4 New WM Locations

[Mongoose]

Just saw this in the news section of the Worldmark website. Welcome surprise!

You can now use your credits to reserve a vacation at even more destinations. A limited number of suites will be designated for use by WorldMark owners at these Club Wyndham properties. The following are now among the resorts you can book directly from this website:

• WorldMark Patriots’ Place in Williamsburg, Virginia
• WorldMark Kingsgate in Williamsburg, Virginia
• WorldMark Riverside Suites in San Antonio, Texas
• WorldMark Flagstaff in Flagstaff, Arizona

These properties are still managed by Club Wyndham, so your on-site experience may be slightly different from what you’ve come to expect at WorldMark resorts. You’ll still enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi, and the highest quality of service from the resort staff, but you’ll need to request spice packets, and check-out time is 10 a.m.

For more information, review the frequetly asked questions below.

 

[dioxide45]

You’ll still enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi

What does this mean? I thought Worldmark owners and guests had to pay for WiFi? Are they saying here that you get complimentary WiFi because it is technically a Club Wyndham property? If so, their wording it a little odd.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Well I have both wynd and WM. I got a small WM account because I didn't want to pay the higher club pass fee.

But I guess it gives me another inventory bucket for these locations. Wonder what Club wyndham got from WM as an inventory exchange.

 

[CO skier]

What does this mean? I thought Worldmark owners and guests had to pay for WiFi?

This is true at WorldMark resorts, as is spice packets and what is now 11 a.m. checkout time. That is why "your on-site experience may be slightly different from what you’ve come to expect at WorldMark resorts" when staying at these Club Wyndham properties. For WorldMark members who used Club Pass to book these resorts in the past, they and now all WorldMark members will receive free WiFi at these resorts, which is slightly different from WorldMark resorts.

 

[CO skier]

Wonder what Club wyndham got from WM as an inventory exchange.

Nothing, because it was not an exchange. Wyndham simply deeded weeks at these resorts that they owned to WorldMark the Club. This has been the case before when Shawnee and Pagosa Springs and some other Club Wyndham resorts where a collection of weeks were added (deeded) to WorldMark the Club. The best part is that what was once "weeks" at these resorts can now be reserved a day or days at a time through WorldMark.

I already have a couple of reservations on the books for WM Flagstaff for next year.

 

[bizaro86]

Nothing, because it was not an exchange. Wyndham simply deeded weeks at these resorts that they owned to WorldMark the Club. This has been the case before when Shawnee and Pagosa Springs and some other Club Wyndham resorts where a collection of weeks were added (deeded) to WorldMark the Club. The best part is that what was once "weeks" at these resorts can now be reserved a day or days at a time through WorldMark.

I already have a couple of reservations on the books for WM Flagstaff for next year.

Wyndham deeded weeks at older harder to sell legacy resorts to Worldmark in exchange for WM credits. It also took a bunch of WM credits and deposited them into Club Wyndham South Pacific. Now that club has a bunch of dedicated Fiji units that they get using those credits.

So while the mechanics aren't technically a trade WM owners used to have access to a bunch of Fiji units and now we have these instead. I think it’s likely these weeks cost more per credit generated than the WM average so this probably bumps up fees (very slightly) in exchange for direct access to some (not very desireable in my opinion) club wyn resorts.

It's not like these are Clearwater/Manhattan/Bonnet Creek, although I'm glad to hear Flagstaff is useful for you!

 

[Mongoose]

What does this mean? I thought Worldmark owners and guests had to pay for WiFi? Are they saying here that you get complimentary WiFi because it is technically a Club Wyndham property? If so, their wording it a little odd.

When properties are managed as Club Wyndham, but also have WM, you follow the Wyndham practices. This means free wifi, however 10:00 AM checkout.

 

[Mongoose]

Wyndham deeded weeks at older harder to sell legacy resorts to Worldmark in exchange for WM credits. It also took a bunch of WM credits and deposited them into Club Wyndham South Pacific. Now that club has a bunch of dedicated Fiji units that they get using those credits.

So while the mechanics aren't technically a trade WM owners used to have access to a bunch of Fiji units and now we have these instead. I think it’s likely these weeks cost more per credit generated than the WM average so this probably bumps up fees (very slightly) in exchange for direct access to some (not very desireable in my opinion) club wyn resorts.

Do you have any details on this?

 

[bizaro86]

Do you have any details on this?

The best source for Club Wyndham South Pacific is the Redseason broker/newsletter. I get it by email.

The most recent edition had this comment:



What is happening in Club Wyndham and AVC?

Wyndham - New Club Apartments in Denarau
Wyndham recently acquired 8 more standard 2 bedroom apartments at Denarau for club members. They have done it in a slightly unconventional way by purchasing credits in the USA Worldmark by Wyndham club and using those credits just to book Denarau apartments for club members to use. This effectively increases the apartments available at Denarau from 155 to 163.

 

[chosshaul]

now that worldmark is owned by Wyndham, does that mean there won’t be any new 100% WM properties in the future?

 

[Mongoose]

now that worldmark is owned by Wyndham, does that mean there won’t be any new 100% WM properties in the future?

Duck and cover! Incoming!

Wyndham does not own Worldmark. Its owned by the Owners. Wyndham is just the manager and sales arm. There hasn't been much in the way of new development in most timeshares in the past 8 years as compared to the period prior. That being said we did just get Moab not long ago.

 

[easyrider]

Nothing, because it was not an exchange. Wyndham simply deeded weeks at these resorts that they owned to WorldMark the Club. This has been the case before when Shawnee and Pagosa Springs and some other Club Wyndham resorts where a collection of weeks were added (deeded) to WorldMark the Club. The best part is that what was once "weeks" at these resorts can now be reserved a day or days at a time through WorldMark.

I already have a couple of reservations on the books for WM Flagstaff for next year.

I've drove through Flagstaff many times but haven't considered staying in Flagstaff. What are you going to Flagstaff for ? Is it the Grand Canyon ?

Bill

 

[Sandy VDH]

Grand Canyon, and some additional surrounding NPs and other sights. I stayed in Flagstaff last summer during our UT, AR, NV circle trip.

 

[CO skier]

Wyndham deeded weeks at older harder to sell legacy resorts to Worldmark in exchange for WM credits. It also took a bunch of WM credits and deposited them into Club Wyndham South Pacific. Now that club has a bunch of dedicated Fiji units that they get using those credits.

So while the mechanics aren't technically a trade WM owners used to have access to a bunch of Fiji units and now we have these instead.

You are conflating two completely different events. The Fiji were probably part of the Timeshare Exchange Network (TEN) that was replace with Club Pass. This has nothing to do with Wyndham deeding some Club Wyndham weeks to WorldMark the Club in exchange for WorldMark credits to sell. Club Wyndham owners are not part of this deal, because they get no benefit from this event -- it is only between Wyndham and WorldMark the Club.

I think it’s likely these weeks cost more per credit generated than the WM average so this probably bumps up fees (very slightly) in exchange for direct access to some (not very desireable in my opinion) club wyn resorts.

You are making false assumptions based on what?

I do not care about the other new resort additions, but here is how the credit chart for Flagstaff compares to the previous greenfield resort addition of Moab:

Moab (quite reasonable compared to resort additions over the previous 10 years):

Scottsdale, including Phase 2, the next most recent addition to WorldMark. Notice the complete absence of Blue Season weeks:

Flagstaff:

It appears that Flagstaff is one of the "lowest cost" resorts in the WorldMark system for members to reserve, or can you show us any other WorldMark resort that offers 8 consecutive weeks plus two more in a 1 bedroom for only 4000 credits per week? At my ownership level, I can stay any Monday through Thursday night of the year in a full one bedroom condo for less than $85/night TOTAL (less than $45/night in Blue Season), because there are no taxes on credit reservations in Arizona. Crazy good deal.

 

[CO skier]

I've drove through Flagstaff many times but haven't considered staying in Flagstaff. What are you going to Flagstaff for ? Is it the Grand Canyon ?

Bill

Fall trip for Grand Canyon (day trip), Sedona and associated wine tastings points south plus the obligatory Sedona airport sunset view (2 or 3 days to do it all), Lowell Astronomical Observatory (if it is open), Meteor Crater plus option for a picture of my girl in (or next to) a flatbed Ford in Winslow, AZ (1 day), walk-around and dinner in old town Flagstaff (1/2 day) ...

What I am really interested in is the second week to scout out Arizona Snowbowl for ski weeks for less than $400/week at WM Flagstaff. This year was a complete bust due to the snow drought, but this is an anomaly as far as I can tell. We will see next year.

 

[bizaro86]

It appears that Flagstaff is one of the "lowest cost" resorts in the WorldMark system for members to reserve, or can you show us any other WorldMark resort that offers 8 consecutive weeks plus two more in a 1 bedroom for only 4000 credits per week? At my ownership level, I can stay any Monday through Thursday night of the year in a full one bedroom condo for less than $85/night TOTAL (less than $45/night in Blue Season), because there are no taxes on credit reservations in Arizona. Crazy good deal.

The fact that it has high fees and low credit values mean that it is increasing the average cost per credit paid by all owners. According the the MF spreadsheet a 2br Ridgewood is $1358 per year. Even the ones that generate 13000 wm credits WM is paying over $0.10 per credit just in fees for that, with nothing toward Worldmark overall costs like the reservations department. And some of those blue season weeks you're so pleased with have underlying MF of nearly $0.20 per worldmark credit generated.

If Wyndham the developer deposits inventory into WM that costs the club 20 cents per credit to maintain our dues are going to have to go up faster than they otherwise would.

These are high MF cost resorts, and having them will make the WM fees higher than they would be otherwise.

 

[bizaro86]

You are conflating two completely different events. The Fiji were probably part of the Timeshare Exchange Network (TEN) that was replace with Club Pass. This has nothing to do with Wyndham deeding some Club Wyndham weeks to WorldMark the Club in exchange for WorldMark credits to sell. Club Wyndham owners are not part of this deal, because they get no benefit from this event -- it is only between Wyndham and WorldMark the Club.

No, this is separate from TEN/Club Pass.

Wyndham (the developer) has deposited Worldmark the club credits into the South Pacific club and that club is using them to book Fiji units for their members.

Wyndham (the developer) has deposited club wyndham weeks into Worldmark the Club at these resorts in exchange for Worldmark the club credits.

Are they the same specific Worldmark the club credits? Maybe, maybe not. Worldmark the club credits are 100% fungible to the developer, and these transactions happened at about the same time so it isn't a huge stretch.

 

[CO skier]

The fact that it has high fees and low credit values mean that it is increasing the average cost per credit paid by all owners. According the the MF spreadsheet a 2br Ridgewood is $1358 per year. Even the ones that generate 13000 wm credits WM is paying over $0.10 per credit just in fees for that, with nothing toward Worldmark overall costs like the reservations department. And some of those blue season weeks you're so pleased with have underlying MF of nearly $0.20 per worldmark credit generated.

If Wyndham the developer deposits inventory into WM that costs the club 20 cents per credit to maintain our dues are going to have to go up faster than they otherwise would.

These are high MF cost resorts, and having them will make the WM fees higher than they would be otherwise.

There is the famous 5% annual cap on WorldMark Club Dues.

As long as I can book up to 8 consecutive weeks for 4000 credits each, I and probably any other owner booking at WM Flagstaff for any time of the year, and the other new resorts that must be a similar bargain, do ... not ... care how the sausage is made.

 

[bizaro86]

There is the famous 5% annual cap on WorldMark Club Dues.

As long as I can book up to 8 consecutive weeks for 4000 credits each, I and probably any other owner booking at WM Flagstaff for any time of the year, and the other new resorts that must be a similar bargain, do ... not ... care how the sausage is made.

That's certainly one way to look at it. I think if the club is run that way we're in for consistent 5% dues raises, underfunded reserves, and more special assessments.

 

[CO skier]

That's certainly one way to look at it. I think if the club is run that way we're in for consistent 5% dues raises, underfunded reserves, and more special assessments.

Clearly, you know nothing about anything when it comes to WorldMark. In 2020 and 2021 Wyndham voluntarily capped their otherwise 15% management fees to 11%, and contributed the excess $19 million dollars to the WorldMark reserves fund. There is a new WorldMark fund that Wyndham contributes annual management fees exceeding 11% to offset any potential special assessments.

 

[bizaro86]

Clearly, you know nothing about anything when it comes to WorldMark. In 2020 and 2021 Wyndham voluntarily capped their otherwise 15% management fees to 11%, and contributed the excess $19 million dollars to the WorldMark reserves fund. There is a new WorldMark fund that Wyndham contributes annual management fees exceeding 11% to offset any potential special assessments.

That's the spirit!

That probably covers adding inventory massively more expensive than the average forever without increasing fees right?

 

[mountainboy]

Fall trip for Grand Canyon (day trip), Sedona and associated wine tastings points south plus the obligatory Sedona airport sunset view (2 or 3 days to do it all), Lowell Astronomical Observatory (if it is open), Meteor Crater plus option for a picture of my girl in (or next to) a flatbed Ford in Winslow, AZ (1 day), walk-around and dinner in old town Flagstaff (1/2 day) ...

What I am really interested in is the second week to scout out Arizona Snowbowl for ski weeks for less than $400/week at WM Flagstaff. This year was a complete bust due to the snow drought, but this is an anomaly as far as I can tell. We will see next year.

Yup.
Usually AZ Snowbowl has much more snow...

 

[Mongoose]

That's the spirit!

That probably covers adding inventory massively more expensive than the average forever without increasing fees right?

It’s truly an irrelevant conversation until we know how many unit weeks have been added.

 

[Breezy52]

The best source for Club Wyndham South Pacific is the Redseason broker/newsletter. I get it by email.

The most recent edition had this comment:



What is happening in Club Wyndham and AVC?

Wyndham - New Club Apartments in Denarau
Wyndham recently acquired 8 more standard 2 bedroom apartments at Denarau for club members. They have done it in a slightly unconventional way by purchasing credits in the USA Worldmark by Wyndham club and using those credits just to book Denarau apartments for club members to use. This effectively increases the apartments available at Denarau from 155 to 163.

Sounds like WM owners got scr…d by this method, doesn’t this just make Wyndham a Mega Renter?