44k Westin Flex Options family of 4 - thoughts on where to go from here

[BryGuy]

We own 44k Westin Flex options currently. We really like the flex concept, but 44k just isn’t enough points Because we need peak weeks with kids school schedule. I’m looking to buy at least another 44k on resale - there are deals out there for $0.10-$0.15 an option (I paid $0.33 direct but got a one time 88k bonus and 100k Marriott points with the purchase.). Should I reconsider all of this and go in an entirely different direction? Are there pitfalls to avoid here? I read on one post that when the Westin Flex options transfer to me in a resale closing they lose their StarOptions benefit - I need that explained to me in stupid terms; don’t understand. TIA

 

[DeniseM]

There are only a handful of resorts that retain their Staroptions when purchased on the resale market - none of the Flex resorts do. There is no good reason to buy Flex again - I would buy resale at a resort where the Staroptions transfer with a resale:

a. If a resort is Staroption "Mandatory," it means that when the week is sold to a new owner (resale) the Staroption value of the week transfers to the new owner, and the new owner has the right to exchange his timeshare in the Starwood Vacation Network. These resorts are Staroption Mandatory:

* Harborside at Atlantis
* Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
* Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
* Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
* Westin Kierland Villas

 

[Bill4728]

There are only a handful of resorts that retain their Staroptions when purchased on the resale market - none of the Flex resorts do. There is no good reason to buy Flex again - I would buy resale at a resort where the Staroptions transfer with a resale:

GREAT ADVICE!!

Buy a resale at a mandatory resort.

 

[BryGuy]

There are only a handful of resorts that retain their Staroptions when purchased on the resale market - none of the Flex resorts do. There is no good reason to buy Flex again - I would buy resale at a resort where the Staroptions transfer with a resale:

Thanks. If I understand what you are saying, the points I purchase resale would only be usable at Mission Hills, Desert Willows, Princeville, Riverfront Mountains, and Nanea Home resorts? what about resorts you didn’t list outside of my home resorts (8 mos or less booking) like Vistana Beach Club for example?

 

[DeniseM]

If you buy Flex on the resale market you can only book the home resorts in your Flex group.

If you buy a mandatory resort on the resale market, you can use the Staroptions at all Vistana/Sheraton/Westin resorts.

The resorts I listed are not the resorts you can book. They are the resorts you can buy resale (saving a ton of money) and receive Staroptions that you can use at all Vistana resorts.

 

[tschwa2]

Thanks. If I understand what you are saying, the points I purchase resale would only be usable at Mission Hills, Desert Willows, Princeville, Riverfront Mountains, and Nanea Home resorts? what about resorts you didn’t list outside of my home resorts (8 mos or less booking) like Vistana Beach Club for example?

You would not be able to book those with resale flex options. You would be able to book those at 8 months if you purchase at a resale mandatory resort.

 

[BryGuy]

If you buy Flex on the resale market you can only book the home resorts in your Flex group.

If you buy a mandatory resort on the resale market, you can use the Staroptions at all Vistana/Sheraton/Westin resorts.

The resorts I listed are not the resorts you can book. They are the resorts you can buy resale (saving a ton of money) and receive Staroptions that you can use at all Vistana resorts.

Would I at least be able to use the resale Flex points 12 months out, and at all 8 of my Included resorts?

 

[vacationtime1]

Would I at least be able to use the resale Flex points 12 months out, and at all 8 of my Included resorts?

Yes, but those are the only resorts at which you can use them (apart from trading through Interval).

 

[BryGuy]

Yes, but those are the only resorts at which you can use them (apart from trading through Interval).

thanks Robert, et al! I still like the flexibility even with just the 8 resorts - being able to get 4 months head start on most people at 4 resorts in HI, a nice place in AZ, CA and Co gives us what we are looking for as a family right now. It still feels like this is a good option for us. Most of these resorts Get booked up during peak weeks at 8 months out - the StarOptions just are not doing it for me. I have a decent amount of StarOptions and they are harder to use - I need more home options and buying more Flex points resale seems to definitely be the more economical way to go.

 

[byeloe]

thanks Robert, et al! I still like the flexibility even with just the 8 resorts - being able to get 4 months head start on most people at 4 resorts in HI, a nice place in AZ, CA and Co gives us what we are looking for as a family right now. It still feels like this is a good option for us. Most of these resorts Get booked up during peak weeks at 8 months out - the StarOptions just are not doing it for me. I have a decent amount of StarOptions and they are harder to use - I need more home options and buying more Flex points resale seems to definitely be the more economical way to go.

You are also missing the fact that flex inventory comes from a different "bucket". Your resale purchase will only see what is in the flex bucket no matter when you search. While your developer purchase will see flex bucket inventory from 12 to 8 months and all inventory in the 8 month window.
So it is possible that if you are looking inside 8 months that your developer week will see availability but your resale unit will not

 

[jabberwocky]

Are there particular resorts within WFlex that you particularly are wanting to go to, or do you just want flexibility? Do you need 2BR or are you okay with a 1BR (with kids I assume 2BR)?

WFlex can make sense in some cases, but 44k is too small to be useful, particularly if you are wanting to go to WKORV (N/S), Princeville or Nanea.

 

[DanCali]

I have a decent amount of StarOptions and they are harder to use - I need more home options and buying more Flex points resale seems to definitely be the more economical way to go.

Staroptions are no doubt a gamble. We ended up buying 2 HRA weeks because we couldn't get what we wanted at 8 months out.

But Flex and "Economical" is an oxymoron. Yes, it is relatively cheap on the resale market but the reason for the are the ultra-high maintenance fees. Is it around 2.1 cents in maintenance fees for the 44K Flex product, which is around $925? You can buy Platinum Westin Kierland resale 1BR with 67,000 SOs and maintenance fees of sub-$700 (+VSN fee). Or the larger 1BR with 81,000 SOs with maintenance fees of around $1100.

Ultimately, it's up to you if you want to have more flexibility with just 8 resorts at 8-12 months out or more flexibility at all resorts at 8 months out. If you can narrow it down to 1-2 resorts you are most likely to visit over time, I'd still consider buying 1 BR deeded week there, especially if mandatory (e.g., WKORV/N).

 

[BryGuy]

Are there particular resorts within WFlex that you particularly are wanting to go to, or do you just want flexibility? Do you need 2BR or are you okay with a 1BR (with kids I assume 2BR)?

WFlex can make sense in some cases, but 44k is too small to be useful, particularly if you are wanting to go to WKORV (N/S), Princeville or Nanea.

JW - I agree. I want 125k to get us into a 2BR at one of the 4 HI resorts annually. the only thing is HI is a haul for us - I like the idea of being able to just go to FL or even Cancun if we want to; and of course Harborside is also ideal. IDK! i’m now thinking that the group advice is right the more I think about it.

 

[BryGuy]

Staroptions are no doubt a gamble. We ended up buying 2 HRA weeks because we couldn't get what we wanted at 8 months out.

But Flex and "Economical" is an oxymoron. Yes, it is relatively cheap on the resale market but the reason for the are the ultra-high maintenance fees. Is it around 2.1 cents in maintenance fees for the 44K Flex product, which is around $925? You can buy Platinum Westin Kierland resale 1BR with 67,000 SOs and maintenance fees of sub-$700 (+VSN fee). Or the larger 1BR with 81,000 SOs with maintenance fees of around $1100.

Ultimately, it's up to you if you want to have more flexibility with just 8 resorts at 8-12 months out or more flexibility at all resorts at 8 months out. If you can narrow it down to 1-2 resorts you are most likely to visit over time, I'd still consider buying 1 BR deeded week there, especially if mandatory (e.g., WKORV/N).

I hear you loud and clear. A 2 BR deeded week a little closer to home that we can get to easier probably makes the most sense. HI is far for us. Atlantis would be the ideal spot. I really appreciate everyone’s feedback.

 

[rcv82]

I have some Westin Flex, and other than the high maintenance fees, it works well, including at all of the Hawaii resorts (just not oceanfront). I like the "flex"ibility of any day check-in and not locked to 7 days at 12 month out reservations. The one that I cannot recommend it for is reliable access to Westin Riverfront during ski season, with the exception of early and late season. I personally expect it to become more difficult to use StarOptions for Maui once the integration with MVC goes live given the high amount of DC points those resorts command. If Maui is a top priority, WKORV/WKORVN deeded weeks are perhaps a better alternative. It is relatively easy to use StarOptions to get into WDW/WMH or any of the Sheratons.

 

[jabberwocky]

JW - I agree. I want 125k to get us into a 2BR at one of the 4 HI resorts annually. the only thing is HI is a haul for us - I like the idea of being able to just go to FL or even Cancun if we want to; and of course Harborside is also ideal. IDK! i’m now thinking that the group advice is right the more I think about it.

Given that you already own Flex and want to do Hawaii, perhaps you can look at getting an EOY deed at WKORV-N and then another mandatory EOY at SVV or WKV in the opposite years? We’ve used this strategy and it has worked quite well.

This would give you booking priority in Hawaii at least every second year, you could then do a flex booking to add a couple days at the beginning or end of your trip. If you go this route I would buy an Oceanview or Island view so you could stay in the same unit. You cost per SO would be around $0.019 which is a bit cheaper than a resale Flex which doesn’t have SO.

For the off years, if you got an 81k unit that would get you a good vacation in Florida( if combined with your flex package converted to SO) or several days in AZ or Atlantis (depending on season). Again, it would lower your overall cost per SO substantially.

The downside is that aside from WKORV-N island views, the mandatory resorts aren’t exactly cheap.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Staroptions are no doubt a gamble. We ended up buying 2 HRA weeks because we couldn't get what we wanted at 8 months out.

But Flex and "Economical" is an oxymoron. Yes, it is relatively cheap on the resale market but the reason for the are the ultra-high maintenance fees. Is it around 2.1 cents in maintenance fees for the 44K Flex product, which is around $925? You can buy Platinum Westin Kierland resale 1BR with 67,000 SOs and maintenance fees of sub-$700 (+VSN fee). Or the larger 1BR with 81,000 SOs with maintenance fees of around $1100.

Ultimately, it's up to you if you want to have more flexibility with just 8 resorts at 8-12 months out or more flexibility at all resorts at 8 months out. If you can narrow it down to 1-2 resorts you are most likely to visit over time, I'd still consider buying 1 BR deeded week there, especially if mandatory (e.g., WKORV/N).

There are only 1Bd villas at WKORV (south) and it is not a good value when you compare the MFs between 81K SOs for the 1Bd and 148.1K SOs that you get for a 2Bd LO. Those extra 67.1K SOs come cheap.


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[DavidnRobin]

Do your research before buying resale
Sale HRA (Harborside/Atlantis) - it is often a better SO exchange for a few reasons (e.g. Title cost, MFs, tough to sell…)


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[DanCali]

A 2 BR deeded week a little closer to home that we can get to easier probably makes the most sense. HI is far for us. Atlantis would be the ideal spot...

Do your research before buying resale
Sale HRA (Harborside/Atlantis) - it is often a better SO exchange for a few reasons (e.g. Title cost, MFs, tough to sell…)

If you are looking at HRA the one thing really worth buying there is the dedicated ("Deluxe") 2BR unit, which is the 2BR portion of the 3BR lockoff.

There aren't many of them because I believe they are only located in Phase 2 (buildings 3-6) and the developer had to split a 3BR unit to make a sale. The square footage is about as large as the 1BR Premium which also translates to similar MFs (~$2100 for 2Br Deluxe vs $1900 for the Premium 1BR vs. $3200 for the 2BR lockoff). But it's still a 2BR/2BA and the layout is actually more convenient for a family with kids, without all that extra wasted space that you have in the lockoff and the kids being a long hike away. And it being a 2BR, it can also rent at 2BR prices which means $1500-$2000 over MFs for both Spring break and Summer season (this implies it should have a relatively high resale value as well). Since they eliminated rollaways, anyone with a party of 5+ now needs a 2BR unit, so rental demand for these has actually increased in the last 3-4 years.

The flipside is that whoever owns these is not in a hurry to sell them. Out of 48 HRA resales on RedWeek, just 1 is a 2BR Deluxe and it's for Silver season. If you're patient, it will eventually pop up but expect to pay a price premium which, imo, pays off over time.

Another good alternative is the 3BR lockoff which gives you the aforementioned 2BR Deluxe unit plus a corner studio that has an actual balcony. I think these are totally underpriced (Platinum for dirt cheap on RedWeek - no Gold available as of now) in the resale market because the MFs are like a 2BR lockoff but if you rent out the Studio side you still have the 2BR Deluxe and cover a substantial part of the MFs - you may even come out ahead versus just owning the Deluxe 2BR only, and also pay maybe less overall upfront, but it's a bit more hassle renting it even in years you use it.

You can see all these floorplans on vistana.com

 

[Venter]

I agree with everyone else but would like to present the flipside of the coin.

If you buy a mandatory resort it will not come cheap except if you buy in Orlando but this is not part of Westin Flex home resorts.
If you buy mandatory resorts you will have to wait till 8 months to book your reservation. If you book with your home options you can book at your home resort at 12 months but you will not be guaranteed to get the rest of your booking at 8 months. Unless you get a week within the home option group where you would like to go then you can book that at 12 months and add with your Flex points at 12 months out. The Hawaii weeks and the WKV weeks will not come cheap though.
Remember that according to other members here Westin Flex does not have ocean front and therefore if you buy an ocean front and want to add to it with flex you will again have to wait till 8 months out and hope you get your reservation. However, I have seen one or to postings where people have been able to book ocean front before 8 months. I think just like in Marriott there may be some leeway in the language of the documents for the exchange company to swop weeks for availability but can not say for certain.
Westin Flex will probably not come cheap but you may be lucky.
Resale Westin Flex will be restricted to booking within your home option resort anything from 12 months to 1 day out. You will not get SO which is where the 8 months booking comes in.
You will be able to combine your Westin Flex packages to book any of the home resorts at any time for up to 14 days if available.
If you want to go elsewhere there may be a work around. If anything is available in II you can use your resale points to book that unit and week and add days with your developer points at 8 months if available at a different resort other than your home resorts.

To put it in a nutshell. Mandatory may cost you more upfront and less in maintenance fees. You will be at the mercy of the 8 month booking and work a bit harder to get things done with a little less flexibility.
If you buy Westin Flex you may get it for cheaper but your maintenance fees will be higher. Depending on how many points and at which mandatory resort it may be substantially or only minimally higher. You will have more flexibility within your home resort system being able to book from 12 months to 1 day out. One poster mentioned that there are different buckets which may play a roll but again I think it may be more flexible than we think due to language in the documents.

At the end of the day tou have to decide what is most important for you.

 

[BryGuy]

If you are looking at HRA the one thing really worth buying there is the dedicated ("Deluxe") 2BR unit, which is the 2BR portion of the 3BR lockoff.

There aren't many of them because I believe they are only located in Phase 2 (buildings 3-6) and the developer had to split a 3BR unit to make a sale. The square footage is about as large as the 1BR Premium which also translates to similar MFs (~$2100 for 2Br Deluxe vs $1900 for the Premium 1BR vs. $3200 for the 2BR lockoff). But it's still a 2BR/2BA and the layout is actually more convenient for a family with kids, without all that extra wasted space that you have in the lockoff and the kids being a long hike away. And it being a 2BR, it can also rent at 2BR prices which means $1500-$2000 over MFs for both Spring break and Summer season (this implies it should have a relatively high resale value as well). Since they eliminated rollaways, anyone with a party of 5+ now needs a 2BR unit, so rental demand for these has actually increased in the last 3-4 years.

The flipside is that whoever owns these is not in a hurry to sell them. Out of 48 HRA resales on RedWeek, just 1 is a 2BR Deluxe and it's for Silver season. If you're patient, it will eventually pop up but expect to pay a price premium which, imo, pays off over time.

Another good alternative is the 3BR lockoff which gives you the aforementioned 2BR Deluxe unit plus a corner studio that has an actual balcony. I think these are totally underpriced (Platinum for dirt cheap on RedWeek - no Gold available as of now) in the resale market because the MFs are like a 2BR lockoff but if you rent out the Studio side you still have the 2BR Deluxe and cover a substantial part of the MFs - you may even come out ahead versus just owning the Deluxe 2BR only, and also pay maybe less overall upfront, but it's a bit more hassle renting it even in years you use it.

You can see all these floorplans on vistana.com

Dan - great advice. Ty! What do you think about Kierland as an option? For us flights are easier there. I‘m leaning towards finding a deed there because I could see our family settling in to that property over all others from a practical standpoint. I’d look for a 52 week Float that converts to 81k SOP; on top of my 44k Flex this would give us the options we need at 125 SOP annually.

 

[DanCali]

Dan - great advice. Ty! What do you think about Kierland as an option? For us flights are easier there. I‘m leaning towards finding a deed there because I could see our family settling in to that property over all others from a practical standpoint. I’d look for a 52 week Float that converts to 81k SOP; on top of my 44k Flex this would give us the options we need at 125 SOP annually.

Kierland is a great option in terms of StarOptions/MF ratio - certainly best among the mandatory resorts. Not sure what you mean by "52 week float" - you can get 81K SOs with the larger 1BR in Platinum season or the 2BR Gold season. It's tempting to go for the 2BR Gold because it costs less upfront (maybe $2K-$3K vs $8-$10K) and you get the same number of Staroptions. However, that's a nearsighted view imo because the maintenance fees for the 1BR will be lower each year and, more importantly, it has a rental value that is substantially higher then the MFs (which also accounts for the larger purchase price upfront). The Gold 2BR would be hard to rent at a price higher than the maintenance fees.

 

[CPNY]

I hear you loud and clear. A 2 BR deeded week a little closer to home that we can get to easier probably makes the most sense. HI is far for us. Atlantis would be the ideal spot. I really appreciate everyone’s feedback.

I used to own HRA. It’s a great place because of the Atlantis. Currently you can get in at 8 months for a prime week IF you are extremely lucky. We have no idea what the future holds in regards to availability at HRA due to marriott combination program. If It gets difficult to get into HRA with SO or the DC points you can always buy there. If you don’t want to buy there you can always rent. Most rentals hover around maint fees. Don’t forget about interval international. That’s a great option to try and get Hawaii. I just traded a one bedroom at SVV for Westin nanea and paid the upgrade fee and booked a 2 bedroom. There are many other ways to booking what you want without buying more. At this point, nothing will transfer into your account so you may as well wait until the official roll out of the combined program

 

[BryGuy]

Kierland is a great option in terms of StarOptions/MF ratio - certainly best among the mandatory resorts. Not sure what you mean by "52 week float" - you can get 81K SOs with the larger 1BR in Platinum season or the 2BR Gold season. It's tempting to go for the 2BR Gold because it costs less upfront (maybe $2K-$3K vs $8-$10K) and you get the same number of Staroptions. However, that's a nearsighted view imo because the maintenance fees for the 1BR will be lower each year and, more importantly, it has a rental value that is substantially higher then the MFs (which also accounts for the larger purchase price upfront). The Gold 2BR would be hard to rent at a price higher than the maintenance fees.

our family needs a 2BR though. If I owned a 1BR in Platinum season when I go to book I could tap in to my other 44k Home Options to book a 2 BR - is that accurate? Sorry, I am not an expert on this deeded stuff - I only know the Flex program. Would I be obligated to book a 1BR 12 months out and otherwise have to use as SOP 8 months out if I want a 2BR? Hopefully you follow the question.

 

[DanCali]

our family needs a 2BR though. If I owned a 1BR in Platinum season when I go to book I could tap in to my other 44k Home Options to book a 2 BR - is that accurate? Sorry, I am not an expert on this deeded stuff - I only know the Flex program. Would I be obligated to book a 1BR 12 months out and otherwise have to use as SOP 8 months out if I want a 2BR? Hopefully you follow the question.

I think I follow. The 1BR would have to be booked as a 1BR during 8-12 months. And a 2BR in Platinum season at 8 months out is tough - even a 1BR is extremely hard at 8 months during many Platinum weeks.

If you are more likely to go there in the Platinum season then I'd consider a 2BR, especially if it's what you need for usage - it'd probably cost you $~15K but that doesn't go down the drain since presumably it'd have a resale value years from now. Resale prices were $17K-$18K when we were looking to buy our first week around 2008 and they are not much lower today... Timeshares can rarely be thought of as an investment, but buying here where we did is probably as close as you get.