Adding DC points to sold out resorts

[GreenTea]

This was discussed on FB.....someone said that weeks that MVC takes back via ROFR can not be added to "points" inventory....they have to be resold by Marriott as weeks. I thought once MVC took back a week they could "own" that number of points in the resort for point reservation.

So are the only point reservations at older resorts truly weeks turned into DP by the owner, not any that Marriott has re-aquired"?

 

[Fasttr]

At resorts that can be put into the Trust (most of them, but excluding some like Custom House, Aruba, etc), they do indeed put those underlying weeks into the Trust so they can then sell points against those weeks, and have the weeks available as DC inventory. For the ones that cannot be put into the Trust (either non US based, or because they are for a limited lease term like Custom House), I believe the FB poster is likely correct, they tend to resell those weeks via MVC resales.

 

[SueDonJ]

That doesn't sound right to me. MVW can convey any re-acquired Weeks to the DC Trust excepting only the ones mentioned by Fasttr (Weeks such as Custom House and similar that are sold as RTU can't be conveyed because MVW is leasing the property, Weeks that are at non-U.S. properties can't be conveyed because the U.S. and/or local laws don't allow it, etc.) MVW doesn't convey any Weeks that they accept as returns to be brokered by them in their Resales Operations, for obvious reasons, but any other unencumbered Weeks they acquire can be conveyed at any time. Since the DC inception Weeks taken through ROFR certainly can be and have been conveyed to the DC Trust.

(This is dioxide's ongoing Trust compilation thread: Recorded Trust Documents. It hasn't been updated for a while - I don't know if that's because they haven't conveyed anything for a while ...) Is it possible that the people on Facebook don't understand that Trust conveyances can be and are ongoing? Because it is true that MVW can't sell DC Points that aren't correlated to an existing conveyance.

{eta} A major concern/criticism that's been ongoing since the DC was introduced is that reacquiring Weeks and conveying them to the Trust will eventually lead to MVW - the Trustee, anyway - gaining a larger share of ownership voting rights at the resorts which were "sold out" prior to the DC being implemented. In the early days of the DC some people thought (hoped?) that Weeks at the older/sold-out resorts would always be outside of the DC and thus protected from MVW gaining that foothold, but as we've learned it will continue to be a major concern for as long as Trust conveyances are ongoing, i.e. as long as MVW is selling the DC Points product. Eventually MVW could be a majority voting block at every resort, depending on how many sold Weeks are reacquired rather than passed down to heirs.

 

[GreenTea]

This is always what I thought as ell, so thank you all for confirming. I had a couple taken via ROFR. I assumed they were going into the Trust as points.

 

[dioxide45]

The FB poster is definitely wrong. There are plenty of conveyances to the trust that are from required week. I would estimate that half of the weeks in the trust are re-conveyed weeks. These are weeks that they have got back from ROFR, buybacks, MORI foreclosures and weeks that they have bought back from the HOAs due to MF foreclosure.

This does however remind me of a question that was brought up at the Grande Vista annual meeting. An owner didn't think that weeks taken back through ROFR should be allowed to be conveyed to the trust. They didn't think Marriott should be able to add those weeks to the trust. It was explained that once Marriott takes ownership of the week, they have the right to do with it as they please, and adding it to the trust is what they are doing with those weeks. The only exceptions would be weeks that can't be added to the trust, ie Custom House, and international properties.

 

[JIMinNC]

The FB poster is definitely wrong.

Wow! Imagine that. False information being spread on Facebook...

 

[dioxide45]

Wow! Imagine that. False information being spread on Facebook...

Likely the reason I don't even have an account.

 

[Fasttr]

Likely the reason I don't even have an account.

That makes 2 of us.

 

[GreenTea]

The FB group *NEEDS* posters like all of you.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm on FB and a member of a couple Marriott groups related to my resorts, but mostly I use it because it's the easiest way for all of us in our huge family to keep in touch and make plans. When it comes to Marriott stuff I find that a lot of FB people are looking for easy answers that jibe with what they want to hear, rather than answers based on reality. I find FB good for Marriott fluff but TUG is much better for the nuts and bolts discussions about timeshare ownership, especially when the reality is unpleasant.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I think we all agree that weeks picked up from ROFR, buybacks or foreclosure can be conveyed to the trust. Does anyone have any knowledge that this is actually going on and if so what frequency?

As far as FB and the use of groups, I believe it is good way to get people together with common interests. It is not necessarily a source of knowledge on Marriotts and should not be viewed or used this way. I started groups for HHI, the Monarch and Grand Château. I belong to other Marriott FB groups. I am not shy at pointing out the expertise on Tug and providing the link.

 

[GreenTea]

Someone is adamant weeks can not be put into trust. Really adamant.

 

[StevenTing]

Someone is adamant weeks can not be put into trust. Really adamant.

What is the name of the group? I'm on FB and I would be glad to set them straight.

 

[GreenTea]

Marriott vacation club international - Owners network

 

[SueDonJ]

Someone is adamant weeks can not be put into trust. Really adamant.

I think we all agree that weeks picked up from ROFR, buybacks or foreclosure can be conveyed to the trust. Does anyone have any knowledge that this is actually going on and if so what frequency? ...

Check out the link to Dioxide's Trust conveyances thread that I linked in Post #3 above, and use the link in his first post to do a search on the Orange County, FL Comptroller's website. As an example I just did a blanket search for the last six months or so and one of the many hits is Document #20160362860 detailing 156 "reacquired" Weeks at Barony Beach Club that were conveyed to the Trust on 7/14/16. (I'm not sure if the link will work but search that doc number if not.) There are plenty more docs to review that include more conveyances as well as ROFR takebacks, buybacks, foreclosures, etc. I'm sure if anyone has the time or desire they'll be able to trace the origin of every conveyed Week. IMO this proves that conveyances are ongoing and that some of them are reacquired by Marriott through ROFR.

 

[dioxide45]

Someone is adamant weeks can not be put into trust. Really adamant.

I guess I would want to know their rational or understanding behind their point of view. Do they have some kind of inside knowledge? Do they work for Marriott? If not, then what is it? If they are just guessing or hoping that these weeks can't go to the trust, then they are wrong. We know for a FACT that there are plenty of weeks being conveyed to the trust.

Here is an example: Week 35 unit 1011 from Harbour Lake was conveyed to the trust in instrument 20160362875. If you then do a search for that week and unit number, you find that the week was conveyed to Marriott Ownership Resorts in this deed. It was then conveyed to the trust in this deed.

I guess the source of those weeks could be up for debate. However, they have to come from one of four sources; Marriott direct buybacks, ROFR, HOA foreclosure that get sold to Marriott or MORI foreclosure. I would find it doubtful that Marriott is able to convey as many weeks as they are currently conveying without taking them through ROFR. There would be no way to determine the difference between the first and second sources, they would look the same in public record. If I looked long enough, I could probably find a foreclosure sale.

 

[SueDonJ]

Marriott vacation club international - Owners network

I sent a request, wouldn't mind giving a plug for the DC Points FAQ and all the rest of the good info that TUG offers.

 

[dioxide45]

So did the FB user come around?

 

[SueDonJ]

I just got accepted to the group yesterday and I hope they're not insulted by this but there's a whole lot of wrong floating around in there, too much to comprehend without bonking my head on the desk. Remember the early days of the DC on TUG when it was impossible to process all the speculation so some of it wasn't ever corrected? It's still like that over there with Trust conveyances, buckets of inventory, what "enrollment" means and which Weeks are eligible, etc. And Facebook isn't really conducive to dealing with issues in depth ...

I think this one point about conveyances might have gotten through after somebody left a link to your thread - last I saw s/he was planning "another phone call" to somebody at Marriott. I also saw that somebody dropped a link to the Points FAQ here but it didn't seem to gain any attention.

 

[StevenTing]

I got accepted there as well. I was amused at what I was reading.


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[GreenTea]

Like I said, that groups NEEDS you all.

 

[suzannesimon]

I follow all the MVC FB pages and there is a lot of ignorance there. It can be pretty frustrating. I always refer them to TUG.

 

[MALC9990]

I'm on FB and a member of a couple Marriott groups related to my resorts, but mostly I use it because it's the easiest way for all of us in our huge family to keep in touch and make plans. When it comes to Marriott stuff I find that a lot of FB people are looking for easy answers that jibe with what they want to hear, rather than answers based on reality. I find FB good for Marriott fluff but TUG is much better for the nuts and bolts discussions about timeshare ownership, especially when the reality is unpleasant.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Aside from the obvious already stated, Marriott does not sell any weeks, so I am not sure what else they could do with a week that they ROFR. The weeks that Marriott might appear to be selling through the resale department are other owner weeks that they broker. You are never going to find a current or recent deed where Marriott is the grantor and the buyer is the grantee. Someone find one and prove me wrong.