[ALL DEBATE CONTENT REMOVED FROM ORIGINAL THREAD PLACED HERE] All debate topics for the ongoing Wyndham resort closure actions...

[HitchHiker71]

Unfortunately, one shoe will never fit all, and even I understand that there will be some unhappy people. I think you just have to come to acceptance, because what we want, or what we type here, is not going to sway what is going to happen in the end. Wyndham is going to do what is best for them.

One can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. Hard choices are just that, hard choices.

It stinks for me. I have great memories in Shawnee (like when I locked my keys in the trunk unloading our car), Atlantic City and Newport. Coming from NY, everyone from my family would use my extra points at Shawnee for a long weekend. But like HitchHiker said, the only constant in life is change. I think we just have to accept it, and appreciate the great times and memories we had, and move on and realize we will still have a great time and great memories, just differently than we did.

Likewise. This reminds me of an old adage. Some things in life come for a reason, some for a season, and some for a lifetime. But even those things that come for a lifetime, don't remain the same throughout our lifetime. This is true for people, places and things. Hence the only constant in life is change. This includes timesharing, whether we like it or not.

 

[chapjim]

This is true but like us many older folks have had given their children/grandchildren vacations and had their children travel with them. We have been to most of the Wyndham resorts throughout the United States including spending months in Hawaii and have weddings in the Caribbean, etc. Most times either some of or all the family have been able to join us. These were cherished times.

These good times are now in the past and due to age and health issues my wife and I no longer can or want to travel long distances. This is why the closing of the Legacy resorts is so devastating to us. There are no resorts that are within a doable days travel time for us unless you consider NYC and DC.. Now, unless the kids drive we are confined to home. There are many reasons that one night motel stays are not an option. These personal issues make flying and trains impossible too.

Surprising to us, our entire family was also very upset with these local closings. Their life schedule made these resorts a part of vacation plans and weekend getaways. Now, they are forced to fly to Bonnet Creek, Myrtle Beach, or another of their favorite resorts. They had planned to keep our Wyndham ownership after we are gone but with this new decision by Wyndham this too is now up in the air. So what do we do?

As you can see, one shoe does not fit all.

If you're within a short day's drive from the Washington DC area, you might look into AmTrak's AutoTrain. It has two terminals -- Lorton, VA (just off I-95, about 20 miles south of the District) and Sanford, FL, just north of Orlando. It's an overnight trip that leaves both terminals about 4 PM and arrives at the other terminal at 9 AM (often earlier than that). Show time at the terminal is a couple of hours before departure to allow for vehicle loading.

When you turn your vehicle over to AmTrak personnel, you take the things you need for entertainment and hygiene with you. We always booked coach seats -- basically airline seats with a lot more room between rows. They do have a couple of different classes of sleeping rooms. Meals are available but not gratis (they used to be). There is a lounge car with a modest bar. WiFi on the train is usually pretty good if all you're doing is email, browsing, etc.

The AutoTrain is not cheap but if you don't feel up to driving I-95, it is a great way to get to Florida. We used to use AutoTrain quite often but my wife doesn't like it. The frequent whistles and the side-to-side motion bothered her. I loved it! For one thing, I'm driving my own car in Florida instead of a rental that I don't know how it is to drive, where the switches and knobs are. Plus, if you nod off on the AutoTrain, you don't end up in the pine trees or a field.

Since we stopped using AutoTrain, we stop someplace in SC for a couple of nights both ways. Usually it is Wyndham Lake Marion in Santee, SC. They have great units but Santee isn't exactly a beehive of activity, which we don't mind.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, from a legal standpoint this is true. However, most of us know that this has been a total coordinated effort by Wyndham/TNL. It wasn't a coincidence that the K&L Gates law firm and HilCO Real Estate is handling all or most of the resorts. This doesn't even consider the fact that Wyndham had enough votes thus knowing that the bankruptcy vote would succeed prior to the actual vote.

I am curious, if there are any properties that might have been on the cusp that Wyndham didn't have enough controlling votes to force a special election? I suspect there may be other properties in similar occupancy situations but they can't ram through the agenda like they could with the associations they do control and are being discussed here?

 

[bizaro86]

I am curious, if there are any properties that might have been on the cusp that Wyndham didn't have enough controlling votes to force a special election? I suspect there may be other properties in similar occupancy situations but they can't ram through the agenda like they could with the associations they do control and are being discussed here?

I suspect they would have done the ones where they had the most control first. If it goes well and other owners vote in favour I wouldn't be surprised if there's another round of properties where they have less control selected.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I am curious, if there are any properties that might have been on the cusp that Wyndham didn't have enough controlling votes to force a special election? I suspect there may be other properties in similar occupancy situations but they can't ram through the agenda like they could with the associations they do control and are being discussed here?

I think you’re getting way ahead of yourself. This process has barely started. OIRC is the only resort to have even filed bankruptcy. It will likely take 1-2 years for this first set of resorts to play out - and we won’t know the end results for that same period of time. Prognosticating about what may happen a few years out from today when we haven’t even seen a single resort successfully navigate this process yet seems very premature IMHO.


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[dioxide45]

I think you’re getting way ahead of yourself. This process has barely started. OIRC is the only resort to have even filed bankruptcy. It will likely take 1-2 years for this first set of resorts to play out - and we won’t know the end results for that same period of time. Prognosticating about what may happen a few years out from today when we haven’t even seen a single resort successfully navigate this process yet seems very premature IMHO.


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I'm not sure that's what I am doing. Just hypothesizing if there were perhaps some other resorts on the table that were considered where they didn't have controlling interest to force a special meeting. Then which ones those could be. I am sure we won't know because no one really saw these ones coming. Though this situation could loom over the heads of resorts that are/were on the brink. It isn't like they are testing the waters with one or two. Sure OIRC is the first, but not the only one. They have 13 more lined up right behind them.

 

[CO skier]

Just hypothesizing

Anyone can do that. Really just meaningless hypothetical bloviating based on zero facts.

 

[dioxide45]

Anyone can do that. Really just meaningless hypothetical bloviating based on zero facts.

Some of the greatest discoveries in history started with a hypothesis. You can look them up. I am going to be the next Albert Einstein!

 

[dioxide45]

Any such hypothesizing should be moved to the other thread. Please don’t gum up this thread with any theories, legal or otherwise, that aren’t directly related to the current actions.

Sorry. That other thread is specifically labeled "Legal debate thread". My question was about which properties were or weren't in scope and maybe why. So I think you could probably understand why I wasn't clear. I'll refrain from any other discussion on the matter since no one really knows the answer anyway.

 

[paxsarah]

Sorry. That other thread is specifically labeled "Legal debate thread". My question was about which properties were or weren't not in scope and maybe why. So I think you could probably understand why I wasn't clear. I'll refrain from any other discussion on the matter since no one really knows the answer anyway.

Maybe @HitchHiker71 could add "and speculation" after "legal debate" and that would cover it.

 

[shawnee83]

Somebody asked how long Wyndham has been planning this exit. I'm sure they have been keeping an eye on the situation for some time... I think that's part of "due diligence" or whatever they call it, making sure your business is profitable and keeping an eye out for problems.

For whatever reason, they probably made the decision early in 2025. K&L Gates and Hilco seem to be very experienced in this kind of business so once T&L/Wyndham decided to pursue this path, they were able to get thing started pretty quickly. I think the notice on the Wyndham web site went up around June or July. It does not have a date, but the sales weasels showed it to us at the end of July. Maybe that's when the planning started in earnest.

By the way, the website set up to track the Orlando International Resort Club (OIRC) bankruptcy is fascinating for us wannabe lawyers. I found a website called PACER where you can review court filings, but this other website is so much easier to use https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/home?clientId=3752

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe @HitchHiker71 could add "and speculation" after "legal debate" and that would cover it.

Yeah, that may be a good idea. Though I don't think it really matters much. It isn't all that easy to figure out what belongs where now. You basically just have to post and if you get slapped, you get slapped. I find it odd that there were several other off topic posts about renting over in the other thread, but only when I chimed in about something that was of interest to me, I was the only one that was publicly admonished.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Somebody asked how long Wyndham has been planning this exit. I'm sure they have been keeping an eye on the situation for some time... I think that's part of "due diligence" or whatever they call it, making sure your business is profitable and keeping an eye out for problems.

For whatever reason, they probably made the decision early in 2025. K&L Gates and Hilco seem to be very experienced in this kind of business so once T&L/Wyndham decided to pursue this path, they were able to get thing started pretty quickly. I think the notice on the Wyndham web site went up around June or July. It does not have a date, but the sales weasels showed it to us at the end of July. Maybe that's when the planning started in earnest.

By the way, the website set up to track the Orlando International Resort Club (OIRC) bankruptcy is fascinating for us wannabe lawyers. I found a website called PACER where you can review court filings, but this other website is so much easier to use https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/home?clientId=3752

Short answer - based upon my own understanding:

Q1 2025 - key business decisions made, planning phase started
Q2 2025 - planning completed, vendors engaged
Q3 2025 - plan execution started, initial public owner comm posted in July


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[dioxide45]

Short answer - based upon my own understanding:

Q1 2026 - key business decisions made, planning phase started
Q2 2026 - planning completed, vendors engaged
Q3 2026 - plan execution started, initial public owner comm posted in July


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I think you mean 2025?

 

[dioxide45]

Yeah, it's a coordinated plan but that doesn't make it sinister. I think this is almost certainly a net benefit for owners on average, and doing it in a more organized fashion should save money and make the process more efficient/faster.

I don't think it's sinister, but let's not kid ourselves, Wyndham is doing this primarily and 100% for their benefit. Sure, there are probably other owners that will see a benefit, perhaps a majority of them. There will still be many owners at these resorts, and within Club Wyndham, that don't like the change. Wyndham certainly isn't thinking about other owners when they made the decision. The decision was 100% that of Wyndham. It was a business decision. They controlled the required amount of the membership to ask for the special election and they controlled the required amount of the votes to decide the outcomes of the measures being voted on. They even put forth the measures to be voted on. While the HOA is a separate legal entity the decision is still 100% that of Wyndham. They could have continued to carry these resorts for years to come as they've done for many years prior. I am not saying it isn't a bad business decision on their part, but it is still their decision. The other owners don't really have a say. Especially the ones that would like to continue owning at these properties.

 

[shawnee83]

Sure, there are probably other owners that will see a benefit, perhaps a majority of them.

I'm one of them... but when I was at the "Special Meeting" I met a number of people who are very upset about this and have very emotional ties to their ownership at Shawnee. They probably represent a small percentage, but they would be among those that "don't like the change" as @dioxide45 says

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'm one of them... but when I was at the "Special Meeting" I met a number of people who are very upset about this and have very emotional ties to their ownership at Shawnee. They probably represent a small percentage, but they would be among those that "don't like the change" as @dioxide45 says

As I’ve said previously, you can choose to make all people happy some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.

Considering Wyndham itself is in point of fact a majority owner at all of the impacted resorts, the majority rules.


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[CO skier]

They (Wyndham) could have continued to carry these resorts for years to come as they've done for many years prior.

I do not know why people do not understand this makes Wyndham the good guys in the white hats at these resorts for all these years. It saved all individual owners at these resorts from years of 10+% annual mf increases and/or special assessments to cover what would have otherwise been "bad debt" on the books of each HOA.

The other owners don't really have a say.

This opinion fails to acknowledge the fact that these resorts were completely sold out at one time. Over time, 50+% of the owners at all these resorts voted with their feet, and Wyndham eventually wound up "holding the bag" for so many non-performing weeks, the obvious answer became resort closures. If there is any "blame" to assign, blame all the owners who abandoned their weeks, one way or another, at all these resorts.

 

[CO skier]

One can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. Hard choices are just that, hard choices.

Likewise. This reminds me of an old adage. Some things in life come for a reason, some for a season, and some for a lifetime. But even those things that come for a lifetime, don't remain the same throughout our lifetime. This is true for people, places and things. Hence the only constant in life is change. This includes timesharing, whether we like it or not.

Echoes of a post on Day 8 (July 18) of the original thread.

Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

Do UDI properties work the same. Do you just hold a certificate of beneficial interest and the actual deeds, or entire underlying deed to the property is held within the Fairshare Vacation Plan Trust? Or do you own a deed at a UDI property? No. I own all UDI and I haves deeds to the property...

tugbbs.com

There will be a bell curve of satisfaction with how this plays out. At one end of the curve are owners who would be satisfied only if Wyndham did nothing and "everything remains the same." They have no chance at a happy outcome because something is clearly going to change.

Solidly in the middle are owners who accept the swap and continue on in Club Wyndham with maintenance fees that are somewhat higher or lower than before the swap.

At the other end of the curve will be owners who do nothing, maybe because they have not used their ownership in years and have no idea what is going on, they just receive a check from the proceeds of the sale at some point in the future for something that was just costing them money, and they cannot believe their good fortune and as a bonus there are no more monthly maintenance fees.

 

[shawnee83]

Got a sort of mini-update from Club Wyndham Shawnee Village... sometime in the next 4-6 weeks a letter will be sent out that outlines the next steps in the process; however, it will not be coming from the resort. So I guess that puts it mid-December that we will see the next steps, probably a letter from K&L Gates. It also suggests (at least to me) that the bankruptcy/sale process will move forward for the HOA's that have already had their "special meetings."