[ 2017 ] How to compare point systems?

[Tugjb]

I like the idea of a points based timeshare system but it is hard to determine how many points/credits are needed for one week in a one bedroom. Each system is different. And then it gets more confusion when you look at exchanging with RCI or II. Can anyone help by directing me to some source to help me understand how to figure this out? I am hoping one or more members can help. Each salesperson I chat with seems to tell a different story. Between Marriott, Wyndham, Diamond, Hilton, etc, there doesn't seem to be a common thread.


*admin edit - adding the link to the new chart we are creating based on the discussion in this thread! please chime in with your suggestions or information to add to the chart!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-system-comparison-chart.html

 

[Passepartout]

There is no correlation between the various point systems. Or (as far as I can tell) any relation between points and dollars. It would be nice, but there are so many variables (season, view, age or time since refurb, location, sq. footage, etc.) that any number stated would have so many exemptions that it becomes meaningless. The best I can figure is to settle on one system for it's quality, locations, management, etc, then after visiting a few of their resorts you can get an idea of what sort of 'currency value' you assign it's points.

Fwiw, in RCI Points, I personally place a value on a 1 bedroom at around 30k points- but may adjust that up or down a bit with the variables noted above.

Jim

 

[WalnutBaron]

I like the idea of a points based timeshare system but it is hard to determine how many points/credits are needed for one week in a one bedroom. Each system is different. And then it gets more confusion when you look at exchanging with RCI or II. Can anyone help by directing me to some source to help me understand how to figure this out? I am hoping one or more members can help. Each salesperson I chat with seems to tell a different story. Between Marriott, Wyndham, Diamond, Hilton, etc, there doesn't seem to be a common thread.

You're right. There is no common thread. Each system "scores" its properties, time of year, weekend days vs. weekday days, and many other variables differently. The only real way to compare is by carefully studying each system and the points assigned to each property and interval. One possible way to get some idea is to pick a location you think you'd like to visit often (Florida Keys, Hawaii, Palm Springs, etc.) and then look at properties offered by as many of the points system purveyors as you can find. Go to the TUG Reviews to see how TUGgers rate the properties so that you can have some idea that you're comparing apples to apples, and then look at how many points each system charges for us of comparable intervals at those properties. It's a lot of work, but it's probably the best way to understand the true cost of comparable intervals at the various systems.

 

[Jan M.]

It would be very helpful if you could provide some information to help us help you.

Which resort system offers the most resorts in areas that you are likely to visit or close enough for you to drive to? Is there a particular vacation experience that you are primarily interested in like beaches, ski areas, mountains for hiking, etc.?

If you have talked to that many sales people then I'm assuming you've done sales presentations at various resorts. Are there any systems you toured that you would rule out based on what you saw when you toured or any that particularly impressed you? Have you stayed at any of the resorts in any of the systems you mentioned?

If you can't think of a better location I suggest using Orlando. Start a thread in each system's forum asking how many points are needed for the same week in the same unit size at the resorts in that area. Next you need to get some idea of how many points you need to have and what you will likely have to pay to get that many points. Lastly you need to also have some idea of what the maintenance fees are on that many points. That last step can be a little more difficult because for systems like Wyndham the maintenance fees per point are based on where you are deeded at, your home resort. I don't know if the other systems are like that or not.

Based on what I've read in the threads I would suggest you not look at resorts in Mexico at this time!

Maybe there is one of us here on TUG that owns in most of the different systems and can make some recommendations.

 

[Tugjb]

It would be very helpful if you could provide some information to help us help you.

Which resort system offers the most resorts in areas that you are likely to visit or close enough for you to drive to? Is there a particular vacation experience that you are primarily interested in like beaches, ski areas, mountains for hiking, etc.?

If you have talked to that many sales people then I'm assuming you've done sales presentations at various resorts. Are there any systems you toured that you would rule out based on what you saw when you toured or any that particularly impressed you? Have you stayed at any of the resorts in any of the systems you mentioned?

If you can't think of a better location I suggest using Orlando. Start a thread in each system's forum asking how many points are needed for the same week in the same unit size at the resorts in that area. Next you need to get some idea of how many points you need to have and what you will likely have to pay to get that many points. Lastly you need to also have some idea of what the maintenance fees are on that many points. That last step can be a little more difficult because for systems like Wyndham the maintenance fees per point are based on where you are deeded at, your home resort. I don't know if the other systems are like that or not.

Based on what I've read in the threads I would suggest you not look at resorts in Mexico at this time!

Maybe there is one of us here on TUG that owns in most of the different systems and can make some recommendations.

Thanks for the direction Jan. I will avoid buying anything in Mexico. But I am trying to get a handle on POINTS. How many Marriott points does it take for an average week in a 1 bedroom? Hyatt? Diamond? Wyndham? WorldMark? (credit to confuse things more). There must be someplace or someone who has done the comparisons before. I have been to Diamond and to Shell (Wyndham).

 

[Tugjb]

You're right. There is no common thread. Each system "scores" its properties, time of year, weekend days vs. weekday days, and many other variables differently. The only real way to compare is by carefully studying each system and the points assigned to each property and interval. One possible way to get some idea is to pick a location you think you'd like to visit often (Florida Keys, Hawaii, Palm Springs, etc.) and then look at properties offered by as many of the points system purveyors as you can find. Go to the TUG Reviews to see how TUGgers rate the properties so that you can have some idea that you're comparing apples to apples, and then look at how many points each system charges for us of comparable intervals at those properties. It's a lot of work, but it's probably the best way to understand the true cost of comparable intervals at the various systems.

Guess I was looking for a short cut. I see you own at Hyatt. Limited number of properties but very nice. What does an AVERAGE week in a one bedroom cost in points with Hyatt? Is it hard to book in the Hyatt system since their inventory is low? Does it cost the same number of points in their Exchange program? Thanks for the response.

 

[GT75]

For Hilton Grand Vacations Club (HGVC) the base number of points for 1-BD platinum season is 4,800 points and 1-BD plus is 6,200 points. This to me is the standard point structure. Some of the newer properties have increased point requirements.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Guess I was looking for a short cut. I see you own at Hyatt. Limited number of properties but very nice. What does an AVERAGE week in a one bedroom cost in points with Hyatt? Is it hard to book in the Hyatt system since their inventory is low? Does it cost the same number of points in their Exchange program? Thanks for the response.

Not sure what an "average" week would be, but you should be able to get a week during non-peak season for about 1100 points. I've found that--as long as I plan ahead and am flexible with dates--I can usually find just about anything I'm looking for at all but Hyatt Ka'anapali and Aspen (unless I'm looking for Aspen during shoulder seasons). Aspen and the two Lake Tahoe properties are very difficult to get during ski season. I'm not sure I agree that inventory is low. It's true that Hyatt is one of the smaller systems, but the resorts and the units are uniformly off-the-charts outstanding.

 

[GT75]

Not sure what an "average" week would be

I agree that the question which the OP has asked is really hard to answer, but I think that I understand the intent of the question. It would be nice to somehow easily compare the different TS point systems. I know that I am lost if I try to understand a system different than the one which I am in. I always like it when someone who owns more than 1 or 2 tries to compare the different systems.

My suggestion would be to somehow narrow down the search somehow. I would maybe approach it from what are the requirements such as travel/vacation location(s), travel time, party size, ect.

 

[WinniWoman]

I probably shouldn't comment on points systems as I am a weeks owner. I do know a lot of people like the points systems of RCI and Wyndham.

I do not like the RCI points system because you are essentially locked into using RCI - forever. That means paying the membership fee, the increasing exchange fees etc. every time you want to go somewhere, rather than just showing up for your week and your unit at your favorite resort- no exchange company membership fee or exchange fees and no surprises.

 

[HudsHut]

I like the idea of a points based timeshare system but it is hard to determine how many points/credits are needed for one week in a one bedroom.

WorldMark
Week in 1 bedroom is generally 8,000 - 13,000 credits,
Week in 2 bedroom is generally 10,000 - 16,000 credits

Credits required for each resort can be found here. Click on https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

 

[geist1223]

Wyndham Club Pass which is an internal Exchange Program between Worldmark and Wyndham Points does allow a comparison. Approximately 13 Wyndham Points = 1 Worldmark Point. I am a Worldmark Member. If I want to book a Wyndham Resort through Wyndham Pass that would cost a Wyndham Member 260,000 Wyndham Points it will cost me 20,000 Worldmark Points plus the $99 Exchange Fee. Ron P has previously said this is still a deal in some ways because my MF's to Worldmark for those 20,000 Points is probably less than MF's that Wyndham Member pays on the 260,000 Points. That same Reservation through RCI would cost me 10,000 Worldmark Points but with a higher Exchange Fee.

 

[easyrider]

Regarding Worldmark points, most reservations also require a house keeping token worth $54 for a studio to $132 for a 3 bedroom Presidential.

The majority of two bedroom Worldmark inventory in RED season require 10,000 points per week and a house keeping token. The majority of one bedroom Worldmark inventory in RED season require 8000 points and a house keeping token.

Each Worldmark reservation may be subject to an occupancy tax depending on location.

So for a two bedroom Worldmark unit @ 10,000 points the cost is $752.43 for the points and one house keeping token, $95 for a house keeping token if you don't have one and the occupancy tax.

Link to taxes, house keeping fee and points cost below.
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/2015_housekeeping_and_bonus_time_fees.shtml
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/Tax_Information.pdf
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/WorldMark_Dues_Schedule.pdf

Bill

 

[DAman]

Wyndham Club Pass which is an internal Exchange Program between Worldmark and Wyndham Points does allow a comparison. Approximately 13 Wyndham Points = 1 Worldmark Point. I am a Worldmark Member. If I want to book a Wyndham Resort through Wyndham Pass that would cost a Wyndham Member 260,000 Wyndham Points it will cost me 20,000 Worldmark Points plus the $99 Exchange Fee. Ron P has previously said this is still a deal in some ways because my MF's to Worldmark for those 20,000 Points is probably less than MF's that Wyndham Member pays on the 260,000 Points. That same Reservation through RCI would cost me 10,000 Worldmark Points but with a higher Exchange Fee.

From Worldmark to Wyndham using this internal exchange the WM credits have to be developer purchased to exchange.

This is of no value to those who purchased WM resale. For me it would be of no value anyway because I use all my WM credits to stay at WM's.

 

[sue1947]

Regarding Worldmark points, most reservations also require a house keeping token worth $54 for a studio to $132 for a 3 bedroom Presidential.

Bill

The link provided is for 2015 HK. The current HK fees are from $60 to $170 per unit depending on size.

 

[easyrider]

Regarding the Worldmark reservations, the buy in isn't included. These contracts seem to be selling for about 40 cents a point. A 10,000 point contract could cost about $4000 + transfer costs when buying resale.

 

[Sandy VDH]

What to know what most Wyndham resorts are in points ..... Here is the latest directory. Yes I know it is 2014-15 but they haven't issued a new one since then. There are a few new resorts, but the point chart is only available online....

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/index.php

 

[Sandy VDH]

Wyndham Club Pass which is an internal Exchange Program between Worldmark and Wyndham Points does allow a comparison. Approximately 13 Wyndham Points = 1 Worldmark Point.

Points can fluctuate. I inquired about Club pass for WM Marble Falls, TX. 2 BR Red season WM is 12500 for a 2 BR for a week. It is 206000 Wyndham points for the same timeframe.

So that is exchange is 16.5 to 1. I guess some transactions might be a better value than others.

 

[easyrider]

Points can fluctuate. I inquired about Club pass for WM Marble Falls, TX. 2 BR Red season WM is 12500 for a 2 BR for a week. It is 206000 Wyndham points for the same timeframe.

So that is exchange is 16.5 to 1. I guess some transactions might be a better value than others.

With Worldmark the cost is 10,000 points for a two bedroom unit plus a housekeeping token for a dollar cost of about $755 in red season. What do you think is the cost of a two bedroom Wyndham for a two bedroom unit in red season ?

Bill

 

[Sandy VDH]

With Worldmark the cost is 10,000 points for a two bedroom unit plus a housekeeping token for a dollar cost of about $755 in red season. What do you think is the cost of a two bedroom Wyndham for a two bedroom unit in red season ?

Bill

Are you saying the Marble Falls in only 10,000 points. Where does that come from. This is what I found on the WM website....

 

[easyrider]

Are you saying the Marble Falls in only 10,000 points. Where does that come from. This is what I found on the WM website....
View attachment 3848

If you look at the WM gallery and look at the point requirements you would find most WM two bedroom units take 10,000 points in red season. The WM inventory that requires more points are the Wyndham acquisitions as developer for Worldmark .

Geez Sandy, if you don't know you don't know. I was wanting to figure out the dollar cost for a two bedroom unit in red season with Wyndham points. How does this WM link help ?
It doesn't.

Bill

 

[Sandy VDH]

Geez Sandy, if you don't know you don't know. I was wanting to figure out the dollar cost for a two bedroom unit in red season with Wyndham points.
Bill

Well Bill since I don't own Worldmark so I was NOT aware that MOST 2 BRs in red season were 10K. I know about Wyndham and what WM is available via Wyndham. I do not know WM point values within the WM system. I assumed you had a different point chart somehow, one that I had NO access to. I was just asking for clarification. This resort is a mystery on the Wyndham side, as no one can provide any points information. There answer is book something and you will figure out how many points it is. Thanks Wyndham for no information. Just looking for clarity on points Bill, not costs.

 

[rhonda]

I like the idea of a points based timeshare system but it is hard to determine how many points/credits are needed for one week in a one bedroom. Each system is different. And then it gets more confusion when you look at exchanging with RCI or II. Can anyone help by directing me to some source to help me understand how to figure this out? I am hoping one or more members can help. Each salesperson I chat with seems to tell a different story. Between Marriott, Wyndham, Diamond, Hilton, etc, there doesn't seem to be a common thread.

You are correct, there is no common thread between/across different point systems. ;-)
Once upon a time, many years ago, TUG had an article comparing the various systems using a matrix. It was a grand resource but required great effort to maintain as things changed over time.

To me, the big areas to compare across point systems:

• Dues per "typical reservation" (how much will that "generic 1BR week" cost?). Are dues "flat rate per point" or tiered? Are there dues advantages to certain ownership levels?
• Other fees charged per reservation: Reservation Fee? Housekeeping? TOT? etc?
• Home resort: yes or no? How does this work across the set of destinations that interest you most?
• Banking / Borrowing options and costs?
• Reservation Cancellation policy?
• Reservation rules/restrictions? Such as ... minimum/maximum number of nights required per reservation? how early/late can one book? arrive on any day of the week or only Fri/Sat/Sun? can a 7-night stay span more than one resort? can one book multiple units for guests?
• Can one book w/out using points? (Are there ways to purchase points if you are short? Does the system offer bonus time/cash rentals to the owners?)
• Which exchange companies are supported?
• How often or under what circumstances may the point-values change across the system?
• How are the resorts within the points-system network? Are they in locations that interest you? Do they meet your quality standards? Are the unit sizes a good fit for your family? (Some resort properties may offer only studio units; others may only offer 2BR?)
• Does the points system offer affiliate resorts or an internal exchange system across multiple networks? Costs involved?
• Features restrictions based on retail/resale? Which features are limited -- do they make a difference to you?
• etc.

 

[easyrider]

Well Bill since I don't own Worldmark so I was NOT aware that MOST 2 BRs in red season were 10K. I know about Wyndham and what WM is available via Wyndham. I do not know WM point values within the WM system. I assumed you had a different point chart somehow, one that I had NO access to. I was just asking for clarification. This resort is a mystery on the Wyndham side, as no one can provide any points information. There answer is book something and you will figure out how many points it is. Thanks Wyndham for no information. Just looking for clarity on points Bill, not costs.

All of the Worldmark by Trendwest (Trendwest developer for WM ) inventory is 10,000 points in red season which is most of the WM resorts. All of the Worldmark by Wyndham ( Wyndham developer for WM since about 2006 ) require more points for smaller units in mostly refurbished hotel units in larger cities. San Diego has Balboa Park and Inn at the Park with 13,500 points for a one bedroom hotel unit. There are some new resorts as well like the WM Aneheim which requires 16,000 points for a two bedroom unit.

Wyndham as the Worldmark developer has bought more existing inventory in older condos and hotel and doing conversions than actually building resorts.

With Worldmark you can figure out the points required by looking at the resort galleries. Points cost a little over 7 1/2 cents a point when looking at the mf's.

I have no clue about how much a two bedroom Wyndham costs regarding ownership so I haven't bought any Wyndham yet. I would kind of like to in a way, just to increase my resort footprint but I won't until I figure it out. I can trade into most of the Wyndham with Worldmark anyway.

Bill

 

[bnoble]

I am trying to get a handle on POINTS. How many Marriott points does it take for an average week in a 1 bedroom? Hyatt? Diamond? Wyndham? WorldMark? (credit to confuse things more).

I know you want the answer to this question, but it is the wrong question to ask. There isn't an obvious way to directly compare points/credits in one system vs. points/credits in another---except by converting everything to dollars. And even then, I believe it's the wrong way to think about it.

Here's what I think is the right way to think about it. First, look for a system that has resorts that you want to visit. It may be the case that there is really only one system that has an appealing set of resorts. If that's where you end up, then the question is simple: Figure out which resorts/unit sizes/seasons you are most likely to visit. Given that, what are the one-time and recurring costs to buy into the system, and are those costs you are comfortable paying?

If there are more than one system that seems to fit your vacation plans, only then should you worry about comparing them. And, that decision isn't going to be driven only by dollars, it will also be driven by quality. That's because, in general, the nicer resorts cost more to buy (even resale) and maintain. After all, this is as much a lifestyle decision as a financial one.