[ 2019 ] HGV. How can I stop paying Annual Maintenance Fees?

[natarajanv]

I did a quick search to see whether there was any ebay sales recently from this resort. I don't think this will pass ROFR.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-TRUMP...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I did a quick search to see whether there was any ebay sales recently from this resort. I don't think this will pass ROFR.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-TRUMP-INTERNATIONAL-HOTEL-10-500-POINTS-ANNUAL-LAS-VEGAS-NEVADA-/174115929665?hash=item288a1e3e41:g:m3cAAOSwWTRW1HPb&nma=true&si=CQvsO%2BbiR6I1eQQ3VsrB4U4tQVs%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And if it did pass, someone got a nice deal for 10,500 points. It will take many years for the diff in MF to go negative for the buyer.

 

[alwysonvac]

Here is the email and contract from HGVC that I received yesterday......................
The attachments are the contracts.

Dear Mr. & Mrs. ******,
Thank you for choosing Grand Vacations Realty, LLC, a subsidiary of Hilton Grand Vacations Company, as your listing broker in the selling process of your vacation interval.
Attached to this email as a PDF or a Microsoft Word document, you will find the Listing Agreement to be completed, signed and sent back. You may return via e-mail as a scanned document with signature or by fax with a signature. Please include the best contact number in which to present offers on the first page.

If you are having problems viewing the PDF you may not have a compatible program. You can download a free version of Adobe Reader at http://get.adobe.com/reader/. To print this document from Microsoft Word with the correct margins, please open the attachment. At the top of your screen, click on the View menu and select Print Layout. You can then print by clicking on File at the top of your screen and selecting Print. Whichever method you choose, you must follow up by sending the original signed documents back to us through the mail.

Please mail the original signed document back to the following address:
Hilton Grand Vacations
Attn: Jan Anderson, Resale Dept.
6355 Metro West Blvd.
Suite 180
Orlando, FL 32835

The listing agreement is a net agreement. Please indicate the price you would like to list your property on the second page and sign at the bottom. To do this, consider the price you want to receive for this property and add 25%. Commission is 25% or a minimum of $500.00 per transaction, whichever is greater. The suggested price range for your 2BD unit is $12,000 to $14,000; for you STP unit is $2,000 to $3,000; which includes the commission. You will be contacted with every offer.

Grand Vacation Realty will take an aggressive approach to selling your Hilton interval. We work closely with a worldwide network of quality brokers that specialize in selling timeshare. When we receive the paperwork back from you, your property will be entered into the Timeshare Multiple Listing Service, TSXchange, as well as advertised on multiple Internet sites. Please return the documents as soon as possible. Listing your unit does not relieve you of any financial responsibility for outstanding loans or fees that may come due on your account during the selling process. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me at 1-800-579-6129 or 407-722-3721. You can also email our department at resale@hgvc.com.

My staff and I will work closely with you to keep you informed and updated on the sale process. Once again, you will be contacted with every offer.

Very truly yours,
Resale Department
T 800-579-6129
6355 Metro West Boulevard, Suite 180, Orlando, FL 32835
E resale@hgvc.com W hiltongrandvacations.com
http://hgvbrandstudio.com/images/logo-hgv.png

Any comments would be very much appreciated by fellow posters.
Many thanks
Phil

Thanks for sharing

 

[alwysonvac]

Any comments would be very much appreciated by fellow posters.
Many thanks
Phil

Regardless of which route you decide to take, just keep in mind that the market is flooded with weeks for sale. It’s basically a buyer’s market.

For example, one of the biggest advertisers, Selling My Timeshare Now (SMTN) an upfront fee company, has the following for the HGVC Las Vegas Properties:

• 513 for sale listings for Hilton Grand Vacations Club On The Boulevard (link)
• 141 for sale listings for Hilton Grand Vacations Club At The Flamingo (link)
• 170 for sale listings for Hilton Grand Vacations Club On Paradise (link)
• 170 for sale listings for Hilton Grand Vacations Club At Trump (link)
• 984 for sale listings for Elara, A Hilton Grand Vacations Club Timeshares (link) but most likely half of those might be from Westgate owners.

JHMO.. I would consider giving the gold studio week away for free with the buyer paying for closing and reimbursing the 2020 maintenance fee. You can give it away on Tug (link). For the two bedroom platinum, I would set the asking price at $10k or less in order to get it sold before maintenance fees roll around again next year.

Best of Luck and please report back on your outcome.

 

[GT75]

JHMO.. I would consider giving the gold studio week away for free with the buyer paying for closing and reimbursing the 2020 maintenance fee. You can give it away on Tug (link). For the two bedroom platinum, I would set the asking price at $10k or less in order to get it sold before maintenance fees roll around again next year.

I think that @alwysonvac is giving sound advise here (I am going to increase the font size in her post above). Since you have to/already paid MFs for 2020, you might as well work on selling before 2021.

 

[Phil the Brit]

So, it appears that HGVC use the following (it is in the contract in my post above)................. Grand Vacation Realty will take an aggressive approach to selling your Hilton interval. We work closely with a worldwide network of quality brokers that specialize in selling timeshare. When we receive the paperwork back from you, your property will be entered into the Timeshare Multiple Listing Service, TSXchange, as well as advertised on multiple Internet sites.

1/ Who are Grand Vacation Realty? I think they must be part of HGVC, does every one concur?
2/ Do I go with them and sign their contract?
3/ People on this forum urged me to post the details from HGVC. You guys have seen their contract. Do I need to look at recommendations from people on here, (although no one has actually recommended anyone, Listed a few but not recommended as such).
4/ Are the fees which the HGVC company want normal?
Further input from people very welcome.
Phil

Also RichandCindy said don't use Hilton to sell but have not come back and said why not.

 

[hurnik]

So, it appears that HGVC use the following (it is in the contract in my post above)................. Grand Vacation Realty will take an aggressive approach to selling your Hilton interval. We work closely with a worldwide network of quality brokers that specialize in selling timeshare. When we receive the paperwork back from you, your property will be entered into the Timeshare Multiple Listing Service, TSXchange, as well as advertised on multiple Internet sites.

1/ Who are Grand Vacation Realty? I think they must be part of HGVC, does every one concur?
2/ Do I go with them and sign their contract?
3/ People on this forum urged me to post the details from HGVC. You guys have seen their contract. Do I need to look at recommendations from people on here, (although no one has actually recommended anyone, Listed a few but not recommended as such).
4/ Are the fees which the HGVC company want normal?
Further input from people very welcome.
Phil

Also RichandCindy said don't use Hilton to sell but have not come back and said why not.

I think, but could be wrong, that the reason to not use them is that you may pay more in fees vs. yourself (listing on TUG/Redweek and use LT Transfers to handle the paperwork). Although I'm not sure how much fees the brokers that were recommended charge. I've heard anywhere from $1,000 - $2,500 for fees.

Also, I'm not sure if HGV will get you the price in a timely fashion compared to other, but I don't have factual evidence for this. ie: They'll list your unit for say, $7k and it's 'worth' like $4500 so it'll sit there for months/years, etc. Again I'm just posing this as an example, I don't know for sure.

 

[brp]

I think, but could be wrong, that the reason to not use them is that you may pay more in fees vs. yourself (listing on TUG/Redweek and use LT Transfers to handle the paperwork). Although I'm not sure how much fees the brokers that were recommended charge. I've heard anywhere from $1,000 - $2,500 for fees.

The brokers I've worked with are in the $750-$1000 range. A redweek "full service" listing is less and they also do the paperwork. For me, my time is worth more than that in having someone else handle the details. So, as long as the broker is reputable and likely to market this properly, I'm happy to pay them to do that and handle the paperwork and other minutiae.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I think, but could be wrong, that the reason to not use them is that you may pay more in fees vs. yourself (listing on TUG/Redweek and use LT Transfers to handle the paperwork). Although I'm not sure how much fees the brokers that were recommended charge. I've heard anywhere from $1,000 - $2,500 for fees.

Also, I'm not sure if HGV will get you the price in a timely fashion compared to other, but I don't have factual evidence for this. ie: They'll list your unit for say, $7k and it's 'worth' like $4500 so it'll sit there for months/years, etc. Again I'm just posing this as an example, I don't know for sure.

+1 Agree.

25% is pretty steep (but what MVC also charges so competitive) compared to going directly to the brokers or listing it via Redweek. If you price it too high you will be paying MF longer. You can ask the buyer to pay for the 2020 MF on top of the points if they want them otherwise you can keep and use them but book before you sell. Trade-off between selling quickly and not paying future MF or taking your time to get a higher price while paying MF.

Is this an exclusive? Why don't you list with both HGVC knowing it may not sell and then list it yourself via TUG, Redweek at a lower price to offset the commission. First buyer with the best price wins.

 

[jehb2]

I don't want anything like the $70K that I paid for it, $5K to cover transfer expenses would do.

I have a two bedroom full week at 10.500 points in platinum time period AND a standard/plus at 3750 points in gold time period. Both are full weeks.

You should be able to sell the 2-bd platinum season for around $10K but I would expect that you will need to give away the gold season unit.

Just a thought. Could you “sell” the platinum week and “throw in” the gold week for free. That might be very attractive to someone.

 

[Phil the Brit]

Here is HGV response to my question about exclusivity in relation to the listing.
Phil



In reference to your questions.

You can always list your timeshare at the price of your choiceThe contract is for a year .
Please understand that this is an exclusive contract meaning that we have the exclusive right. Yes, If you decide to cancel before the expiration date just email me and I will cancel at your request.
Kind regards,

Zoraida Martinez
Listing Agent, Resale Department

 

[Phil the Brit]

My thoughts on giving the listing to someone else other than HGV is they don't accept the "incoming" buyer.
At least if they get a buyer for it they will definately be "acceptable".
Thought anyone?
Phil

 

[dayooper]

My thoughts on giving the listing to someone else other than HGV is they don't accept the "incoming" buyer.
At least if they get a buyer for it they will definately be "acceptable".
Thought anyone?
Phil

I don’t think that’s a problem. I have never heard of a buyer not being accepted.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Good to know for the exclusivity...I have no data points but HGV could theoretically reject the buyer if you listed with them and it wasn't via HGV resale if there was an exclusivity clause.

I would ask them if the property will also be sold via the HGV sales offices when they offer inventory to incoming buyers. If that is true there may be value to listing with them if they can reach buyers and sell for a higher price.

If not, then ask them what benefit they offer for the extra 10 - 15% commission that you avoid by going direct via resale brokers with the Real Estate Multiple Listing Service.

If you have time before the next MF payment you could give them 3 months to sell (and tell them so they don't sit on it thinking they have a year.) You could sign for a year but cancel at 3 months. If not sold, then cut the price and go direct to a broker or sell via Redweek Full service or TUG at an aggressive price. IMO by the time you cut out the middlemen, you will not be that far off from your fully loaded price so might be better off or the same going direct now and pricing aggressively.

With HGV mark-up you could lose more money on the deal because the inventory will sit and you will be liable for another year of MF. Don't wait a year.

 

[GT75]

I also haven't seen/heard any reports about Grand Vacations Reality. Does anyone have any information on this company?

 

[brial05]

Brit,

A few things for consideration:
You have two properties, why not try two brokers?

Next, you are in a weird area with Hilton I feel as your broker .... as a seller you want to set a price that is good for you, period.

If you and your agent set your price and I want your unit at that price and it does not pass ROFR, then that means Hilton wanted it for that price also .... I would want to yell at my agent ... price was too low then IMO.

So the weird area for me here is ... will they tell you up front .... seem like 'no' ... I believe in the email they are saying "you can set your own price" ... .. I can want to sell my house for 10 million but I would expect my agent to tell me 'no it is only worth 50k' but I would not expect my agent to guide me to sell it for 37k as an example.

I would guess if you ask them they will try to tell you each deal is unique but that is not an answer.

Stated another way:
You would be going into an agreement to sell your property with the same company that holds right of first refusal on that same property.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I wouldn't worry about ROFR. If they indicated that they won't buy it back then they don't want it. If it ends up ROFRed it doesn't matter. You met your objective at a price you are comfortable with and ultimately sold the unit. If anything, you know with ROFR the deal will close quickly and cleanly. Should you care who the buyer is?

 

[LC Travel Newbs]

I also haven't seen/heard any reports about Grand Vacations Reality. Does anyone have any information on this company?

I’m getting some experience with them as I am using Judi K to purchase an Elara unit from an owner using them for their listing. I won’t speak for her but she was instrumental in helping them set up the program with her expertise. My limited understanding is that they do handle resales for Hilton units/owners and work with a limited number of reputable brokers/agents initially before going to mls. As some are mentioning concerns of inflated and unsellable listing prices, I do feel that the “for sale” price was appropriate and not overinflated.

as for ROFR, I don’t think there’s an advantage to using them. ROFR is still a decision made by another division that is made primarily with math in mind and demand in the retail market. Regardless, ROFR being exercised is still beneficial for the seller as the seller accepts the sale contract price with the buyer prior to ROFR review. The buyer is the one who stands to lose the opportunity to own.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You can work with Judi K or other TUG recommended brokers direct for less commission. What is HGV doing to justify paying them 10%+ of your sale?

 

[brp]

You can work for Judi K direct for less commission.

Jud's standard rate is $1000, although she's been known to cut a deal for multiple listings

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@brp bingo. Knowledge is power...

 

[alwysonvac]

I also haven't seen/heard any reports about Grand Vacations Reality. Does anyone have any information on this company?

Grand Vacations Realty has been around for years supporting HGVC resales. They are listed as one of the subsidiaries in HGV’s 10-k report (on page 200 of 205 - click on thumbnail below)

Years ago, you could buy HGVC resales directly from Grand Vacations Realty via Joanne Peters TUG Member Sanibel Girl (link). Back in 2003, I actually bought my resale SeaWorld week from Joanne who simply presented my offer to HGVC owners looking to sell. However starting in 2006, she wasn’t allow to support resales on HGVC developed resorts (link).

Also back in 2006, someone indicated that contracts obtained through ROFR also ended up at Grand Vacations Realty (link)

Joanne Peters still works for Grand Vacations Realty today (link) and I believe she still supports the Florida affiliates - http://hgvc.com/tortugabeachclub/pages/Villa_Resales.html
Back in 2012, folks were still getting elite status by buying Florida affiliate resales through Grand Vacations Realty (link).

 

[alwysonvac]

I’m getting some experience with them as I am using Judi K to purchase an Elara unit from an owner using them for their listing. I won’t speak for her but she was instrumental in helping them set up the program with her expertise. My limited understanding is that they do handle resales for Hilton units/owners and work with a limited number of reputable brokers/agents initially before going to mls. As some are mentioning concerns of inflated and unsellable listing prices, I do feel that the “for sale” price was appropriate and not overinflated.

as for ROFR, I don’t think there’s an advantage to using them. ROFR is still a decision made by another division that is made primarily with math in mind and demand in the retail market. Regardless, ROFR being exercised is still beneficial for the seller as the seller accepts the sale contract price with the buyer prior to ROFR review. The buyer is the one who stands to lose the opportunity to own.

Curious... do you mind sharing your closing cost?

I think Judi normally uses TRCS however I’m assuming buyers have to deal with higher prices via Grand Vacations Realty.

There have been reports of high prices from Grand Vacations Title
https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...mpany-to-change-title-at-lagoon-tower.267541/
https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...n-help-you-modify-your-timeshare-deed.247129/

 

[Phil the Brit]

So here is my latest questions to Grand Vacations Realty. I am trying to clarify everything before I decide who to put sales through. My latest questions are at the top and their email reply at the bottom. Does anyone have any further observations before i make decision.
Thanks
Phil


Just a couple of questions more.
1/ Will the property also be marketed via the HGV sales offices when they offer inventory to incoming buyers.
2/ What benefits do you offer for the extra 10 - 15% commission that you charge versus going direct via resale brokers with the Real Estate Multiple Listing Service. It would appear that even the most established brokers are charging up to $1000 for selling a timeshare.
Yours Sincerely,


Good morning Mr. ******,
1-No, Please be advised that buyers, on the resale market, make offers through independent licensed real estate brokers and not at the HGVC sales centers.
2- We will advertised your timeshare in the MLS and also our brokers will advertised it too in their own websites. From the 25% commission Hilton only keep 5% the other 20% goes to the buyer’s broker.

 

[dayooper]

So here is my latest questions to Grand Vacations Realty. I am trying to clarify everything before I decide who to put sales through. My latest questions are at the top and their email reply at the bottom. Does anyone have any further observations before i make decision.
Thanks
Phil


Just a couple of questions more.
1/ Will the property also be marketed via the HGV sales offices when they offer inventory to incoming buyers.
2/ What benefits do you offer for the extra 10 - 15% commission that you charge versus going direct via resale brokers with the Real Estate Multiple Listing Service. It would appear that even the most established brokers are charging up to $1000 for selling a timeshare.
Yours Sincerely,


Good morning Mr. ******,
1-No, Please be advised that buyers, on the resale market, make offers through independent licensed real estate brokers and not at the HGVC sales centers.
2- We will advertised your timeshare in the MLS and also our brokers will advertised it too in their own websites. From the 25% commission Hilton only keep 5% the other 20% goes to the buyer’s broker.

2. They are the buyer’s broker. A buyer doesn’t hire a broker, they inquire about a unit and deal with the sellers broker.