A outsiders view (from on high?)

[DeniseM]

Gmonsterson - In case you missed it, there is a II FAQ at the top of the forum. It's a lot of info. - I know. Read through it a couple of times and then let us know what questions you still have.

 

[mstoyanov]

Gmonsterson,

Forgive me about being blunt but buying that timeshare from Starwood was financial mistake and spending another $8000 for other half of EOY will be additional financial mistake - DON'T MAKE IT!
Whoever told you that you can rent Gold week in WLR for profit is simply lying to you - it will be difficult to even cover your MFs with such rental.
Gold season in WLR are off season weeks in an area that has more supply than demand. In fact I personally will not accept resale Gold week in WLR even if given for free. It is true that buying from Starwood gives you Staroptions but you can buy mandatory resort with annual 81,000 Staroptions cheaper (and with less MFs) .
Platinum season weeks in WLR do have value even resale but this is not true for Gold weeks.
The reason why Gold season is worthless is that that season is extremely easy to exchange into not only with staroptions (I will never bother wasting staroptions for gold week in WLR) but trough II with much less expensive trader.

First of all, I'd like to thank my lucky stars for finding TUG when I did...not soon enough but better late than never.
Also, the strategies here, especially buying resale and getting the options re-instated are some of the best travel advice/tactics I have come across.

Now, I'd like to say that although many are "telling it like it is" or giving a poster good advice, I think that there has got to be a situation where buying something from a developer somewhere is not the end of the world. It's going to be pretty tough for people to hear what a terrible busines decision they made when purchasing something as emotional as a timeshare. You will never convince some people otherwise so rather than argue over and over about how mr. xyz values his starpoints, leave it alone. I found this forum yesterday and it can be pretty intimidating wrtiting your purchase and getting 50 negative replies.

All that said, regardless of how people express their opinions, this forum will save a lot of people a lot of $ and problems down the road.

So without further adieu, I have a few questions for the experts on here pertaining how to make the most out of my situation.

30 days ago I bought at Westin Lagunamar (voluntary, now I know - but do you think anyone told me that!)
$15,000 for 81,000 options EOY (basically 1 week in Gold Plus season in a 2 bdrm LO). (i dont think the week or size matter in svn, do they? isnt it all about the options?) with the right to buy the other year for $8,000 within 365 days
Anyway for me it made sense...at the time. For 81k options, i can;
1. stay in cancun for 1 wk in January (37k) in a studio and then TRY for a few 3 night stays in other places across the US.
2. we can do one week in the 2 bdrm with 6 ppl, or,
3. do Cancun for a week in Jan and a week in Nov

the MF's are $1,400 and all 3 of those options are worth more than that to me. I can also rent Cancun 1 week which would cover MF's if not more and still have a week to myself.

So to me it made sense....but now I know even though it made sense to me at the time, there was a more cost effective way of going about this.

My question is since I have that option to buy the other year by Jan. 2013, do I have any chance at picking up some staroptions on the cheap and having them reinstated as a condition of me picking up the other side of my deal for $8,000. Or do I not pick up the option and pick up the other EOY from a mandatory resort?

Your help is appreciated and most welcome!

ps. there is an 81,000 option deed at WKV on E-bay now for $100...is that even possible? Since it's mandatory, if it goes for $100, that means I paid $14,900 too much for the same 81,000 options I got a Lagunamar, correct? yikes.

 

[Gmonsterson]

MSTOYANOV, I know, I wont buy the other half!

But about this rental stuff I think you guys are wrong. If you haven't been to Lagunamar, it's an almost brand new 5 star hotel. It has nothing to do with timeshare supply and demand. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians and Americans go to Cancun in the Winter and pay "hotel" prices to stay in hotels. For us Canadians, January is very high season. WLM Gold season includes January.
So timeshare or not, a 5 star hotel with kitchenette runs you more than $1400 per week ($200) night. That's a fact. Not an opinion. On craigslist, ebay etc, you could get $1400 for the studio side of the 2BR alone. I'm guessing the 2br LO for a family in January could fetch about $2200-$2500. If it was any less, all inclusives wouldn't exist as everyone would pick up a cheap timeshare (5 star hotel) and pay for their own food.
The Westin Cancun (3star) is $100 a night at best on Hotwire!

 

[bizaro86]

But about this rental stuff I think you guys are wrong. If you haven't been to Lagunamar, it's an almost brand new 5 star hotel. It has nothing to do with timeshare supply and demand. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians and Americans go to Cancun in the Winter and pay "hotel" prices to stay in hotels. For us Canadians, January is very high season. WLM Gold season includes January.
So timeshare or not, a 5 star hotel with kitchenette runs you more than $1400 per week ($200) night. That's a fact. Not an opinion. On craigslist, ebay etc, you could get $1400 for the studio side of the 2BR alone. I'm guessing the 2br LO for a family in January could fetch about $2200-$2500. If it was any less, all inclusives wouldn't exist as everyone would pick up a cheap timeshare (5 star hotel) and pay for their own food.
The Westin Cancun (3star) is $100 a night at best on Hotwire!

I don't think you're discounting the price from what a hotel gets enough. Most people aren't looking at craigslist/kijiji for premium accomodations, they're looking for a good deal. As an example, there is currently a studio listed on redweek.com for march 10-17 for $795/week, and I bet you could negotiate that down further.

Now, you may be able to do better renting locally to people you know (who trust you) and they'd be getting good value. But it's not as easy as the salesman makes it seem.

You are of course completely correct that lagunamar is great. I've been there a couple of times and I love it. But just because it's great doesn't make it easy to rent.

 

[bizaro86]

But for a lot less MF's than if you bought them separately!

I know some starwood resorts have the fees for the halves of the lockoff adding up to more than the fees for the 2 bedroom (SDO is like that), but I don't think Lagunamar is. This post http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1216995&postcount=78 would be supporting evidence.

 

[Gmonsterson]

I don't think you're discounting the price from what a hotel gets enough. Most people aren't looking at craigslist/kijiji for premium accomodations, they're looking for a good deal. As an example, there is currently a studio listed on redweek.com for march 10-17 for $795/week, and I bet you could negotiate that down further.

Now, you may be able to do better renting locally to people you know (who trust you) and they'd be getting good value. But it's not as easy as the salesman makes it seem.

You are of course completely correct that lagunamar is great. I've been there a couple of times and I love it. But just because it's great doesn't make it easy to rent.

That's true, its the audience you need to appeal to. It's def good value at $1400 for the studio at lagunamar for someone in Toronto who is about to pay $3000 for a comparable holiday for 2...but you have to find those ppl at the right time...could be time consuming. Redweek seems to be a place where the hounds go to feast on poor timesharers who can't use their week! Better to use that as a last resort. If you can couple that deal with the current $200 all in price of a flight from YYZ to CUN you're having a pretty sweet holiday for $1,200.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Renting has many challenges and pitfalls - I would take the advice of Tuggers over a TS salesperson... always, and for everything

Do not turn your good money into (more) bad money. As with many (most) of us - we learn how to get the best value or make the most of the situation - rarely, if ever, does this involve buying additional VOIs from SVO.

There are few (if any) better places to list a rental than RedWeek. I have had good success with renting our WKVs (1Bd Plat-Prem), and OF studio at WKORV (to help cover MFs) - for years - but no luck (so far) trying to rent our WSJ - which in my opinion should have excellent demand as it is a great villa, resort amd StJ is paradise. You must be willing to spend the time/effort in renting and be able to offer a deal that far outweighs SVO/SPG pricing.

 

[Gmonsterson]

Renting aside for now..i only have 81k SO and I plan to use every last one of them!

The WKV 2BR EOY Gold season 81K SO just went for $1350 on Ebay. Add $600 closing fees and for $2,000 that sounds like a decent deal. MF's were $800.

I guess though if the same 81k EY 1bdrm Plats go for $6,000 then EOY would be about $3,000 but then maybe theres a premium for the lower MF's of a 1 Bdrm so maybe $2k is a pretty standard deal? Or, maybe there's a premium for the flexibility of a 2 Bdrm LO....?

Either way I paid $15K for the same thing, but with 80,000 starpoints so if I can count those as a couple of bucks im still out 5 digits but I can live with it. Now I want to take advantage of the strategies here to lower my $ per StarOption cost.

StarOption Cost Averaging. Should be listed in Investopedia.

 

[mstoyanov]

Gmonsterson,

I do have actual experience renting WLR and Royal resorts in Cancun so take my advice seriously - it has EVERYTHING to do with supply/demand.
You can only dream of even getting close of what Starwood or other hotel chains gets for these rooms. And while winter is in high demand in Cancun the only week worth even trying to rent for decent amount of money from Gold season is week 1 and that is only if it includes Jan 1st - Jan 5th.

Platinum weeks do rent above MFs without problem but this is the whole reason why Platinum weeks still have values at resale.

Also WLR is often available for cash and points for quite a bargain directly from SPG - I just book prime spring break stay there.

MSTOYANOV, I know, I wont buy the other half!

But about this rental stuff I think you guys are wrong. If you haven't been to Lagunamar, it's an almost brand new 5 star hotel. It has nothing to do with timeshare supply and demand. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians and Americans go to Cancun in the Winter and pay "hotel" prices to stay in hotels. For us Canadians, January is very high season. WLM Gold season includes January.
So timeshare or not, a 5 star hotel with kitchenette runs you more than $1400 per week ($200) night. That's a fact. Not an opinion. On craigslist, ebay etc, you could get $1400 for the studio side of the 2BR alone. I'm guessing the 2br LO for a family in January could fetch about $2200-$2500. If it was any less, all inclusives wouldn't exist as everyone would pick up a cheap timeshare (5 star hotel) and pay for their own food.
The Westin Cancun (3star) is $100 a night at best on Hotwire!

 

[DavidnRobin]

Renting aside for now..i only have 81k SO and I plan to use every last one of them!

The WKV 2BR EOY Gold season 81K SO just went for $1350 on Ebay. Add $600 closing fees and for $2,000 that sounds like a decent deal. MF's were $800.

I guess though if the same 81k EY 1bdrm Plats go for $6,000 then EOY would be about $3,000 but then maybe theres a premium for the lower MF's of a 1 Bdrm so maybe $2k is a pretty standard deal? Or, maybe there's a premium for the flexibility of a 2 Bdrm LO....?

Either way I paid $15K for the same thing, but with 80,000 starpoints so if I can count those as a couple of bucks im still out 5 digits but I can live with it. Now I want to take advantage of the strategies here to lower my $ per StarOption cost.

StarOption Cost Averaging. Should be listed in Investopedia.

Those MFs are due annually for an EOY.

If you are purely looking at $/SO - you are not viewing the entire picture and not considering all the variables - much has been written about this.

as a reference point - I rent my WKVs (1Bd Plat-Prem) for ~$900 over the MFs (for the last 4 years) - I reserve during Spring Training. Good luck trying to get the same value from a Gold WKV.

 

[DeniseM]

Gmonsterson - You are still wanting to believe what the sale person told you. Let me be very frank - the TS sale people in Mexico have the worst reputations in the industry - they will blatantly lie to make a sale. You need to forget most of what they told you.

Private owners cannot compete with the hotel industry, so first you will have to discount your week 50% or more, and then you will have a difficult time finding a renter, because Mexico is overbuilt with TS's and travel to Mexico is depressed. Remember, that everyone else who bought in Mexico heard the same BS story about making big profits from renting, and they are all trying to rent their TS's too. There is FAR more supply than demand in Mexico for private TS rentals - the market is glutted. Right here in the TUG Marketplace there are Mexico rentals for $1.

I have a lot of experience with renting, and I would never buy a timeshare in Mexico to rent. It is a losing proposition.

 

[pathways25]

Right here in the TUG Marketplace there are Mexico rentals for $1.

Wow! What is the point of renting for a dollar? Wouldn't you be better off just letting the week go unused? By renting, you'd create an exposure for yourself if the renter decided to trash the place and skip out...

 

[DeniseM]

Wow! What is the point of renting for a dollar? Wouldn't you be better off just letting the week go unused? By renting, you'd create an exposure for yourself if the renter decided to trash the place and skip out...

If the owner gets a renter into the resort, the renter has to pay a high all-inclusive fee to the resort, and somehow that covers the owner's MF for the year. That's close, anyway. We had to rein some people in on this, because they were advertising the rental for $1, without disclosing the mandatory AI fee, on the Last Minute Rentals Forum.

There are 50 Mexico rentals in the TUG Marketplace right now for 1¢ - $500.
http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=

 

[J&JFamily]

Please listen to what the experienced folks on this board are telling you! I am relatively new and inexperienced compared to many here, however, I can tell you with 99% certainty that what you have been told (and believe) will happen with regards to renting your unit you will not happen. You could perhaps do it once (rent it for your estimated price), but you could not do it consistently.

As an example, I just went online and right on the SPG website one can rent a studio unit in the middle of summer for less than $1,000 ($950). Or one can get a studio unit for $420 plus 28,000 starpoints (not staroptions - but points used in the SPG system).

 

[Ken555]

I suggest you check getaway prices and availability for WLR at II before believing what sales told you...

 

[Gmonsterson]

Those MFs are due annually for an EOY.

If you are purely looking at $/SO - you are not viewing the entire picture and not considering all the variables - much has been written about this.

as a reference point - I rent my WKVs (1Bd Plat-Prem) for ~$900 over the MFs (for the last 4 years) - I reserve during Spring Training. Good luck trying to get the same value from a Gold WKV.

What if you weren't going to rent it out....was that a good deal to buy and use?

 

[Gmonsterson]

Please listen to what the experienced folks on this board are telling you! I am relatively new and inexperienced compared to many here, however, I can tell you with 99% certainty that what you have been told (and believe) will happen with regards to renting your unit you will not happen. You could perhaps do it once (rent it for your estimated price), but you could not do it consistently.

As an example, I just went online and right on the SPG website one can rent a studio unit in the middle of summer for less than $1,000 ($950). Or one can get a studio unit for $420 plus 28,000 starpoints (not staroptions - but points used in the SPG system).

I tried to get off the renting topic....I don't plan on renting it....i just thought due to the price of hotels on the strip, the room would be worth something. The sales guy never even talked about renting.

Now how about those Republican candidates!

 

[DavidnRobin]

Best of luck...