Advice for best deal/usage

[harveyhaddixfan]

Me again!

I'm trying to figure out which contract may be best for me to buy. I have it nailed down to the 168k EOY or 84k annual. That would get me a Sun-Thurs stay in Prime and a Sun-Thurs in High at Old Town Alexandria (This is my main wish list destination for now.)

Here's where it gets tricky:

Royal Sea Cliff, 168k EOY, Even, MF is listed as $55 and all 2018 points available.
SeaWatch Plantation, 84k annual, MF is listed as $50 and all 2018 points available.
Oceanside, 168k EOY, Odd, MF is listed as $44 and first use is 2019.

I lost out on the Oceanside on ebay. It went for $850. The other 2 are through Sumday and I'm 99% sure they'll take $300 for either. Since we're halfway through 2018, it's not likely I'd even be able to use the 2018 points on either of these.

Do I go with SeaWatch and hope that it gets transferred in time to get a week somewhere? Or would I be better off holding out for a lower MF? Seems like $50 a month for 84k a year is a decent deal, but I'm having trouble wading through all the MF listings in the sticky as I'm not sure if there's other charges (Program fee?) that need to be added.

Side note: I know you get an RCI account with the Wyndham account, but what do they do if you already have an RCI Points account?

 

[Jan M.]

They will give you an RCI weeks account which costs you nothing.

 

[CCdad]

The minimum program fee is $131 per year without Plus Partners on your account & $151 with it.

You only get free 1 reservation transaction per 77k annual points. It's $19 online / $39 per VC call for each additional one if you need to make a change after you book a reservation.

Don't forget about HK credits if you're a new owner. The cost of those may add additional fees to a resevation.

I'd wait for a small lower MF contract to buy. If you really can't go b4 2019 because it'll take 4-6 months to transfer it to you, why rush into buying a higher MF contract?

 

[BDMX2]

One thing to note about those 2018 points, if you go with either of those, is that even though you're beyond the banking window with Wyndham, they can be deposited into your RCI account until the end of the year. I had a contract transfer in late December last year and now we have a chunk of points to use in RCI at some point in time over the next couple of years (plus their transaction fee of course), but at least they weren't thrown away altogether.

 

[tschwa2]

You will still have to pay 100% for your RCI points account. You get an included RCI weeks account with the Wyndham points, the same as you get one with the RCI points account. This won't help you though.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

The minimum program fee is $131 per year without Plus Partners on your account & $151 with it.

I'd wait for a small lower MF contract to buy. If you really can't go b4 2019 because it'll take 4-6 months to transfer it to you, why rush into buying a higher MF contract?

I did see the part about reservation confirmations and housekeeping credits. That’s where I figured I needed 154k min over 2 years to get 2 RC and enough housekeeping credits for those 2 reservations.

What’s a good MF for 84k every year or 168k EOY?

The Oceanside one ($44) I saw was $6 cheaper than another one ($50), but $550 more up front. That would take 90 months to make up the difference.

 

[bendadin]

Look over on TUG2. Offers do come around, often times for free.

https://tug2.com/timeshare-classifi...ement&ForSale=True&PriceMin=0.01&PriceMax=500

 

[capital city]

That's not going to end up being enough points for you. I know were all different but IMO your making a mistake. Buy a good low mf 231,000 contract and if you can't use all the points now then bank them for 2 years from now. I guarantee you will end up using them eventually and probably wish you had even more.

 

[Jan M.]

That's not going to end up being enough points for you. I know were all different but IMO your making a mistake. Buy a good low mf 231,000 contract and if you can't use all the points now then bank them for 2 years from now. I guarantee you will end up using them eventually and probably wish you had even more.

I completely agree. When we first bought years ago we started out with 77,000 points. It didn't take us long to figure out that even twice that wasn't going to be quite enough. You will surprise yourself at how quickly you will get used to being able to go and start looking at other resorts to go to also.

There are often 308,000 point deeds at Grand Desert for sale. That is a decent number of points. The resort has pretty good maintenance fees.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

I probably wouldn’t be able to use more points right now. I already have 2 other weeks that are in RCI Points. One in NC I get 69k annually and only use 37k to reserve a week at Beachwoods in Kitty Hawk, NC. I also have week 27 at Summer Bay in Clermont, FL that gives me 126k in even years.

So I have a surplus of 190k RCI points to use over 2 years. I’ve been booking the Wyndham in Panama City Beach the last few years for about 35k and it’s cost me roughly $700 this year for a 1BR. I ended up in an upper 1BR deluxe that would have been 250k Wyndham points.

My main goal of picking up a Wyndham contract is to do 1 Sun-Thurs at Old Town Alexandria each year. This is something that I’ll never be able to book in RCI. Prime season would be 90k and High would be 75k. That’s how I arrived at a 168k contract. I could book a stay and then push the balance to the next year if I’m on a 168k EOY contract or if on an 84k annual I could book the prime week and borrow ahead (I think?) or book the high week and push the balance forward.

I mostly have it figured out, but haven’t watched Wyndham contracts long enough to know what’s a bad, good or great deal.

 

[capital city]

If that's really all you want then maybe your better off just hooking up with an owner that will rent it for you. You get charged a premium for having lower points because of the minimum program fee so you can probably rent for equal cost without the long term commitment

 

[Lisa P]

I have it nailed down to the 168k EOY or 84k annual. That would get me a Sun-Thurs stay in Prime and a Sun-Thurs in High at Old Town Alexandria (This is my main wish list destination for now.)

A 4-night stay mid-week... if you bought a lower MF contract for 105K, your maintenance fees would be similar but you could get 5 mid-week nights in Prime season (18K-20K/night) and 5-6 nights in High season at Wyn OTA.

Royal Sea Cliff, 168k EOY, Even, MF is listed as $55 and all 2018 points available.
SeaWatch Plantation, 84k annual, MF is listed as $50 and all 2018 points available.
Oceanside, 168k EOY, Odd, MF is listed as $44 and first use is 2019.

Just wondering why you're seeking an oceanfront contract... high maint fees, higher risk of assessment after storm damage... while you're not mentioning a desire for ARP during prime season at these destinations.

RCI account with the Wyndham account, but what do they do if you already have an RCI Points account?

Nothing different. You'd keep both separately.

I did see the part about reservation confirmations and housekeeping credits. That’s where I figured I needed 154k min over 2 years to get 2 RC and enough housekeeping credits for those 2 reservations.

Careful with the EOY points as your only contract. You pay half the maintenance fees each year but I believe you receive the points, the free transactions/reservations, the housekeeping credits, all in the EO usage years. You'd have to deposit points by March of your usage year into the in-between-years (and pay a fee each time?) so that you could vacation with them annually. Housekeeping credits go with the points but I'm not sure about the free transactions/reservations. Seems likely to get stuck with added fees, if this is your only Wyndham contract.

What’s a good MF for 84k every year or 168k EOY?

Very low maintenance fees may be <$4.50/year per 1,000 annual points or <$0.375/month per 1,000 annual points in the contract plus $131 annual Program Fee. If you look at the sticky (2018 Maintenance Fees) at the top of the Wyndham forum, you'll see some resorts with MF below $4/year per 1,000 points plus the Program Fee.
Ex., for 84K annual, look for under $32/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Ex., for 105K annual, look for under $39/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Again, this assumes you want points to make reservations during the 10-month Standard Reservation window and you don't need ARP for tough primetime beachfront vacations at your home resort.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

A 4-night stay mid-week... if you bought a lower MF contract for 105K, your maintenance fees would be similar but you could get 5 mid-week nights in Prime season (18K-20K/night) and 5-6 nights in High season at Wyn OTA.

Just wondering why you're seeking an oceanfront contract... high maint fees, higher risk of assessment after storm damage... while you're not mentioning a desire for ARP during prime season at these destinations.

Nothing different. You'd keep both separately.

Careful with the EOY points as your only contract. You pay half the maintenance fees each year but I believe you receive the points, the free transactions/reservations, the housekeeping credits, all in the EO usage years. You'd have to deposit points by March of your usage year into the in-between-years (and pay a fee each time?) so that you could vacation with them annually. Housekeeping credits go with the points but I'm not sure about the free transactions/reservations. Seems likely to get stuck with added fees, if this is your only Wyndham contract.

Very low maintenance fees may be <$4.50/year per 1,000 annual points or <$0.375/month per 1,000 annual points in the contract plus $131 annual Program Fee. If you look at the sticky (2018 Maintenance Fees) at the top of the Wyndham forum, you'll see some resorts with MF below $4/year per 1,000 points plus the Program Fee.
Ex., for 84K annual, look for under $32/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Ex., for 105K annual, look for under $39/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Again, this assumes you want points to make reservations during the 10-month Standard Reservation window and you don't need ARP for tough primetime beachfront vacations at your home resort.

Thank you! Helpful info! I ran the math on a Sun-Thurs stay in Prime at OTA was 90k, high was 75k. That's where I figured the 168k EOY. I wasn't really looking at oceanfront or Hawaii, but that's what I was seeing as cheaper than others available. I'm waiting to see if someone with a TUG ad will take my offer on a 98K OTA contract as MF is only $4.83 and the 13mo ARP might be handy there. I'd love to find one of the small Bali Hai or Cantebury contracts, but the cost up front might not be worth it.

 

[tschwa2]

Thank you! Helpful info! I ran the math on a Sun-Thurs stay in Prime at OTA was 90k, high was 75k. That's where I figured the 168k EOY. I wasn't really looking at oceanfront or Hawaii, but that's what I was seeing as cheaper than others available. I'm waiting to see if someone with a TUG ad will take my offer on a 98K OTA contract as MF is only $4.83 and the 13mo ARP might be handy there. I'd love to find one of the small Bali Hai or Cantebury contracts, but the cost up front might not be worth it.

I am pretty sure OTA is higher than $4.83 and if you own less than 210,000 it will definitely be higher because you have to pay the minimum program fee

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

I am pretty sure OTA is higher than $4.83 and if you own less than 210,000 it will definitely be higher because you have to pay the minimum program fee

This was the screenshots a seller provided. If we make a deal, I’ll ask for the VOID letter in closing.

 

[tschwa2]

Did he own other points?
The program fee for Wyndham is: 2018 Program fee increased 1.8%: $0.58/1000 pts ($151 minimum) with Plus Partners, and $0.56/1000 pts ($131 minimum) without Plus Partners.

That means you are paying $151 whether you own 48,000 ever other year points or 260,000 annual points as the program fee in addition to the MF's set by the hoa.
So for 98,000 points instead of paying a program fee of $0.56 per 1000 you are paying the $131 (the minimum) which would add $1.34 per 1000 for that 98,000 contract. If the current owner owns more than 260,000, he only pays $0.56 per thousand so even if the screen shot is correct and includes the $0.56 per thousand you would pay $0.76 more per 1000 per year.

 

[paxsarah]

This is what was posted in the 2017 MFs thread. I didn’t dig back but presumably it came straight off of someone’s financial statement. So it’s probably a smidge higher this year.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

It's looking like they probably own those 2 contracts and the program fee is split between them so it would be about $62 more per year on the 98k contract. From what others have said, 10 months out at OTA shouldn't be much of an issue. I guess I'll keep looking for something cheaper. Thanks for saving me!

 

[bnoble]

If that's really all you want then maybe your better off just hooking up with an owner that will rent it for you. You get charged a premium for having lower points because of the minimum program fee so you can probably rent for equal cost without the long term commitment

Agreed. Contracts that small are tough: the program fee makes the $/K ratio high, and the transfer costs make it harder to sell later.

 

[Dave Landry]

That's not going to end up being enough points for you. I know were all different but IMO your making a mistake. Buy a good low mf 231,000 contract and if you can't use all the points now then bank them for 2 years from now. I guarantee you will end up using them eventually and probably wish you had even more.

Great advice! A contract of that size is better than paying the minimum maintenance fee for a smaller contract as well. I was going to purchase a 159k contract at Panama city Beach but it sold on me so went with the 259k and happy I did. Used most of it the first month they were assigned and could definitely use more.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

If you look at the sticky (2018 Maintenance Fees) at the top of the Wyndham forum, you'll see some resorts with MF below $4/year per 1,000 points plus the Program Fee.
Ex., for 84K annual, look for under $32/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Ex., for 105K annual, look for under $39/month Maint Fee plus $11/month Program Fee.
Again, this assumes you want points to make reservations during the 10-month Standard Reservation window and you don't need ARP for tough primetime beachfront vacations at your home resort.

I found a 105k annual at Kingsgate. The monthly is listed as $51.45, but I’m not sure if that’s right as it says they have 518k points. The sticky says $4.02 per thousand at Kingsgate.

They also have a 203k annual listed @ $89.40 monthly. If you run the math (x12 - $131 / points) they both come out to about $4.63 per thousand.

What am I missing? Seems like the 105k would be a good starter for me. The 203k is more than I can afford each month.

 

[Dave Landry]

I found a 105k annual at Kingsgate. The monthly is listed as $51.45, but I’m not sure if that’s right as it says they have 518k points. The sticky says $4.02 per thousand at Kingsgate.

They also have a 203k annual listed @ $89.40 monthly. If you run the math (x12 - $131 / points) they both come out to about $4.63 per thousand.

What am I missing? Seems like the 105k would be a good starter for me. The 203k is more than I can afford each month.

The assessment fee is probably right as maintenance fees can vary within resorts and you also have to pay the minimum program fee. I have heard of other owners having problems with the amount of points available being incorrect. Usually it seems like it's not in their favor. If you do purchase perhaps it will be caught and corrected when transferring to you. If not perhaps you will get use of that many points, but I seriously doubt that.

 

[tschwa2]

I believe kingsgate is converterted fixed weeks so while some weeks in some size units might be as low as $4.02 not all would be at that level. Also the seller is paying the $0.56 program fee. Any time you own less than 230,000 or so you will be paying a higher program fee to get Wyndham their $131 minimum. On 105,000 your program fee would be $1.25 per 1000. You will probably have to pay $6 extra per month on that contract for $57.45 per month or $689.40 per year for 105,000 points.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

I believe kingsgate is converterted fixed weeks so while some weeks in some size units might be as low as $4.02 not all would be at that level. Also the seller is paying the $0.56 program fee. Any time you own less than 230,000 or so you will be paying a higher program fee to get Wyndham their $131 minimum. On 105,000 your program fee would be $1.25 per 1000. You will probably have to pay $6 extra per month on that contract for $57.45 per month or $689.40 per year for 105,000 points.

Sounds like I need to figure out how to make the 203k work as it would only be about $1-2 more than the listed amount and $4.72 per thousand. The 105k comes out to $5.31 plus the $131 program fee. Or am I better off staying away from Kingsgate?

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

Update:

I’ve found a few good contracts. Waiting to hear back on a 126k annual Bali Hai I made an offer on. It was listed as $519 MF annually, but I think the seller has additional contracts so it’s probably $60-70 more. Still a good deal.

I’m also looking at:

Bali Hai, 231k even, $43.01 a month MF

Fairfield Plantain, 105k annual, $40.46 a month MF (I believe this is a converted week and seems to be a low MF)

Grand Desert, 154k even, $29.90 monthly. I’m wondering if this seller also has additional contracts.

If I go with an EOY even, that wouldn’t give me use till 2020. Would I be able to borrow anything next year from 2020 if I have no points to start with?

I created a spreadsheet that calculates the annual and monthly amounts for an every year and every other year based on a $4.50 per 1000 MF as well as every year at $5.00 and $5.50. ((MF x points/1000) + $131) This has been very helpful to have at a glance to figure out what’s a good deal on many of the popular contract amounts.