[2015] Marriott to acquire Starwood hotels

[SueDonJ]

I didn't say Troll - I said trolling...
meaning putting out a post like that... what was the purpose?

Sometimes folks get frustrated and expect the worst. Sometimes any change is looked at as a bad thing. Sometimes folks just like to voice their fears to gain power over them. Sometimes you just need to vent. TUG's as good a place as any to do it.

 

[dioxide45]

Sometimes folks get frustrated and expect the worst. Sometimes any change is looked at as a bad thing. Sometimes folks just like to voice their fears to gain power over them. Sometimes you just need to vent. TUG's as good a place as any to do it.

I think though that this was a non Starwood owner or perhaps lower level owner points out that "your" elite benefits would get removed. So they weren't referring to themselves. Looked more as a way to raise eyebrows than venting or frustration. I think DavidnRobin post #113 is more of an accurate definition.

 

[SueDonJ]

Was there something in MAR's statements that the purchase of HOT was dependent on HOT first getting rid of VSE?

I think MAR can still buy HOT and then spin off VSE (isn't SVO a bunch of separate legal companies, all effectively wholly owned subsidiaries of HOT?), and ILG or someone else, or no-one, could buy out VSE. Or they could just keep VSE.

Who knows...

Still way too many moving parts and scenarios -- we have wait and see what actually happens before panic sets in.

From the press release on news.marriott.com on 11/16/15:

... The transaction is subject to Marriott International and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide shareholder approvals, completion of Starwood’s planned disposition of its timeshare business, regulatory approvals and the satisfaction of other customary closing conditions. Assuming receipt of the necessary approvals, the parties expect the transaction to close in mid-2016. ...

MAR spun off its own timeshare division in 2011. It doesn't appear that they'd want to take the risk of VSE not being spun off in advance of the acquisition.

 

[Helios]

Still way too many moving parts and scenarios -- we have wait and see what actually happens before panic sets in.

Very true, that's the only thing to do now.

 

[John Cummings]

I didn't say Troll - I said trolling...
meaning putting out a post like that... what was the purpose?

Isn't somebody that is trolling a troll? In any event it doesn't matter.

 

[DeniseM]

I doubt that somebody who has 140 posts on TUG is a troll.

I think you confusing "shill" and "troll." A troll posts baloney to stir the doo doo - has nothing to do with the number of posts one has.


***Clarification: I am not calling anyone a "troll."

What I'm saying is that a regular TUG member with lots of posts can still be a troll.

When Ridewithme38 posted on a regular basis, I called him a troll about once a week, and he has over 3,000 posts!

 

[okwiater]

Isn't somebody that is trolling a troll? In any event it doesn't matter.

No. Someone can lie without being a liar. It's the difference between describing an action vs. describing someone's character.

 

[okwiater]

So here's a possibility which hasn't been discussed yet:

The transaction is subject to Marriott International and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide shareholder approvals, completion of Starwood’s planned disposition of its timeshare business, regulatory approvals and the satisfaction of other customary closing conditions.

Since the ability to convert into Starpoints and grant Elite status has been a critical component of the SVO timeshare salesperson's toolkit, doesn't the Marriott acquisition of Starwood potentially materially devalue the SVO acquisition as well, particularly if SPG is going to be gutted? If so, it seems possible (if unlikely) that this news could unravel the SVO acquisition and thereby lead to the unraveling of the Marriott acquisition as well.

 

[dioxide45]

So here's a possibility which hasn't been discussed yet:



Since the ability to convert into Starpoints and grant Elite status has been a critical component of the SVO timeshare salesperson's toolkit, doesn't the Marriott acquisition of Starwood potentially materially devalue the SVO acquisition as well, particularly if SPG is going to be gutted? If so, it seems possible (if unlikely) that this news could unravel the SVO acquisition and thereby lead to the unraveling of the Marriott acquisition as well.

You would think that there would have been some mention of a possible sale of HOT to MAR when the negotiations were happening between HOT and ILG. I also wonder how involved in the negotiations MAR will be on the VSE transaction, given that they are to be the new owner of HOT.

It would be good to know what ILG thinks of the HOT/MAR transaction. Did they know about it when they announced their acquisition of VSE or were they caught off guard?

 

[steve b]

This was exactly my point over on the Marriott Thread. These co branding deals were made far before the announced acquisition of Starwood Hotels Corp by Marriott. I also think a brand new consolidated timeshare exchange program run similar to the Destination Club is absolutely on the horizon. If it weren't for that they never would have done this deal

 

[Ken555]

This was exactly my point over on the Marriott Thread. These co branding deals were made far before the announced acquisition of Starwood Hotels Corp by Marriott. I also think a brand new consolidated timeshare exchange program run similar to the Destination Club is absolutely on the horizon. If it weren't for that they never would have done this deal

Um...sure. You really think the timeshare business is more important to Marriott than the hotel business? I suggest you look at the numbers.


Sent from my iPad

 

[gkbiiii]

Based on what?

When the merger is complete, most on flyertalk think the SPG guest program will be dissolved and that lifetime status, will not be honored in the new program. Most of the key benefits are not part of the current Marriott guest program.

As well, I believe that the interval sale will mean that their is NO longer ANY association to even a new hotel rewards program.

 

[gkbiiii]

Easier access to Harborside Atlantis? Not sure what you mean.

IMHO, lifetime plat will go away, I seriously doubt it will be replaced by Marriott's Plat which is worse than SPG.

1. The ability to use points to book Harborside.
2. The Starwood priority given by Interval to trade into Harborside.
3. It is possible that this may remain intact with the Interval sale but: Marriott just bought the Atlantis Resort, it is quite possible that it may soon do a full buyout, of Harborside as well.

 

[gkbiiii]

You were correct in saying "trolling" -- the post was spurious antagonization based on nothing. NO

Yes, it is certainly possible for lifetime SPG Platinum and Starpoints transfers to go away, but those risks were created during the VSE spinoff, not the Marriott acquisition. From a legal & contractual perspective, Marriott's acquisition changes absolutely nothing since they are buying Starwood in its entirety including the Westin & Sheraton brands, to which SVO/VSE/ILG has a long-term exclusive license which includes the ability to provide Elite status and points. NO

The only real risk in my mind is points devaluation, which is a problem for all SPG members not just SVO owners. However, notwithstanding Marriott's "responsibility to shareholders," if one of the stated reasons for acquiring Starwood was the value of the SPG program, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to simply transform it into Marriott Rewards and obliterate its inherent value. Will we see changes? Yes, almost certainly. But while I don't see Marriott's acquisition of Starwood as a "net positive," I also don't think reality is going to look anything like the pessimistic doom and gloom scenarios being discussed.

By the middle of 2016 Interval International will be the full owner of Starwood Vacation Ownership, NOT Marriott. I don't see there being ANY relationship with Marriott & Interval with these vacation club properties. I think the brand names will stay (for a while at least) but as we have seen with the Ritz Carlton properties and others, maybe not.

All this I did not see coming: last week has been a pure disaster, for airline and hotel frequent guest programs!!!

 

[gkbiiii]

By the middle of 2016 Interval International will be the full owner of Starwood Vacation Ownership, NOT Marriott. I don't see there being ANY relationship with Marriott & Interval with these vacation club properties. I think the brand names will stay (for a while at least) but as we have seen with the Ritz Carlton properties and others, maybe not.

All this I did not see coming: last week has been a pure disaster, for airline and hotel frequent guest programs!!!

What I am saying, is not at all, controversial on the flyertalk site. It is the common consensus. I predict that Harborside will be sold to Marriott to be re-flagged a Marriott Vacation Club Resort. This would be an outstanding addition to their international portfolio.

 

[SueDonJ]

... As well, I believe that the interval sale will mean that their is NO longer ANY association to even a new hotel rewards program.

That's so extreme. Why do you think so? IMO the SPG program will be a different animal when it's merged under the Marriott Rewards umbrella on both the hotel and timeshare sides, but there hasn't been any indication that MI intends to sever the affiliation between the the former SPG and the timeshares. When all is said and done if things go as announced then VSE will be a separate company similar to how MVW is a separate company from MI. MVW kept the timeshare affiliation with Marriott Rewards when it was spun off of MI; why wouldn't VSE (under the ILG umbrella) be able to?

 

[SueDonJ]

What I am saying, is not at all, controversial on the flyertalk site. It is the common consensus. I predict that Harborside will be sold to Marriott to be re-flagged a Marriott Vacation Club Resort. This would be an outstanding addition to their international portfolio.

Don't get me wrong - this is not at all meant to be a bashing of flyertalk. I love that site, think it's the absolute best for hotel and air miles information. But when it comes to timeshares what FT'ers present is not always based on experience. I wouldn't go looking for a timeshare consensus at FT.

 

[gkbiiii]

SPG won't exist by 2017 and by that time, Interval ownership will be fully in control. Perhaps Interval will make trades within its own trading network better for SVO properties. I really think, the future will be what Interval has planned for the future. Really, Marriott is just in this, for the Starwood hotels, so we will see what happens in the future. But one thing we know (from the Marriott Chairman's recent interview), SPG's days are numbered.

On the positive, I have had great experiences with Interval and maybe there will be some significant benefits, from being owned by them. If the SVO owners could have lower/no interval fees and higher trading power, this could be a partial win.

I should note, that gaining the Marriott Rewards Program, is really gaining nothing at all. So in the end, you loose a dead SPG program and perhaps gain something meaningful with Interval.

 

[SueDonJ]

1. The ability to use points to book Harborside.
2. The Starwood priority given by Interval to trade into Harborside.
3. It is possible that this may remain intact with the Interval sale but: Marriott just bought the Atlantis Resort, it is quite possible that it may soon do a full buyout, of Harborside as well.

Marriott Intl. didn't buy Atlantis; they entered into a long-term franchise agreement with the owners that designates Atlantis as a hotel in MI's Autograph Collection. The overwhelming majority of hotels with Marriott-brands names on them are not owned by MI but managed and/or franchised by MI.

MI is not going to buy Harborside - they've been out of the timeshare business since 2011. MVW could contract with the HOA (and/or possibly majority ownership?) of Harborside to manage it, but buying it outright doesn't fit in with the whole "asset light" strategy that MVW has been pursuing since it was spun off of MI.

 

[gkbiiii]

On the positive: Interval is a Great Company

The flyertalk crowd may fair far worse, then the Starwood owners. Marriott takeover of Starwood is HORRIBLE and the new guest program is bound to mirror that. The same with the "New & Improved" AAdvantage Program after the merger AA/US.

I think unlike above many (may) grow to like being part of Interval International. Some of their worldwide properties are outstanding, such as the Marriott Marbella and others. I really like their offers and sometimes there are really great deals. Only time will tell, what we get from them in the future.

 

[dioxide45]

What I am saying, is not at all, controversial on the flyertalk site. It is the common consensus. I predict that Harborside will be sold to Marriott to be re-flagged a Marriott Vacation Club Resort. This would be an outstanding addition to their international portfolio.

1. The ability to use points to book Harborside.
2. The Starwood priority given by Interval to trade into Harborside.
3. It is possible that this may remain intact with the Interval sale but: Marriott just bought the Atlantis Resort, it is quite possible that it may soon do a full buyout, of Harborside as well.

Marriott most certainly did not buy Atlantis. The Atlantis resort affiliatied with Marriott through their Autograph Collection. Atlantis is still independantly owned but operates under a fianchise agreement with Marriott. Really no different than any other franchise agreement that Marriott has with most of their hotels. It is not uncommon for hotels to change flags at any given time.

Marriott did provide a $100 million loan as part of the agreement, but they didn't take over any ownership of Atlantis. Atlantis is owned by Brookfield Asset Management.

I believe that Harborside was originally built as a partnership between SVN and Kerzner International. Harborside never had the Starwood name on it and Atlantis was never affiliated with Starwood. Kerzner International owned the original property and SVN sold the inventory.

Harborside is not owned by anyone but the owners now. Now VSE could sell the management rights to it I suppose, but the BOD at Harborside would likely have to be willing to affiliate with MVW. I suppose that it is possible, but I don't see it happening. Harborside is one of SVNs premier resorts and a lot of people buy in to the system to have access to it. Dropping Harborside would be a big mistake for ILG/VSE.

 

[Helios]

1. The ability to use points to book Harborside.
2. The Starwood priority given by Interval to trade into Harborside.
3. It is possible that this may remain intact with the Interval sale but: Marriott just bought the Atlantis Resort, it is quite possible that it may soon do a full buyout, of Harborside as well.

Ok, this has nothing to do with elite benefits going away because these items are available to all SVN owners with developer purchases, retro purchase, or mandatory resales...

 

[SMHarman]

What I am saying, is not at all, controversial on the flyertalk site. It is the common consensus. I predict that Harborside will be sold to Marriott to be re-flagged a Marriott Vacation Club Resort. This would be an outstanding addition to their international portfolio.

That would require VVE to choose to sell it. Not Starwood hotels.
Further, they need to seek it to the separate listed Marriott timeshare entity. Not Marriott hotels.

 

[dsmrp]

Getting a piece of the pie

Okay going out on a limb here.
After reading the posts last week from the news about Marriott buying Starwood hotels, a certain 70's song got stuck in my head. Maybe because of some posters reaction to the news. Here's my first and last (?) effort at song parody I only got half way, maybe someone else could finish up the remaining verses or do a rewrite? or a youtube ?:rofl:
Well hope you enjoy, it was fun for me and DH.

<cue the music>

A long long time ago
I can still remember how
My VOIs used to make me smirk
Cause I knew if I had my search
That I could make those uptrades work
By eplus retrade and flexing for a while

But starry options drained my wallet
On every unit I’d deposit
Bulk drops on a diet
Oh sightings way too quiet

I do remember winter’s tales
Of Woody’s proposed two big sales,
Vacate shares and then they’ll bail
Who will we soon hail? It’s

Aye, aye my world leisure guy
Gotta buy it all those Hyatts, get a piece of the pie
Yet them good ole tuggers know how to buy
Sayin’ sales will usually lie
Re-sale is the way don’t be shy

Do you feel that HOT has cooled?
Or have we just been really fooled?
If the Chinese tell us so?
Do you believe your points still roll?
Will rewards mar your travel soul?
And can you teach me how to make ‘em grow?

Well, I know that you’re playin’ to win
Cuz’ wasting cash is a tugger’s sin
Games are getting retooled
Man, we hate not knowing the rules

Some will a covet manda-tory stock
From a pink shelly beach to a desert loch
But I know units up for hock
The day the network dies
I started sayin'

Aye, aye my world leisure guy
Gonna bill ya all those villas, get a piece of the pie
Yet them good ole tuggers know how to buy
Sayin’ sales will usually lie
Re-sale is the way we know why

Now for ten years villas been reboarded
And resort seats corporate hoarded
But, that's not how it used to be

When stay where you own was what we knew
The seasons were colored: red white n’ blue
And our time was fixed ‘tween you and me

Oh and while exchange was still gold crown
Vacation clubs were floating ‘round
Maint’nance fees just exploded
HOAs nearly imploded

And while Mary ought read books on stars
Most expect switching avatars
As we speculate from a-far
The ways our contracts pay
We’re just hoping

Aye, aye my world leisure guy
Give ‘em treats to the elites, get a piece of the pie
Yet them good ole tuggers know how to buy
Sayin’ sales will usually lie
Resale is the way do or die
. . .

 

[LisaRex]

It'd be helpful if you'd give a hint about which 70's song you have in your head.