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A & W Burger Failure

joestein

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
2,726
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Location
Marlboro, New Jersey
I read a posting on Facebook that said that A & W 1/3 lb burger tried and failed to take on the 1/4 pounder from McDonalds - by selling them at the same price back in the day. They were trying the value angle. Bigger burger same price. Huge failure. A study was done afterwards to determine why it was such a failure. It turns out that many people thought 1/3 lb was smaller than 1/4 lb. Apparently, fractions are beyond many. The post was trying to show how stupid people are so nobody should be surprised by what is posted online.

Why am I not surprised.
 
This is just sad and scary!! I'll ask for a pint glass for beverages and many have no clue
I read a posting on Facebook that said that A & W 1/3 lb burger tried and failed to take on the 1/4 pounder from McDonalds - by selling them at the same price back in the day. They were trying the value angle. Bigger burger same price. Huge failure. A study was done afterwards to determine why it was such a failure. It turns out that many people thought 1/3 lb was smaller than 1/4 lb. Apparently, fractions are beyond many. The post was trying to show how stupid people are so nobody should be surprised by what is posted online.

Why am I not surprised.
 
I read a posting on Facebook that said that A & W 1/3 lb burger tried and failed to take on the 1/4 pounder from McDonalds - by selling them at the same price back in the day. They were trying the value angle. Bigger burger same price. Huge failure. A study was done afterwards to determine why it was such a failure. It turns out that many people thought 1/3 lb was smaller than 1/4 lb. Apparently, fractions are beyond many. The post was trying to show how stupid people are so nobody should be surprised by what is posted online.

Why am I not surprised.
Perhaps many people think that increasing tax rates will result in lower taxes so they vote for the increase.
 
Fractions are a difficult thing for many a person. I personally don't get it.
 
Does the school system of today teaches basic math & fraction in the classroom?
 
This is famous marketing failure, it happened back in the 1980s.

There are hardly any A&W around me, and they certainly don't advertise much, so i don't think the fraction confusion keep me from buying..
 
Does the school system of today teaches basic math & fraction in the classroom?
I believe they do. I just asked my kids who go to community college. Both of them immediately knew they were "one third" and "one quarter".

Danielle (who I think is the smarter of the two) said "the smaller the denominator the larger the fraction when the numerator is the same". She also said that it is higher percentage (as in 1 out of 3 vs 1 out of 4) - not a way I would have thought about it. Pretty impressive that she knew numerator/denominator - I always have trouble remembering which is on top and which is on bottom.

Lizzy thought about if for 10 seconds and then said 1/3. I asked why a delay and she said she was putting the fractions into context.

So - they both know the answers, but very different methodologies. They both went to the same schools and had many of the same teachers. They are both in the same community college.

Anyway... Danielle just came into my office and told me that if I need any more help with math, I can just ask her.
 
This is famous marketing failure, it happened back in the 1980s.

There are hardly any A&W around me, and they certainly don't advertise much, so i don't think the fraction confusion keep me from buying..

I never saw one growing up in NY, but in NJ there was one near cherry hill (or a town near it) that we would pass on the way to the waterfront in Camden - where we would take the kids when they were younger. Great aquarium and small botanical garden, plus Battleship NJ.

I think we stopped there once or twice and just got root beer in frosted mugs.
 
I read a posting on Facebook that said that A & W 1/3 lb burger tried and failed to take on the 1/4 pounder from McDonalds - by selling them at the same price back in the day. They were trying the value angle. Bigger burger same price. Huge failure. A study was done afterwards to determine why it was such a failure. It turns out that many people thought 1/3 lb was smaller than 1/4 lb. Apparently, fractions are beyond many. The post was trying to show how stupid people are so nobody should be surprised by what is posted online.

Why am I not surprised.
Well a 3 is smaller than a 4.
 
I guess this just goes to show, people were stupid in the 80s too - it's not actually a new / younger generations / failing schools / whatever "things used to be better". Now, what I'd probably try and do would have been to just show "the other guys" burgers as smaller. Numbers and math are asking for a minimum competence level, and that's bad if you want to sell stuff to everyone.
 
I guess this just goes to show, people were stupid in the 80s too - it's not actually a new / younger generations / failing schools / whatever "things used to be better". Now, what I'd probably try and do would have been to just show "the other guys" burgers as smaller. Numbers and math are asking for a minimum competence level, and that's bad if you want to sell stuff to everyone.

I don't know. My brother and I talk about this. I am for uncensored posting on X (FKA Twitter). I believe that if someone has horrendous opinions or views, better to have it out in the open. When you censor things, it just creates conspiracy theories. I think that I would rather have someone post their hateful views, then we know they are a racist/fascist/whatever. Which is the way we have always done it in the past.

The KKK marched in NY and were defended by the civil liberties union. They didnt like them, but they defended freedom of speech.

My brother believes that people used to be able to realize that speech is hateful. Today, he feels they don't have that ability anymore. and are too stupid to do so. People read something on the internet and that they just take it for the truth without any thought on the matter.

Joe
 
Does the school system of today teaches basic math & fraction in the classroom?
Our local school system had only 28% of high school students pass math competency tests. They also are also in the top 10% for funding per student so there is no correlation between spending and performance.
 
Our local school system had only 28% of high school students pass math competency tests. They also are also in the top 10% for funding per student so there is no correlation between spending and performance.
There is absolutely a correlation, an inverse correlation.

I have found that the poorest performing towns/cities spend the most per student on education. My township which has excellent schools is within the 10% lowest spend per student. While cities/towns like Camden or Asbury Park spend a ton.

My township spends between 9-10K per student per year - except for the early learning center that spends $16K (nursery and kindergarten). Camden which is the worst school system in the state spends $18K per student per year. Yet... the state constantly cuts our school aid and provides unlimited aid to Camden. Which is why our RE taxes are so high.
 
We have a bunch of these near our house. Probably four within a five-mile radius.
 
I don't know. My brother and I talk about this. I am for uncensored posting on X (FKA Twitter). I believe that if someone has horrendous opinions or views, better to have it out in the open. When you censor things, it just creates conspiracy theories. I think that I would rather have someone post their hateful views, then we know they are a racist/fascist/whatever. Which is the way we have always done it in the past.

The KKK marched in NY and were defended by the civil liberties union. They didnt like them, but they defended freedom of speech.

My brother believes that people used to be able to realize that speech is hateful. Today, he feels they don't have that ability anymore. and are too stupid to do so. People read something on the internet and that they just take it for the truth without any thought on the matter.

Joe
I'm going to say that I don't think people are actually more stupid. It just hasn't been long enough for that to be the case. I also think in reality we're more educated now in terms of people with degrees across the spectrum, but that there's also a broader spectrum of degrees than there used to be. I just think we've got the availability heuristic bias - the Internet got us in communication with WAY more people than we ever had in the 80s, and the laws of large numbers mean we're exposed to way more of the extremes than we'd expect - mostly due to not being great at intuiting statistics.

That said, I also used to be a free speech absolutist, but have changed my views. The reason is that back in the 80s, if you were spouting off hateful things, well, you were likely also aware if it was pretty far outside the overton window. Not to say there weren't large pockets of racism, sexism, bigotry of all types. However, if you're spouting conspiracy theories, you were likely *actually* in a public place, and most likely the random other people at the bar only humored you for so long. Or the local masons club or legion or whatever. You had to work to get into your own specific bubble, and it often meant physically moving. Otherwise you got pretty immediate pushback.

If you were on TV or something reaching the nation, well you were probably on the big 3, and you'd also see the other side and maybe an entire panel on many issues. You couldn't actually effectively filter out opposing views if you wanted to watch TV like a normal person.

Today, online, you're in a filter bubble that you don't even know you're in (unless you take some steps to try and get outside it, and we already talked about people expending efforts). Whatever gets you engaged is given to you again and again. It's entirely possible to just *never see* any opposing view, but more insidious is you might only see the strawman version of opposing views. On this sort of forum, if you make a rather out there claim, well, you're going to see the people who agree with you, but also anyone who disagrees with you. On X, the secret algorithm decides what you see. Same with Google, Youtube, Facebook, and on and on. They also tend to try and promote incrementally more extreme content to keep you engaged, because you always need just that little more to get the same dopamine hit from consuming the content.

People also claim X (well, it was twitter I guess back then) censorship not when something is removed, but when they decline to promote it, or the label it with something that is kind of like a "this is not something twitter feels is part of our community standards" sort of labels. Or even "this is a government agency saying this". I don't know the answer, but I do know that there is behavior most people don't want in their communities, and like it or not, X is not a public space but a commercial board - and they don't have to provide a service to anyone they don't want to. Even in public spaces you can't just call for violence or harass other people, and I feel like that was a lot of what was blocked on twitter. I don't know if you frequent 4chan or less restricted places than twitter, but if you don't - twitter only was less {insert variable here} than that because of their "censorship".
 
I'm going to say that I don't think people are actually more stupid. It just hasn't been long enough for that to be the case. I also think in reality we're more educated now in terms of people with degrees across the spectrum, but that there's also a broader spectrum of degrees than there used to be. I just think we've got the availability heuristic bias - the Internet got us in communication with WAY more people than we ever had in the 80s, and the laws of large numbers mean we're exposed to way more of the extremes than we'd expect - mostly due to not being great at intuiting statistics.

That said, I also used to be a free speech absolutist, but have changed my views. The reason is that back in the 80s, if you were spouting off hateful things, well, you were likely also aware if it was pretty far outside the overton window. Not to say there weren't large pockets of racism, sexism, bigotry of all types. However, if you're spouting conspiracy theories, you were likely *actually* in a public place, and most likely the random other people at the bar only humored you for so long. Or the local masons club or legion or whatever. You had to work to get into your own specific bubble, and it often meant physically moving. Otherwise you got pretty immediate pushback.

If you were on TV or something reaching the nation, well you were probably on the big 3, and you'd also see the other side and maybe an entire panel on many issues. You couldn't actually effectively filter out opposing views if you wanted to watch TV like a normal person.

Today, online, you're in a filter bubble that you don't even know you're in (unless you take some steps to try and get outside it, and we already talked about people expending efforts). Whatever gets you engaged is given to you again and again. It's entirely possible to just *never see* any opposing view, but more insidious is you might only see the strawman version of opposing views. On this sort of forum, if you make a rather out there claim, well, you're going to see the people who agree with you, but also anyone who disagrees with you. On X, the secret algorithm decides what you see. Same with Google, Youtube, Facebook, and on and on. They also tend to try and promote incrementally more extreme content to keep you engaged, because you always need just that little more to get the same dopamine hit from consuming the content.

People also claim X (well, it was twitter I guess back then) censorship not when something is removed, but when they decline to promote it, or the label it with something that is kind of like a "this is not something twitter feels is part of our community standards" sort of labels. Or even "this is a government agency saying this". I don't know the answer, but I do know that there is behavior most people don't want in their communities, and like it or not, X is not a public space but a commercial board - and they don't have to provide a service to anyone they don't want to. Even in public spaces you can't just call for violence or harass other people, and I feel like that was a lot of what was blocked on twitter. I don't know if you frequent 4chan or less restricted places than twitter, but if you don't - twitter only was less {insert variable here} than that because of their "censorship".
I dont even frequent twitter, much less 4chan or similar places. Really the only time I go to twitter or instagram is when I read an article and it talks about a posting or pic that is not in the article and I want to see it.

Sometimes I used twitter to follow some food trucks to see where they would be that day, but that was years ago - pre-covid.
 
So, I work in the world of mortgage interest rates and selling them. Always was taught that some rates should be quoted as a fraction.
5 and 7/8ths for alot of people is less than 5.875%
5 and 1 quarter for a lot of people is less than 5.25%
 
Calculators destroyed the average person’s incentive to learn math beyond the basics
People can not make change in their head
Hand somebody $5.01 for a $4.76 bill tell them you want a quarter back
Generally gets me a puzzled look
Fractions are seldom used anymore
Especially in the public arena
 
Trying to convince people to buy a burger, any type of burger takes more than marketing. When I was growing up in the 50’s-60’s, A&W was known as a hot dog and root beer drive in where you would speak into the small speakers next to your car and a car hop would bring the order out to you. if You were lucky there would be a car of girls drive in and park next to you! Thats when the real fun would start. I’m talking about small town America and a right of passage. i don’t even think they had burgers at A&W back then. That would be like Arby’s trying to market BLT’s Or McDonalds trying to sell Taco’s. Just wouldn’t work out IMO.
 
It's actually easier (fewer syllables) to say Allen & Wright than it is to say A & W.

Just like Jimmy Palmer's character (the coroner) on NCIS once said, "It's easier to say gunshot wound than it is to say GSW."
 
Our local school system had only 28% of high school students pass math competency tests. They also are also in the top 10% for funding per student so there is no correlation between spending and performance.
Does Baltimore dream of half those numbers.
 
I have read that burger story in many places but have never seen and documentation offered. I want to believe that at least half of us understand fifth-grade fractions.

Most of us look at a gas gauge daily, where 1/4 is closer to E than is 1/2.

Can anyone find verification?
 
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I have read that burger story in many places but have never seen and documentation offered. I want to believe that at least half of us understand fifth-grade fractions.

Most of us look at a gas gauge daily, where 1/4 is closer to E than is 1/2.

Can anyone find verification?
yes.. if you go to the A & W website, it has the story on there.

 
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