[ 2020 ] Daylight-saving time is an archaic, unhealthy and stupid ritual.

[callwill]

2nd post on this subject, a little more detailed...

Most of the complainers have no problem with traveling to a destination in a different time zone for a vacation, business or family. Most of the complainers have no problem with staying up an extra hour to watch a movie/sporting event or some other performance. Most of the complainers have no problem getting up extra early if they have something they want to do that necessitates it (going fishing, hunting or whatever). They do like having 2 extra times a year to complain about something.

 

[amycurl]

I will note that there had been promises made about changing this, but I guess that didn't happen. Let our bodies adjust naturally to the changing light. Linear time is a human construct, anyway.

 

[LannyPC]

Most of the complainers have no problem with traveling to a destination in a different time zone for a vacation, business or family.

Exactly! How many people do you hear saying, "No, I do not travel outside my time zone because [insert here all the different complaints they have about DST]."?

 

[x3 skier]

I can choose to travel to a different time zone (and do regularly). I have NO choice about DST and see no use in changing time twice a year. Pick one and be done with this nonsense.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I just see no point in the time change.

 

[PigsDad]

Exactly! How many people do you hear saying, "No, I do not travel outside my time zone because [insert here all the different complaints they have about DST]."?

Yep. And yet the complaining goes on, and on, and on...

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

I just see no point in the time change.

Kurt

 

[x3 skier]

View attachment 107400

Kurt

So change to DST and leave it there.

 

[jp10558]

2nd post on this subject, a little more detailed...

Most of the complainers have no problem with traveling to a destination in a different time zone for a vacation, business or family.

You miss the major point that for vacation, business, or family travels - there's an actual reason for the individual to go through the jet lag / pain. I don't think there ever was, and there certainly isn't in 2025 a reason or actual benefit to mucking around with the clocks. NOTHING we do daily is dependent on daylight. It's not like we get off work early or get to go late because it's still dark out or getting dark out.

Maybe in 1915 (WW1) there were important energy savings, but in 2025 LED lighting, which is most lighting that I've seen, uses basically 0 power. It's certainly overwhelmed by electric heat/cooling, by entertainment devices, by computers, just about anything else that uses electricity. What used to run 5 lightbulbs now runs 30 LEDs. Also, unless you actually "stopped doing things" when it was dark, DST does nothing to change the number of hours of darkness, and many of the larger lighting projects like on highways or train stations would run anyways. Whether you have your lights on for an hour in the morning getting ready or an hour at night before sleep - your light is still on for an hour.

And that's the fundamental incomprehensible issue - it's like people think shifting the time means more hours of light in the day - but of course that isn't and could NOT BE TRUE.

Most of the complainers have no problem with staying up an extra hour to watch a movie/sporting event or some other performance. Most of the complainers have no problem getting up extra early if they have something they want to do that necessitates it (going fishing, hunting or whatever).

This applies exactly the same to you. If you don't have any issue with these, just get up early or stay up late, but don't drag me into it.

They do like having 2 extra times a year to complain about something.

If it's no problem to stay up late or get up early, why not just get rid of the entire reason for us to complain? Get rid of DST, and I'll tell you, I'll stop complaining about it. I seriously doubt anyone is going to then start complaining about getting rid of it - we went for over 2,000 years as human civilization without anyone writing complaints that there was no DST / time change. This isn't even an old tradition as most traditions go - what - the postcard above makes me thing it's at most 110 years old? This isn't like dropping Christmas. And really - why is anyone attached to this as a tradition anyway? It's not a festival, it's not a family bonding or community bonding moment - it has no deeper meaning I'm aware of. It's apparently to ... what help us win a war that's been over for more than 100 years? I think it's time to close that chapter of history.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I don't think there ever was, and there certainly isn't in 2025 a reason or actual benefit to mucking around with the clocks.

Not that I give even half a bleep about it, but you talk from a narrow view. Farmers? Commuters? People who want to go for a run either before or after work?

NOTHING we do daily is dependent on daylight

Wrong. Just plain wrong. There are plenty of things people do outside that they will not / cannot do in the dark.
When kids took the bus to school (a quaint old ritual) daylight for them was (maybe still is in some places) part of this discussion.

It's not like we get off work early or get to go late because it's still dark out or getting dark out.

Do you commute in a car? Have you ever lived on the West Coast. I know people who do adjust when they leave home or leave the office due to how dark it is when they're on the road or when they want to be home after work due to ... wait for it ... amount of daylight remaining after they get home.
Do you go for a run in the evening? before dinner?

many of the larger lighting projects like on highways or train stations would run anyways

train stations? LOL. Idk the #s, but I will bet lighting in office bldgs consumes far more power than highways + train stations does

it's like people think shifting the time means more hours of light in the day

That is one of the wildest strawmen I have ever seen

why not just get rid of the entire reason for us to complain?

because it is better than the Comedy Channel

 

[jp10558]

Not that I give even half a bleep about it, but you talk from a narrow view.

So do the "it's only complainers" who think DST is crazy people.

Farmers?

Why is it "complainers" can "just deal with [what I see as unnecessary] time changes" but Farmers can't just change their hours?

Commuters?

Is your argument that DST eliminates ... well I'm not sure what it fixes here for commuters.

People who want to go for a run either before or after work?

I completely fail to understand why everyone needs to mess up their schedules for some people's preferred exercise? Or again, why these runners can't "suck it up" and go for a run when it works for them?

Wrong. Just plain wrong. There are plenty of things people do outside that they will not / cannot do in the dark.

Are you actually arguing that there is more hours of sunlight or what here? If "it's so easy to just shift your schedule" then... shift your outside schedule? It's like - "Oh the complainers abut DST should just change how they do things, but us make everything complicated changing the time people couldn't possibly change how we do things." The hypocrisy is astounding.

When kids took the bus to school (a quaint old ritual) daylight for them was (maybe still is in some places) part of this discussion.

DST never got rid of months of darkness for getting on the bus when I was a kid. I personally think this is a silly reason to keep DST however - again, instead of messing with *the world* we could just move school later in the day you know. For those of you who think changing times isn't a problem, why is changing a start time for school from idk 8AM to 9AM a problem, but if we do the same thing physically by making everyone else who isn't going to school pretend 9AM is actually 8AM it's "stupid complaining"? I'm just asking that the people with the issue deal with that issue and not force it onto me who otherwise doesn't have an issue with a consistent fricken time.

Do you commute in a car?

Not much anymore.

Have you ever lived on the West Coast.

No.

I know people who do adjust when they leave home or leave the office due to how dark it is when they're on the road or when they want to be home after work due to ... wait for it ... amount of daylight remaining after they get home.

So how does adjusting when you leave ... change without DST? Adjust when you leave. This is agreeing with me as far as I can tell.

Do you go for a run in the evening? before dinner?

I don't run. I have no idea how many people run on weekdays, but AI suggests around 8.6% in the US. I'm going to suggest the other ~91% should win out.

train stations? LOL. Idk the #s, but I will bet lighting in office bldgs consumes far more power than highways + train stations does

My point is just - do you think when it's darker in the morning the office buildings turn the lights off? Do you really think that there's a noticeable savings by *shifting* the hour? And if there is - why wouldn't companies - that you know, like to save money - already be saying, well when we go back to Standard time, we just change our work hours to change back to DST? Again, my argument isn't that EST is better than EDT - just that we should stick with one.

That is one of the wildest strawmen I have ever seen

I'm completely confused about your argument then - if we're not getting more "daylight" from DST then why the heck are we doing it at all? Oh, wait - that is my entire point. If it's not about more "daylight" then - none of your objections above make any sense - please make a case for it that doesn't rely on daylight. If it *is* about there being more daylight, then explain to me why we have to change the clock to make use of the same amount of daylight.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

If it's not about more "daylight" then - none of your objections above make any sense - please make a case for it that doesn't rely on daylight.

I think to really grok this, you need to first get your arms tightly around

Unified field theory | Einstein’s Theory of Relativity | Britannica

Unified field theory, in particle physics, an attempt to describe all fundamental forces and the relationships between elementary particles in terms of a single theoretical framework. In physics, forces can be described by fields that mediate interactions between separate objects. In the mid-19th

www.britannica.com

or you'll remain a Stranger in a Strange Land. I think James Clerk Maxwell was way before his time in proposing the time shifts. And then H G Wells grabbed the baton ... until ...

 

[callwill]

You miss the major point that for vacation, business, or family travels - there's an actual reason for the individual to go through the jet lag / pain. I don't think there ever was, and there certainly isn't in 2025 a reason or actual benefit to mucking around with the clocks. NOTHING we do daily is dependent on daylight. It's not like we get off work early or get to go late because it's still dark out or getting dark out.

Maybe in 1915 (WW1) there were important energy savings, but in 2025 LED lighting, which is most lighting that I've seen, uses basically 0 power. It's certainly overwhelmed by electric heat/cooling, by entertainment devices, by computers, just about anything else that uses electricity. What used to run 5 lightbulbs now runs 30 LEDs. Also, unless you actually "stopped doing things" when it was dark, DST does nothing to change the number of hours of darkness, and many of the larger lighting projects like on highways or train stations would run anyways. Whether you have your lights on for an hour in the morning getting ready or an hour at night before sleep - your light is still on for an hour.

And that's the fundamental incomprehensible issue - it's like people think shifting the time means more hours of light in the day - but of course that isn't and could NOT BE TRUE.

This applies exactly the same to you. If you don't have any issue with these, just get up early or stay up late, but don't drag me into it.

If it's no problem to stay up late or get up early, why not just get rid of the entire reason for us to complain? Get rid of DST, and I'll tell you, I'll stop complaining about it. I seriously doubt anyone is going to then start complaining about getting rid of it - we went for over 2,000 years as human civilization without anyone writing complaints that there was no DST / time change. This isn't even an old tradition as most traditions go - what - the postcard above makes me thing it's at most 110 years old? This isn't like dropping Christmas. And really - why is anyone attached to this as a tradition anyway? It's not a festival, it's not a family bonding or community bonding moment - it has no deeper meaning I'm aware of. It's apparently to ... what help us win a war that's been over for more than 100 years? I think it's time to close that chapter of history.

You are not going thru the DST change daily. Its twice a year, one less sufferable than the other. You go thru those other machinations more often.. No one believes it gets more daylight in the day, but those that are working have more daylight leftover from their day at work to do the things they want and need to do, especially if its out doors. When mowing the lawn takes 3 hours and in the prime mowing season its at least 3x a week thats what you want. Or painting your house...or siding your house etc etc.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

no idea how many people run on weekdays, but AI suggests around 8.6% in the US. I'm going to suggest the other ~91% should win out

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The Socratic method is supposed to help people to question their ASSUMPTIONS. I am glad Socrates is not alive to see how pointless it is in the 21st Century. It is like a blank on a blank. Here you are ASSUMING that 91% of the population agrees with you, among other things.

Emerging ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Could it be the #1 danger of AI is that people will all think they have an "intelligent", pertinent answer without even forming
THE RIGHT QUESTION. The already atrophied ability of people to form a good question is going into the gutter.

I tired Socratic. Heck with that. I'm going to suggest you rethink ALL of your assumptions.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

When mowing the lawn takes 3 hours and in the prime mowing season its at least 3x a week thats what you want. Or painting your house...or siding your house

or swimming back & forth across Walden Pond in the summer, which I did often in my mid-late 20s on weekdays, after work.
Depending when I got out of work, I was often glad for that extra hour. Hard to avoid the sharks in the dark.

 

[LannyPC]

I just see no point in the time change.

It's to make better use of the limited daylight hours in the autumn and winter and the longer daylight hours in the spring and summer.

 

[easyrider]

The silver lining for me is the clocks in a couple of the vehicles are showing the right time again.

Bill

 

[LannyPC]

Yep. And yet the complaining goes on, and on, and on...

...but then stops about 18 hours, or so, after the time change when everyone has adjusted to the time change and has changed his clocks. I don't hear anyone saying, "Oh man! Since we changed our clocks yesterday, it's staying light out too late for my liking."

 

[LannyPC]

So change to DST and leave it there.

The downside to that is that in late autumn and early winter, the sun will rise late in the morning like about 9:00 AM instead of 8:00.

From your posts, I am assuming that the issue you have with changing the clocks is not so much when the sun rises or sets but rather the process of changing the clocks, correct?

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Since we changed our clocks yesterday, it's staying light out too late for my liking

We had an extra hour to put our trash out last night without using flashlights. I likeeeee. I will say I'm glad I don't commute to work in mid-March. It sure was dark @ 6 am today. But that will improve greatly in a month.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

the issue ... the process of changing the clocks

somehow I always manage to sleep through that

 

[jp10558]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The Socratic method is supposed to help people to question their ASSUMPTIONS. I am glad Socrates is not alive to see how pointless it is in the 21st Century. It is like a blank on a blank. Here you are ASSUMING that 91% of the population agrees with you, among other things.

I don't assume that 91% of the population agrees with me, I assume that running isn't a factor for the 91% of the population that don't run frequently. You were the one who used running as a reason to have DST.

Emerging ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Could it be the #1 danger of AI is that people will all think they have an "intelligent", pertinent answer without even forming
THE RIGHT QUESTION. The already atrophied ability of people to form a good question is going into the gutter.

I tired Socratic. Heck with that. I'm going to suggest you rethink ALL of your assumptions.

I don't think you're engaging with the rebuttals to your arguments so hardly Socratic. You're acting like I've just randomly come up with counter arguments when I'm replying to your sides arguments. I would not have even thought to discuss running in terms of being for or against DST because I both don't run or know anyone who does run and because I don't see how the time set in a clock affects running. I certainly don't think DST helps during much of the year in much of the US because it's still dark both before and/or after work outside of maybe June-August. So my thought is - do whatever you do in the fall, winter and spring in the summer too.

I just think the entire pro DST argument boils down to - I can't adjust my run from 6PM to 5PM for... reasons. Instead, everyone should change their clocks and lives so I can have one fixed hour to go run (or whatever) throughout the year. This seems pretty weak to me. Several US states don't do DST and they're not collapsing, so obviously that can work. We also keep changing the dates when we go to and from DST - so obviously it's not agreed when the hours need to shift for some benefit. Given we keep expanding it, I just still don't get why we don't just fix on DST. I don't see what the benefit for 3 months of the year to shift the clock is.

I have examined my assumptions - and all I can come up with is

• people are stupid (unlikely) and believe they "get more daylight".
• people can't schedule things and need "go running", or other tasks to always be at IDK 6PM. (really?)
• people think they can avoid "driving in the dark" and other tasks (still have to do it sometimes cause you don't get more daylight)
• people like the tradition (this is quite the odd tradition and I think we should kill it, or I'd like to go back to the earlier and far longer observed tradition of not doing it)

Remember, I'm for stopping changing the clocks on DST because that seems to be what more people prefer for more of the year, at least if we go by both the arguments here and the politicians claims when they kept adding more days to be DST.

So again, what assumption am I making here that's unjustified?

 

[callwill]

I will note that there had been promises made about changing this, but I guess that didn't happen. Let our bodies adjust naturally to the changing light. Linear time is a human construct, anyway.

Im pretty sure they tried that once. It was not that long before it was put back into action.
edit:
"The US briefly experimented with year-round daylight saving time in 1974, but it was reversed in October of that year after public outcry and concerns about dark winter mornings".

 

[Brett]

Time to change your smoke alarm batteries !

 

[Makai Guy]

Time to change your smoke alarm batteries !

This is a New Year's Day ritual in the Makaiguy household.