[ 2021 ] Purchase assistance

[CPNY]

thanks - we are going to roll the dice on WKV. my fiance wants flexibility and I like Westin Princeville > Marriott Poipu (we aren't beach people, she's a hiker). i wouldn't mind spending a week for spring training in scottsdale once in awhile either.

Perfect! Good luck. You’d be getting a great ownership in the VSN

 

[mauitraveler]

thanks - we are going to roll the dice on WKV. my fiance wants flexibility and I like Westin Princeville > Marriott Poipu (we aren't beach people, she's a hiker). i wouldn't mind spending a week for spring training in scottsdale once in awhile either.

I also have a sneaky suspicion trading into an ADA room at 8 months is going to be easier than regular units, but we shall see. with the difference in maintenance fees, we can go 3 years and absorb the resale fee hit even if it doesn't work.

Great choice! Also, if you are comfortable with depositing the smaller 1-BR into Interval, we've been lucky to trade into a 1-BR at KORVN for three summers in a row. However, we pay our MF early, so that we can deposit early so that we can be higher in the queue for our request to be matched. Happy travels to you! CJ

 

[KeithR]

fyi - one just traded yesterday at $15k

 

[sherakay]

C

I’ve heard under 12k in the beginning of the pandemic wasn’t impossible. I’ve seen a few listings at $13,500 since. I’d love a WKV but as we get closer to Marriott/Vistana integration, not really knowing what the future of the VSN will look like makes me a bit nervous to lay out such a high amount of money for a trader unit. Units like that could be big winners or big losers depending on how the integration is set up. In the end, we are dealing with timeshares and anything can change. SVV is an easier buy in and less risk upfront, but if the VSN stays the same long term then WKV would be best.

Could you please expound on what you meant if the VSN stays the same long term WKV is better? I’m trying to buy a SVV.

 

[echino]

If your goal is Maui in the summer, buy WKORV or WKORVN, but only ocean view or oceanfront. Do not buy island view.

 

[CPNY]

C

Could you please expound on what you meant if the VSN stays the same long term WKV is better? I’m trying to buy a SVV.

SVV is great. It’s what I own as well. Who knows what the future holds. WKV has extremely low maint fees and in the long run is a better ownership for that fact.

 

[sherakay]

SVV is great. It’s what I own as well. Who knows what the future holds. WKV has extremely low maint fees and in the long run is a better ownership for that fact.

Their maintenance fees are nice but I just couldn’t rationalize paying $9700 for 81K compared to $1250 for 81K because it would take 21 years to break even

 

[CPNY]

Their maintenance fees are nice but I just couldn’t rationalize paying $9700 for 81K compared to $1250 for 81K because it would take 21 years to break even

1250 for 81K standard platinum or a lockout?

 

[sherakay]

Standard. A negotiated price before I realized I wanted a EOY


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[CPNY]

Standard. A negotiated price before I realized I wanted a EOY


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That’s a great price. I’d go for it

 

[KeithR]

I was told by a broker that it’s ~$10k for 148,200 SO at Vistana.

 

[byeloe]

Their maintenance fees are nice but I just couldn’t rationalize paying $9700 for 81K compared to $1250 for 81K because it would take 21 years to break even

WKV does hold its value pretty well, so the difference is not as big

 

[DavidnRobin]

WKV (Plat+) has rentability
along with low MFs
and a great resort.

Our WKVs have more than paid for themselves in renting alone.


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[needvaca]

I was told by a broker that it’s ~$10k for 148,200 SO at Vistana.

Be sure he’s not trying to sell you Westin Flex or Sheraton Flex. Westin Kierland Villas is much better and comes with mandatory staroptions and have resale value

 

[DanCali]

Their maintenance fees are nice but I just couldn’t rationalize paying $9700 for 81K compared to $1250 for 81K because it would take 21 years to break even

That's not the best way to think about it because you are assuming the resale value would be zero for both in the future. I purchased out first 2 WKV units in 2009-2010 (bad economic times) and can still sell them today for more than my purchase price. You are buying on the resale market and you will sell in the future on the resale market. Yes, prices can go down if maintenace fees go up or if the system changes in unfavorable ways, but the point I'm making is that your ufpront cost is more like an investment, not a cost you never see back (e.g. maintenace fees).

 

[sherakay]

WKV (Plat+) has rentability
along with low MFs
and a great resort.

Our WKVs have more than paid for themselves in renting alone.


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Oh I’m buying this for my family to use! There won’t be any SO leftover to rent after I book our family trips! We also own DVC and paid a pretty penny for that resale as well and we’ve rented out points twice and we make a nice profit to use back when we wanted to take a cruise instead. But if you do things legally you have to claim income on timeshare rentals when you do taxes so the profit margin gets cut slimmer.

Anything can happen in the next five to ten years so knowing I didn’t put a lot in to begin with makes me feel better about adding on another timeshare system. If and when we do sell we don’t have to worry about possibly taking a ‘hit’ because we didn’t really put ourselves out there to begin with.

But I can’t wait to see WKV this Sep when we go for the first time for our anniversary. Unless of course the Covid restrictions lift and we’ll do Mexico instead.

 

[sherakay]

That's not the best way to think about it because you are assuming the resale value would be zero for both in the future. I purchased out first 2 WKV units in 2009-2010 (bad economic times) and can still sell them today for more than my purchase price. You are buying on the resale market and you will sell in the future on the resale market. Yes, prices can go down if maintenace fees go up or if the system changes in unfavorable ways, but the point I'm making is that your ufpront cost is more like an investment, not a cost you never see back (e.g. maintenace fees).

Yes I can understand that. We bought two DVC contracts in 2017, one small one direct for blue card benefits and a large one resale. We ended up selling the small direct one last year because of Covid and bought a trailer instead. We sold for more on the resale market than we paid buying direct.

But due to the unknown changes coming down the line in 2022 and 2023 from Marriott and knowing how they look down their noses aresale buyers I don’t think the future of resale contracts from Vistana will hold their value.
If the CEO speech from last year holds firm and they create one interchangeable product between Marriott/Vistana and knowing how they view resale contracts I think they will make the ability of resale buyers to exchange into their properties a non-starter without a huge cash outlay to requal their contracts. So even though these properties are ‘mandatory’ now, they might seem ‘voluntary’ to future buyers because they might feel they won’t get access to the whole Marriott portfolio.

But in another year or two once we know how things pan out and I find 81k SO isn’t enough and I want to buy more, depending on how much MF are then I’m sure I can find a 67,100 1BD WKV at a much more palatable price. I just have no intention of staying a week there and we’d only go for a few days around our anniversary in week 38/39 which is gold plus and not hard to book from what I’ve been told so I won’t need home resort advantage.

 

[KeithR]

update: opening escrow with a private party for a WKV Platinum 2BR LO. $14.5k + closing costs

very excited, looking forward to a smooth transaction and booking WPORV for next summer.

 

[DanCali]

Congrats!

 

[KeithR]

the way I would think about SVV vs WKV if resort/location didn't matter is to produce the following CFs:

0. negative cash flow for the SVV purchase price
1. take the difference in SVV/WKV purchase price and invest that in the S&P 500 @ 7% (opportunity cost)
2. subtract the MF difference as SVV is higher
3. subtract WKV 2x MF rentals periodically (once every 4 years?)
4. include a sale at a set date (say 10 years) + what you believe the depreciation on WKV may be (if any)
5. PV that stream @ 8%

then you can compare to today's WKV cost differential.

but most people won't do #1 and spend $ elsewhere. so it really just becomes a MF difference play over set time frame with the occasional rental. terminal value decline (ie. sale in year X) is probably similar for both as WKV holds decent value and SVV is cheap to begin with.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

the way I would think about SVV vs WKV if resort/location didn't matter is to produce the following CFs:

0. negative cash flow for the SVV purchase price
1. take the difference in SVV/WKV purchase price and invest that in the S&P 500 @ 7% (opportunity cost)
2. subtract the MF difference as SVV is higher
3. subtract WKV 2x MF rentals periodically (once every 4 years?)
4. include a sale at a set date (say 10 years) + what you believe the depreciation on WKV may be (if any)
5. PV that stream @ 8%

then you can compare to today's WKV cost differential.

but most people won't do #1 and spend $ elsewhere. so it really just becomes a MF difference play over set time frame with the occasional rental. terminal value decline (ie. sale in year X) is probably similar for both as WKV holds decent value and SVV is cheap to begin with.

No matter what numbers I used I kept getting the same answer. 42

 

[Mroze]

update: opening escrow with a private party for a WKV Platinum 2BR LO. $14.5k + closing costs

very excited, looking forward to a smooth transaction and booking WPORV for next summer.

Looks like prices have gone back up.
Thought with COVID the price would still be low.

In March we closed on a EY-2BR-WVK Platinum+ 148.1K for $10K + Closing via RedWeek Full-Service.

Have seen others on TUG report closing on EY-2BR-Platinum+ 148.1K for between $8K to $9K.

 

[KeithR]

saw one trade for 12k early in the pandemic on redweek. but those probably also had to pay pandemic year MFs so prices "should go back up." hawaii wasn't even usable last year (and still isn't open - we are going to BI Fairmont in July and fingers crossed).

i know a bunch were wanting WKV to fall to 10k in a summer pandemic thread, but never saw any transactions. at this point I feel $13.5k-14k is a good deal, I paid slightly over. Could have held out at my $14k offer level to several ads but made the deal. As mentioned before, the $15.5k week on RW traded at $15k.

 

[Mroze]

saw one trade for 12k early in the pandemic on redweek. but those probably also had to pay pandemic year MFs so prices "should go back up." hawaii wasn't even usable last year (and still isn't open - we are going to BI Fairmont in July and fingers crossed).

i know a bunch were wanting WKV to fall to 10k in a summer pandemic thread, but never saw any transactions. at this point I feel $13.5k-14k is a good deal, I paid slightly over. Could have held out at my $14k offer level to several ads but made the deal. As mentioned before, the $15.5k week on RW traded at $15k.

We made an offer of $10K on this in FEB and they accepted within a few hours with no counter. Next Use-Year 2022.
There were others listed on RedWeek in Feb that showed asking of $10K with a status of "Sold".

 

[KeithR]

I’m glad you scored. Someone clearly needed to get out.