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Air traffic control absences surge, hitting almost half of major US airports

1Kflyerguy said:
Not certain, but i think Congress, both House and Senate are some of the only people mandated to be to be paid during a shut down.
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Those that make the rules get paid, huh
 
ScoopKona said:
I look at it thusly -- with the shutdown, at least they aren't running things into the ground.
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Of course they are. Both sides.
 
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emeryjre said:
The government is stepping up the pressure
Cutting 10% of flights at 40 airports



Is this for safety or for spite??
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I do think it's actually for safety. There are just too many controllers not showing up (don't really blame them) for the remaining ones that do to safely handle all the traffic of a regular schedule at many airports.

Of course selfishly I do hope that this shutdown ends in the next week or two, before my Thanksgiving week flights.
 
sponger76 said:
I do think it's actually for safety. There are just too many controllers not showing up (don't really blame them) for the remaining ones that do to safely handle all the traffic of a regular schedule at many airports.

Of course selfishly I do hope that this shutdown ends in the next week or two, before my Thanksgiving week flights.
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Curious as to where you get your staffing numbers for Air Traffic Controllers
How do you know how many controllers are not showing up
Is there a website that shows the numbers in real time
 
emeryjre said:
Curious as to where you get your staffing numbers for Air Traffic Controllers
How do you know how many controllers are not showing up
Is there a website that shows the numbers in real time
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I don't have exact numbers, but I have a couple of friends who are controllers. Both started in the military before transitioning to the FAA. One is still showing up to work, the other is not. Both have said there are enough not showing up that it is having an effect. Yes, anecdotal but it's at least a data point as opposed to completely baseless conjecture that it's done out of spite. I also know a few TSA agents, and the problem there is even worse but that doesn't affect the flights themselves, just the amount of lines that can be open and how long it takes to get through them.
 
emeryjre said:
Curious as to where you get your staffing numbers for Air Traffic Controllers
How do you know how many controllers are not showing up
Is there a website that shows the numbers in real time
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It was widely reported in today's news that 40% are not showing up for work.
 
emeryjre said:
I guess I listen to different news than you do
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Some are not showing up. The exact percentage may not be available. But my delay in Houston last week was specifically communicated as Controller shortage. It was communicated to the pilot who told all the passengers.

TSA lines at IAH were 4 hrs at some point on Sunday. News report said it went up to 6 hours at some point over the weekend. When I checked the airport website on Monday morning, it was 3 hrs. I typically use terminal C with TSA precheck. Terminal C screening station was closed on Monday morning due to staff shortage. Even with the construction currently shutting down terminal B screening stations, I have never waited more than 5 minutes for screening at Terminal C the past two months.
 
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4 posts deleted: I know it's hard to separate the issues, but to keep this thread open, please steer away from politics.
 
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Why would a government be set up so this could happen? I paper it may make sense to keep one side from wasting money but lets be real when has that ever not been the case? Allow normal functions to continue. How can the government ask people to show up for work but not pay them?
 
am1 said:
How can the government ask people to show up for work but not pay them?
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The simple answer is it's because they really don't care.

Bill
 
am1 said:
How can the government ask people to show up for work but not pay them?
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Because politicians on both sides think their political goals are more important than the people their actions affect.
 
sponger76 said:
I don't have exact numbers, but I have a couple of friends who are controllers. Both started in the military before transitioning to the FAA. One is still showing up to work, the other is not. Both have said there are enough not showing up that it is having an effect. Yes, anecdotal but it's at least a data point as opposed to completely baseless conjecture that it's done out of spite. I also know a few TSA agents, and the problem there is even worse but that doesn't affect the flights themselves, just the amount of lines that can be open and how long it takes to get through them.
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My son is a commercial airline pilot and flies out of both JFK and LGA into many different destination airports in the eastern half of the US. I can assure everyone - there are major ATC shortages right now. Just ask any pilot flying in or out of any major airports - they know what's really ongoing and are interacting with ATCs all over the country on their flights.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me - why aren't ATCs considered excepted employees - or essential personnel - under current regulations - and therefore continue to get paid. The safety of every person flying lies in the hands of these folks. I really cannot think of another category of people that work for the government that literally have more lives in their hands on any one day than ATCs on average. One could argue over whether TSA personnel should fall into the same category - but if I had to choose between TSA and ATC - it's ATCs every day, and twice on Sunday.
 
HitchHiker71 said:
One thing that doesn't make sense to me - why aren't ATCs considered excepted employees - or essential personnel - under current regulations - and therefore continue to get paid.
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Because when government shuts down, they shut down the most useful to the most people services to make the populations pawns in their game. If they could shut down the post office and disrupt everyone's Amazon purchases, they would. Otto von Bismarck was simultaneously completely right and completely wrong about government.
 
HitchHiker71 said:
My son is a commercial airline pilot and flies out of both JFK and LGA into many different destination airports in the eastern half of the US. I can assure everyone - there are major ATC shortages right now. Just ask any pilot flying in or out of any major airports - they know what's really ongoing and are interacting with ATCs all over the country on their flights.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me - why aren't ATCs considered excepted employees - or essential personnel - under current regulations - and therefore continue to get paid. The safety of every person flying lies in the hands of these folks. I really cannot think of another category of people that work for the government that literally have more lives in their hands on any one day than ATCs on average. One could argue over whether TSA personnel should fall into the same category - but if I had to choose between TSA and ATC - it's ATCs every day, and twice on Sunday.
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I had thought about that during the last shut down. Who ever decided that Air Traffic Controllers are not essential enough to pay throughout a shut down are idiots. As far as I'm concerned , no one should not be paid during a shut down except those responsible for the shut down.

Bill
 
The issue of Air Traffic Controllers overworked and underpaid has a long history
A close friend of mine was an ATC aboard an Aircraft carrier at Yankee station for 3 tours
When he left the navy after his 6 years in the early 70s
He was actively recruited by civilian authorities to work as an ATC
He turned down all offers to continue
His reasons were long hours and low pay relative to the responsibility
 
Superchief said:
We flew back RSW to CVG yesterday with no problems. I was a little concerned because our inbound plane was coming from La Guardia, but it was also on time. We actually arrived early, but had to wait for gate agent to see us and attach the jetway. TSA lines on our outbound and inbound flights were very long, but it was due to heavy crowds rather than lack of agents. RSW airport has really gotten busy and there are never enough seats for waiting passengers.

We are traveling by Amtrak to Charlottesville next Sunday and renting a car to Williamsburg. Amtrak LD trains seem to be running as normal, but train traffic control is done by the railroads. The best solution to end the shutdown is to not pay senators until they agree on a budget. Compromise requires some adult behavior.
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Somehow I'm hoping our Senators are not living 'Paycheck to paycheck'.
 
b2bailey said:
Interesting to me that OAK land is on this list -- but SJC San Jose is not.
(Good for me, if not resolved by 11/18).
SJC is much busier.
SFO is on the list, no surprise.
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San Jose does handle more passengers than Oakland. I wonder if it has anything to do with where they fly. And by the way, I was surprised to find out that San Jose is busier than Oakland. The very few times I've flown in or out of there it didn't seem all that busy.

Our local airports aren't on the list, no surprise, but pretty much all of the cities you need to transit through, are.
 
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