[ 2021 ] Purchase assistance

[KeithR]

Hello, have really enjoyed reading this forum over the years. We are now considering a purchase, but concerned that we might be looking at things wrong. In short:

1) As Californians, we want to go to Hawaii (with a child) most years - although really prefer Kauai to Maui. I have stayed at both the Westin Princeville and Kaanapali before. Scottsdale isn't a bad option either for us distance-wise, hence our interest in Kierland Villas to maximize SO and low MFs.
2) However, my fiance is a high school principal and has more limited time in the summers than normal teachers, so traveling July is the norm. Other weeks of course are terrible weeks to book timeshares (Tgiving and Spring Break)
3) We intend on using other resorts in the network so not sure a low-priced EOY WPORV voluntary property purchase makes sense. Orlando and some others likely with the kiddo.
4) Last, I am in a wheelchair and require an ADA room - does this mean we shouldn't be looking at ocean view/front villas. Usually i get bottom floor, garden view hotel rooms at resorts by default.

Original plan was to purchase 2BR WKL Platinum and trade into WPORV as we wish, but with her limited schedule is that difficult to get 8 months out for the summer? If so, I'm guessing we would need to look at WKORV as that would at least guarantee us Maui.

Thanks for the help!

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

If you absolutely want Hawaii in July then I'd advise buying at the property of your choice there. If you'd just like Hawaii in July but don't mind if you don't get it then buy elsewhere and roll the dice at the 8 month mark with SO and I'd say you'd have a good chance of getting a studio, a slight chance of getting a 1BR and almost no chance of getting a 2BR unless you pick up a cancelation.

 

[daviator]

I'll give you my thoughts but I'm sure others will have more to say.

I assume you mean WKV and not WKL? I don't know what WKL is.

If your goal was to get into Maui during the summer, I'd tell you that you should probably buy at WKORV to be assured of getting a reservation at 12 months. But Princeville isn't quite as popular, in my experience, even though it's a fantastic property in every way. So if your goal is to get into Princeville in the summer, I think you'd have a good shot at doing so at 8 months with SOs from a mandatory resort like WKV. I'd wait to see what others have to say — I've only gone to WPORV a couple of times, but it always seems to pop up as available when I'm searching for Maui (which often ISN'T available.) It also could be that they have more unsold inventory on Kauai and thus more general availability, so it may get tougher over time as they manage to sell more. In the future, you may also be competing with Marriott Vacation Club people at 8 months.

I do think that the people who stay up late and search for reservations at midnight eastern time right on the first day they can do so have a good shot at success. I've almost always had success doing so.

As for ADA rooms, I think they do reserve them separately, there's a box you check when you search for a reservation if you require an ADA room. You might even have access to inventory that the rest of us don't see, I'm not sure how that works. At the Maui resorts, every building has elevators, and I think most or all do at Princeville too. I don't know how many rooms have other accommodations for those with disabilities.

As a fellow Californian, I'd also recommend Westin Desert Willow as a nice property that is drivable. We ended up buying a week there because we enjoyed it enough (that was before I found TUG, and it's easy enough to get into that I'd have been better off to buy resale somewhere else. Oh well.

As a general rule, I'd say buy at the property you want to stay at the most, because that will give you the most and best options for that property. But I feel like you could probably get away with owning at WKV and trading into Princeville, but you should probably see what others say.

 

[rcv82]

I second everything daviator said. You may do fine getting into WPORV with StarOptions at 8 months, but personally if Hawaii was a priority for me in July I would prefer to own something with 12 month priority. With WKORV south and north being mandatory, picking up a low cost island/resort view may be one good option. Sometimes these are available pretty inexpensive, although currently on Redweek there is little inventory.

One other option: If you can find Westin Flex resale at a good price, you might want to consider this if you can live with being limited to the 8 Westin resorts in the plan. This would give you 12 month priority to any of them, including WPORV, and it allows you to book 1 to 14 days starting on any day of the week. This is nice if you want to travel on an off day of the week. The downside is (1) maintenance fees are high, but pretty close in line with the other Hawaii properties, and (2) because it is voluntary, if you buy resale won't get StarOptions to go to the other Vistana resorts not in Westin Flex. But the 8 resorts in Westin Flex are good ones. This is much less restrictive then say buying a WPORV week resale where all you can do is a week there or trade in II.

 

[jackball]

At the risk of being chastised by the group, this might be one of those times where buying from the developer is the most workable option. If you buy WPORV resale, you will only be going to that resort. If you buy WPORV from the developer, you will pay a premium but will have the ability to book Princeville at 12 months and the flexibility to book other resorts at 8 months.

 

[vacationtime1]

My suggestion is a 2bd Platinum+ Kierland eoy. OP prefers Kauai to Maui and the Kierland unit should work for July reservations at Princeville at the eight month mark. For the Maui trips, rent. For the Orlando trips, Getaways may be available.

 

[KeithR]

thanks for the suggestions. I'm definitely the log-in exactly 8 months and book kind of person - in fact, that's usually how we book intl business class flights on points.

it might still be best to buy in WKV (sorry for the typo, daviator) and roll the dice for a few years and sell less a commission if things don't work out. I don't think Hawaii is mandatory every year now. Seems Princeville is a decent shot at 8 months, but Maui isn't. That's fine with us.

 

[DavidnRobin]

At the risk of being chastised by the group, this might be one of those times where buying from the developer is the most workable option. If you buy WPORV resale, you will only be going to that resort. If you buy WPORV from the developer, you will pay a premium but will have the ability to book Princeville at 12 months and the flexibility to book other resorts at 8 months.

WPORV Developer Cost >$50,000
WPORV Resale ~$6,000

WPORV is easy to exchange into using StarOptions.


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[carpie99]

2 bedroom Vistana Platinum Mandatory - 81,000 pts = 1 bedroom

 

[vacationtime1]

2 bedroom Vistana Platinum Mandatory - 81,000 pts = 1 bedroom

A WKV shoulder season 2bd unit does get only 81000 StarOptions, but a WKV platinum+ week 2bd gets 148100 SO's. Same MF's.

 

[KeithR]

follow up question: if we purchase in Maui and book 12 months in advance for July - but see openings in Princeville 8 months out can we switch properties for that year?

 

[vacationtime1]

follow up question: if we purchase in Maui and book 12 months in advance for July - but see openings in Princeville 8 months out can we switch properties for that year?

Yes.

 

[rcv82]

One other option: Buy the WPORV resale of you can get it around $6k. Then buy $10k in Flex from developer to requalify WPORV in network of you want StarOptions.


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[DavidnRobin]

One other option: Buy the WPORV resale of you can get it around $6k. Then buy $10k in Flex from developer to requalify WPORV in network of you want StarOptions.


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WPORV MFs are some of the highest in VSE.


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[KeithR]

did the math on Marriott last night - wow, thats expensive for Hawaii during the summer. We would need 5k points for island views, so $33k upfront plus equivalent MFs. More flex due to the larger network, but still. Also, their premier property on Kauai is Kalapaki Bay which is nice with an amazing pool area, but prefer the quieter Princeville/Poipu locations.

I'm going to reach out to Syed on WKV vs. WKORVN for ADA units. Perhaps easier to get than regular villas at 8 months.

 

[CPNY]

did the math on Marriott last night - wow, thats expensive for Hawaii during the summer. We would need 5k points for island views, so $33k upfront plus equivalent MFs. More flex due to the larger network, but still. Also, their premier property on Kauai is Kalapaki Bay which is nice with an amazing pool area, but prefer the quieter Princeville/Poipu locations.

I'm going to reach out to Syed on WKV vs. WKORVN for ADA units. Perhaps easier to get than regular villas at 8 months.

WKV is a great option. As you said earlier, If it doesn’t work out for you, you can always sell it. Of course future resale value depends on what Marriott does to the VSN. IMO future availability in the VSN is uncertain. We all hope it will look like it has in the past, but a new program could change the way we book our favorite resorts in the VSN. Of course, mandatory owners could be big winners, time will tell.

As long as you know that change is inevitable and are willing to play the midnight at 8 month game, then WKV is a great option.

 

[KeithR]

Syed is a really nice guy - we had a pleasant discussion. He walked through both Maui options in excellent detail (OV at South and IV at North are the best options due to unit availability) and we prefer the North property. He recommended not taking chances with a summer timeshare at 8 months but admitted Princeville isn't near as popular. ADA is available and he has wheelchair clients at each.

He also has a Marriott Waiohai legacy week available that is better from a MF basis ($2250). I'm assuming that's just a normal timeshare with II exchange, nothing special. Yes? It does make a lot more sense that $3100 for Princeville MFs (yikes!). Perhaps I need to be comparing Waiohai to a WKV purchase.

 

[vacationtime1]

Waiohai is very different compared to either Westin Princeville or Ka'anapali. Waiohai is entirely dedicated two bedroom units (no lockoffs). The units are smaller. Most have lousy or zero water views (many of the "island view" units overlook a parking lot). Excellent adjacent beach. I suggest renting there at least once before buying.

Full disclosure: we owned at Waiohai for 15 years (sold it last year), have stayed at Princeville and Ka'anapali numerous times, and think the world of Syed.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

We own 148, 000 (rounded #) at Kierland and seem to always get into Maui. My son in law is a teacher so we often go school vacations. The availability could change down the road when/if Marriott integrates more completely with Westin but right now we are thrilled with our ownership. Between North, south and Nanea, there are a lot of units. We dont always find 2 bedrooms, sometimes we reserve a 1 bedroom and a studio and if they can they will put them together for you, no guarantees. Maybe we have just been lucky but we have owned for 6 yrs now and have had great exchanges

 

[CPNY]

Syed is a really nice guy - we had a pleasant discussion. He walked through both Maui options in excellent detail (OV at South and IV at North are the best options due to unit availability) and we prefer the North property. He recommended not taking chances with a summer timeshare at 8 months but admitted Princeville isn't near as popular. ADA is available and he has wheelchair clients at each.

He also has a Marriott Waiohai legacy week available that is better from a MF basis ($2250). I'm assuming that's just a normal timeshare with II exchange, nothing special. Yes? It does make a lot more sense that $3100 for Princeville MFs (yikes!). Perhaps I need to be comparing Waiohai to a WKV purchase.

If you want to go to Hawaii most of the time, then buy there. Buying at kaanapali will give you the ability to use SO at 8 months in the event you want to go to Princeville.

 

[KeithR]

This is all very helpful, thanks.

My struggle with WKORVN is paying $1k more in annual MFs knowing I want to trade into Princeville. And in Vistana, seems mandatory resorts are hugely preferable over the life and worth the premium.

 

[KeithR]

what's a decent price for WKL right now? under 15k?

 

[needvaca]

This is all very helpful, thanks.

My struggle with WKORVN is paying $1k more in annual MFs knowing I want to trade into Princeville. And in Vistana, seems mandatory resorts are hugely preferable over the life and worth the premium.

DO NOT buy WKORV if you really want to go to Princeville. It is too expensive.
Westin Kierland Villas (WKV) or SVV Bella or Key West are a much better buy if you strictly buying for Staroptions.

WKV is a great buy at $12k-$13k. It’s a decent buy at $14-$15k. I own both WKV and SVV and both have been great

 

[CPNY]

what's a decent price for WKL right now? under 15k?

I’ve heard under 12k in the beginning of the pandemic wasn’t impossible. I’ve seen a few listings at $13,500 since. I’d love a WKV but as we get closer to Marriott/Vistana integration, not really knowing what the future of the VSN will look like makes me a bit nervous to lay out such a high amount of money for a trader unit. Units like that could be big winners or big losers depending on how the integration is set up. In the end, we are dealing with timeshares and anything can change. SVV is an easier buy in and less risk upfront, but if the VSN stays the same long term then WKV would be best.

 

[KeithR]

thanks - we are going to roll the dice on WKV. my fiance wants flexibility and I like Westin Princeville > Marriott Poipu (we aren't beach people, she's a hiker). i wouldn't mind spending a week for spring training in scottsdale once in awhile either.

I also have a sneaky suspicion trading into an ADA room at 8 months is going to be easier than regular units, but we shall see. with the difference in maintenance fees, we can go 3 years and absorb the resale fee hit even if it doesn't work.