Another Elder Care Thread (Finances)

[puppymommo]

Seems like there have recently been several threads about caring for our elderly relatives.

My dad is 86 years old, living in a senior residence (not assisted living) where he gets his meals and that's it. He loves it, plays bridge 2-3 times a week and has friends. He has been in the hospital followed by nursing home stays several times in the past year. Out of 4 siblings, only one lives in the same state, 40 miles one way. The rest of us live in other states. I live furthest away: he lives on the west coast, I live in the midwest.

There are of course a number of issues but right now the biggest is that he has been asking my brother for money on a regular basis. Turns out brother has given him $12,000 over the past year. He makes good money but with a daughter in college he can't keep this up. Brother has room and has been campaigning for Dad to come live with him (several states away) so he can be sure he is getting the care he needs.

Nobody really wants this as Dad will be heartbroken to leave his home and give up his independence. But he is not being forthcoming about why he cannot live on his pension plus social security (about $4000/month combined). He vaguely says medical bills which is possible but he has medicare plus a supplement. The main problem is that we just don't know where the money is going and how to help him. We don't know if he is becoming incompetent, if someone is taking advantage of him, or if his medical bills really are $12,000 a year?

Has anyone gone through something like this?

 

[elaine]

The 1st thing to do is have someone visit Dad and ask him (in advance) to gather up his bank statements (or go online and get access while there) and medical bills and go thru them with Dad. Call it an end of the year check-up--budget for 2016. This will give insight into what is happening with the $. Maybe his Drs. aren't properly submitting bills--or maybe Dad didn't give them the medicare gap info. Other options, esp. if suspicious bank info is found, is to give an adult child POA on his bank accounts (he has to fill out a form and consent) and setting up auto-pay for rent, etc. Many times parents are Very resistant to the above--so Dad would need to understand that kids are willing to all chip in some to help Dad ($4K from each kid is easier than $12K from 1) to help him stay where he wants to live, but that they need to see these bank statements/bills to "set up a budget" for 2016. Elaine

 

[DeniseM]

How about sitting down with him to get everything ready for his taxes? That would be logical, and maybe less confrontational.

 

[stmartinfan]

The budget issue seems like a big red flag that something is wrong. It's especially tricky because you all live so far away and can't easily observe if there are other behavior issues. Is there an administrator or a friend in the building that you could check in with to see if they have observed any thing?

The suggestion to get access to his bank account and other statements is a good one. Also going through all his medical bills, explanations of benefits, etc., would be important. Medicare plus the supplements, etc., is confusing for even those of us who are much younger than he is. Recently, Medicare started rejecting our bills; after several phone calls to get routed to the right place, we found out our records had erroneously been coded as having other insurance! We got it straightened out, but only after much time and persistence. And of course, the doctors and hospitals keep sending you bills for the full amount!

i would encourage you to start a conversation with your siblings, to be sure you're all in agreement on how to proceed. You want to present a united front. And the brother lending him money should probably stop, which should help get answers on why his short.

 

[tfalk]

PLEASE have someone sit down with him and figure out where the money is going. You DO NOT want to have the problem I had with my mother after my father passed away, finding out the money is going to pay credit card bills... to the tune of 6 figures...

Yes, you read that right, 6 figures...

 

[Passepartout]

We found that the FIL, and another senior FIL of the son's, was sending large amounts to 'sweepstakes winnings', and other telephone marketed scams. His mailbox was stuffed to the gills with offers to get rich quick if he'd only send more money. We had to have his mail e-routed to my wife (his daughter) Eventually (it took years) the harassment stopped. The kids had to turn their FIL over to adult protective services.

People with senior parents- especially those with income that seem on the surface to be far above the necessary amount for them to live comfortably- need to have 'the talk' with them.

WARNING: Those vulnerable seniors will fight, lie, obfuscate, do whatever it takes to ensure that their being scammed remains hidden from their adult kids. They view it as one more way that others are trying to take over their lives.

Good luck with this. It can really be a problem.

Jim

 

[vacationhopeful]

Yes ... the PARENT in them will FIGHT YOU tooth and nail ... my Dad refused to be forthcoming to ME (the local child) but would share everything and totally trust the daughter 1500 miles away ... who I would place a phone call to her ..asking what time should I pick her up at the airport tomorrow. He would confide and comply with her ... but I had to not be in the house for him to chat like a little birdie.

PIA ... competent (maybe) but lucid enough (sometimes) to DRIVE us KIDS stark raving MAD.

Welcome to the World of Elder Care ... stock up on wine (or the wacky weed) ... you all will need that and lots of FF miles.

 

[artringwald]

When Aging Parents Can’t Manage Their Money

This excellent article just appeared in The Bottom Line:

http://bottomlinepersonal.com/when-aging-parents-cant-manage-their-money/

HOW TO TAKE CONTROL

Elderly parents typically don’t want their adult children taking control of their finances. And most adult children don’t relish the idea of taking control. Handling their own financial matters is challenging enough for those adult children. But the day might arrive when there is not much choice. As parents age, *ensuring that their financial future is not threatened might require immediate intervention. Many people experience a decline in cognitive function starting in their 70s or 80s. They might seem perfectly sharp for much of the time, but their ability to manage their finances could be increasingly diminished. This causes them to make costly money mistakes and become more vulnerable to scams.

 

[Icc5]

Financial Advocate

If I'm not mistaken most states have financial advocates (might be city or senior center things) that for a small fee will check up on the finances a few times a year. I know most older people don't want this over site but it is either that or they lose their financial ability all together.
I see it like a driving issue. They never want to talk about it but once you you them why lots go along. With my mother the car issue got settled when I asked her how she would feel if she hit and killed a young child? She thought about it a day and called me to say she would sell her car.
With money, there is only so much so if needed you need to push the issue. Before you do though have a plan. Call all the local agency's since they have had to deal with this over and over.
Good luck, not an easy issue.

 

[Pat H]

What does your dad pay out of his $4000 income? Housing, Medicare supplement, Plan D, prescriptions, car ins? Does he have a POA? POA can access financial info. I've spent 25 yrs working with Financial Elder Abuse and it's appalling to see seniors taken advantage of.

 

[VacationForever]

$4000 is barely enough without major medical expenses. Senior apartments plus meals usually run at about $3000, depending on the state/area and quality of the apartment and meals. That leaves about $1000 for Medicare insurance payment, personal items (clothes, personal care items), transportation etc. I can see how he would need another 12K if he had been in/out of hospital and needed to pay hospital co-pay etc.

 

[easyrider]

Seems like there have recently been several threads about caring for our elderly relatives.

My dad is 86 years old, living in a senior residence (not assisted living) where he gets his meals and that's it. He loves it, plays bridge 2-3 times a week and has friends. He has been in the hospital followed by nursing home stays several times in the past year. Out of 4 siblings, only one lives in the same state, 40 miles one way. The rest of us live in other states. I live furthest away: he lives on the west coast, I live in the midwest.

There are of course a number of issues but right now the biggest is that he has been asking my brother for money on a regular basis. Turns out brother has given him $12,000 over the past year. He makes good money but with a daughter in college he can't keep this up. Brother has room and has been campaigning for Dad to come live with him (several states away) so he can be sure he is getting the care he needs.

Nobody really wants this as Dad will be heartbroken to leave his home and give up his independence. But he is not being forthcoming about why he cannot live on his pension plus social security (about $4000/month combined). He vaguely says medical bills which is possible but he has medicare plus a supplement. The main problem is that we just don't know where the money is going and how to help him. We don't know if he is becoming incompetent, if someone is taking advantage of him, or if his medical bills really are $12,000 a year?

Has anyone gone through something like this?

I think we spent about $80,000 a year to care for my inlaws at their home. There were a few times that we spent more because of nursing home visits and hospital bills. One of the items that was very expensive was my mil's prescriptions. One of her pills was $1700 a month. We went through these and discovered the $1700 a month pill could be made at a compounding pharmacy for $90 a month and the rest could be generic. This saved quite a bit of money.

The driving dealio was tough at first as they had keys all over the place. The biggest problem was they would get to the mail and stash it. Once we figured out that we needed the bills and medicare stuff sent to our house everything was fine.

It was a tough go, imo, to take care of the folks but it was nothing compared to dealing with my wife's sister. If I could do it over I would not consider anything she said, ever. She was and still is a negative type of narcissist who can suck the joy out of any situation, especially when she drinks, which seems to be any time she speaks to me.

We are almost to the end of this now. The one thing I learned is that my wife and I will not leave any concerns or loose ends for our kids to deal with is what I hope.

Bill