on the rental of __________________ (name of Timeshare) in
_________________ (Location) Phone # ________________ for the amount of $___________.


WEEK(s) # ______ Arrival Date ________________ (day of week & date) Departure Date __________________ (day of week & date)
Unit # _______ Maximum # of People in Unit: 5 people Smoking Unit ____ No ____ Yes

UNIT TYPE: (Example) 1 Bedroom, 1 Bath, Living Room, kitchenette, Dining Table, Patio (or Balcony)
SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS: (Example) 1 Bedroom: King Bed; Living Room: Queen Sleeper Sofa and Sleeper Chair
COOKING FACILITIES: (Example) Full-size Refrigerator & Freezer, Stove Top with 4 burners (no oven), Kitchen Sink, Microwave, Coffee Pot, Blender, Toaster Oven, Dishes & Glassware, Cultery, Pots & Pans, Cookware, Cooking Utensils

CHECK-IN: 4:00 p.m. CHECK-OUT: 12:00 noon

PAYMENT TERMS: (Optional - Example) Security Deposit: $ ____________ due by ____________ (Date). Security Deposit will be returned to renter (Example) 2 weeks after departure date of ___________.
Rental Fee: (Example) 100% of full rental fee due by ___________ (date) OR
(Example) $ ________ deposit due by ________ (date). Balance of $ _______ due by ___________ (date).

METHOD OF PAYMENT: (Example) Personal check, Bank check, Money Order or Pay Pal

CANCELLATION: (Example) No cancellation is allowed once payment has been received unless the unit can be re-rented by the owner. The renter agrees not to sublet the unit. The rental rights are non-transferable.

OBLIGATION OF RENTER: The renter must be over the age of (Example) 25 years old and must occupy the unit during the dates stated on the contract. The renter agrees not to exceed the maximum # of (Example) 5 people in the unit.

Upon check-in at ________________ (Name of Resort) Front Desk, the renter agrees to show ID and to sign a credit card slip. ID and credit card must be in the same name as on the rental contract.

Renter agrees to pay for all incidental charges imposed by __________________ (Name of Resort) including: energy charge, occupancy taxes and hotel taxes (Estimate of $ ________ per week). Telephone charges, food, beverage or any other incurred expenses billed to the unit are the responsibility of the renter. The renter is responsible for theft, damages, repairs, or replacement of furnishings missing from the unit.

OBLIGATION OF OWNER: Upon receipt of full payment of $_________, the owner will notify ______________ (Name of Resort) informing the resort that the renter will be occupying unit #________ for __________________ (dates).

When _________________ (Name of Resort) confirms the name change for the unit, the owner will forward a copy of the letter (or e-mail) from the resort confirming the unit has been reserved in the name of the renter.
_____________________________________________________________________________ ______

WHEN SIGNED BY OWNER AND RENTER AND NOTARIZED THIS AGREEMENT IS A LEGAL AND BINDING CONTRACT.

OWNER:
Print Name _________________________ Signature _________________________

Address _______________________________________________________

Home Phone _____________ Work Phone _________________ Email _____________

NOTARIZED _______________________________


RENTER:
Print Name ________________________________ Signature ______________________________ Age 25 or over ____ Yes ____ No

Home Phone _________________ Work Phone _______________ E-mail __________

NOTARIZED ________________________________

SIGN & NOTARIZE BOTH COPIES. Keep 1 copy for your records. Return other copy in SASE.
 
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PerryM

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Be careful, be very careful

The rental agreement is the one that floats around the internet – it has several severe flaws:

1) It does not require the renter to be at least 18 years old – this contract would be illegal in most if not all states if a 16 year-old signed it.

2) The Cancellation part allows the renter to re-rent the unit. A smart renter who got a bargain price could re-rent the unit and ask the owner to change the name. Who knows what promises our renter gave to the new renter.

3) There is no security deposit mentioned. If our renter has a credit card with $500 of credit on it he may be able to check in the front desk but will not be able to pay any damages – just who pays next? It's not hard to charge $500 on vacation and you, the owner, will be the next phone call when our renter balks. Why should not the renter punch a hole in the wall?

4) The rental agreement does not require the renter to be present during the entire stay. Mommy can check a bunch of teenage girls in and then take her own vacation – this is inviting trouble. Imagine a wild party with some horrible disaster – just who will the lawyers seek for some money? Why you, the landlord of course.

There are lesser problems with the contract but you get the idea – use this rental agreement with extreme caution. Expect to get the same amount of protection from it as you paid for it.
 
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Liz from N.J.

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Perry - This rental agreement does not float around the internet. Because I made this agreement up myself; it is not my agreement (contract) that is "floating around".

Regarding the "flaws" that you stated.

1. My 1st contract did not require the renter to be at least 18 years old - I was thinking about that "clause" but didn't put it in as I didn't know how to word it at first. That's why I asked if anyone had any thoughts of what I should add or delete.

I have revised my agreement (contract) and put in a "age clause". I put 25 years old or older. Even though "over 25 years old" can be irresponsible, I personally don't want to rent to anyone under 25 years old.

Two sentences I did borrow from someone else's rental agreement that was posted on this board. It's the part about "The renter agrees not to sublet the unit. The rental rights are non-transferable.


2. You stated that my cancellation part allows the renter to re-rent the unit. My contract agreement did not state that the renter could re-rent the unit. It did state that the OWNER could re-rent the unit if the renter cancelled. But I did fix the wording so there is no wrong interpertation.

3. Because of your statement, I did put in about the security deposit. But I personally would not put that in my contract. I feel that a renter would be "put off" by that clause and that I would have a harder time renting my unit.

If the renter had paid me "in full", I feel that they are (hopefully) honest and a trustworthy person. And they would not recklessly damage the unit on purpose.

Regarding a Security Depost: At La Cabana in Aruba, I own 5 weeks timeshare at La Cabana which I bought last year in '05. I did use one of my weeks last April (which I bought in February). The other 4 weeks I bought in August and they are for this April coming. I rented those 4 weeks for this year.

I am not sure if last April if La Cabana took a deposit on my credit card on check-in (they probably did - but I don't remember how much).

But last month I rented someone's timeshare at La Cabana for Christmas week and a $250.00 deposit was put on my credit card on check-in. The $250.00 showed up on my credit statement afer a couple of days (I had my laptop and I check my credit card statements almost every day). I don't know if every timeshare resort does this, but La Cabana must feel that $250.00 is enough for any incurred charges or damages to the unit. Since La Cabana put through this charge immediately upon check-in; they are 1st to be paid by the credit card company even if the renter may have a $500.00 limit on their credit card. So I feel that I don't need to ask for a Secuity Depost.

The difference of what I spent at La Cabana in restaurant charges, interenet service, etc. (which was less than $250.00) and the $250.00 was credited back to my credit card upon check-out.

4. Because of your suggestion, I did put in the contract that the renter must be in the unit during the week(s) rented. That was a very valid point. Thanks for pointing it out.

Perry - Thank you for your input. If you or anyone else has anything to add, I would be happy to hear any suggestions.
 
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PerryM

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Don’t assume that your renter has a lick of common sense

Liz,

The look and phrases that jumped out at me caused me to jump to my conclusion. I did not mean to put your document down just to offer omissions from the ones I’ve gotten from other sources.

This is a legal document binding the landlord to the renter and hopefully nothing will go wrong. However, just like insurance, a lawyer will add in about 10 – 20 more paragraphs to cover a myriad of horrible things that could conceivably go wrong.

It’s important that the age of the renter be spelled out and that it be at least 18 years old and I demand 25 for my rentals.

I get a 10% security deposit on all my rentals and they are approaching 100 now. I’ve never had a single renter complain. I know that that security deposit makes for a great renter.

I’ve had a mom do exactly what I wrote about – she was going to drop off 6 high school kids, one of which was her daughter, and go 300 miles away on vacation. Don’t assume that your renter has a lick of common sense – assume the opposite and both of you will have a much better rental.

I have learned the hard way just how wacky some renters are and have modified my rental lease over the years to include some of their antics.

Good luck,

P.S.
My rental document is over 6 pages long.
 
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Buzzmom

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I'm in the process of renting out a unit for the first time. How exactly is a security deposit handled? Do you request an additional $500 check from the renter, indicating it will be fully refunded should no damage be done to the unit? How would this be worded in a rental agreement? Thanks in advance.
 

PerryM

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10%

Mom,

I have a paragraph in my rental agreement that basically states that the security deposit is 10% of the rental price and will be returned 14 days after check-out IF there are no problems reported by the resort.

The topic of a security deposit MUST be brought up BEFORE the rental agreement is sent – its part of the cost to the renter. For a $2,400 rental an additional $240 is required to be paid at the same time as the rental.

If you use PayPal you lose 3+% of the security deposit to PayPal (if a commercial account). This is a small price to pay for the renter always keeping in mind that you already have $240 of his money that can’t be skipped out of.

14 days after check-out I hand write a letter thanking the renter and including my personal check for the deposit. I send out an eMail shortly after check-out since the renter almost always contacts me to remind me of the deposit.
 

ml855

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Ebay, or post an ad?

First of all, thanks for a great thread! I'm about to advertise my first rental and have learned a lot from this posting.

We're about to list a rental week that we have reserved in May and I'm wondering where the best site is to list this at? Since the rental is less then 90 days from now we don't have a lot of time for posting on Redweek, etc. so I'm leaning towards using Ebay instead. I'm ok with setting relatively low opening price with no reserve since it's a popular resort and I'm mostly concerned with recouping my maintenance fees so I would expect to get at least this amount.

I'm curious from the seasoned pro's here.... given the short lead time, should I go right to ebay or should I try to post the ad on Redweek, TUG first?

Thanks,
Matt
 

HDChrome

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Security Deposit

I have a paragraph in my rental agreement that basically states that the security deposit is 10% of the rental price and will be returned 14 days after check-out IF there are no problems reported by the resort.

When the renter checks in....they are required to submit a charge card. Wouldn't they be responsible for any damage? I never asked for a security deposit and I'm wondering if maybe I should be?
 
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