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[ 2015 ] getting rid of starwood vacation ownership

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okwiater

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Me, I'd just hike up my big-boy pants, refinance at lower rate, and learn how to use it. Maybe renting reservations to reduce out-of-pocket cost. You probably won't get enough rental income to zero out your cost, but it can help soften the blow a lot more than a collection/foreclosure. It would show you are an adult.

That's pretty judgemental and not very helpful.

I couldn't disagree more, tahoeJoe. An adult is someone who has reached maturity, not merely someone who has drawn oxygen for 18+ years. The OP does acknowledge that they regret the purchase, and Jim was offering a mature path forward. What's wrong with being encouraged to act like an adult?
 

taterhed

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My post (above) was as forceful-yet kind as I could muster.
These threads have a way of descending into a mess; either indignant or whiny or "I can beat the system...with the help of".... ugh :annoyed:

I'm hoping it doesn't go there.
BTW: there is a an entire post on the 'what happens when you stop paying...' that is an ongoing journal of the process: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231584 interesting read

I fully agree that timeshare sales presentations are an enticing honey-trap just waiting to lure their (hapless) victims into financial chaos (for life!). But, so are car dealers, home sellers, credit card companies etc....

As others have said: 'hitch-up the big-boy/girl pants and decide what to do..."
 

midwest39

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We have a 2-bedroom lockout at Harborside. A true summer week (24), Phase 1, Friday checkin. We have had it since pre-construction. Took all our small family there already. Lost our previous home to a deed in lieu when a crook bought our subdivision (he lives in Isleworth in Orlando in an 8-figure house) and almost 3 years later, a lawsuit is still banging around in Lake County, FL court. Lost a good portion of life savings.

Have tried selling HS for a number of years. No luck. No one wants the MF ($3100 for 2016) or the closing costs (estimated $2000-$2500) Starwood told us that they will not do a deed in lieu with us at this time (thought it worth asking). My husband is the contact with Starwood because I can't take the stress.

Guess what we are going to do end of January 2016 regarding MF? Use 3 of my Social Security checks to pay for it? Load up our credit card? I'll leave it to everyone's imagination.

Everyone worried about our credit rating following our deed in lieu but we had to stop the bleeding on the other house. It went for $.20 on the dollar. Love how our legal system protects the rich.

As this HS situation goes on and on, I will report on our communications and results with Starwood on the forums.
 

dsmrp

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We have a 2-bedroom lockout at Harborside. A true summer week (24), Phase 1, Friday checkin. We have had it since pre-construction. Took all our small family there already. Lost our previous home to a deed in lieu when a crook bought our subdivision (he lives in Isleworth in Orlando in an 8-figure house) and almost 3 years later, a lawsuit is still banging around in Lake County, FL court. Lost a good portion of life savings.

Have tried selling HS for a number of years. No luck. No one wants the MF ($3100 for 2016) or the closing costs (estimated $2000-$2500) Starwood told us that they will not do a deed in lieu with us at this time (thought it worth asking). My husband is the contact with Starwood because I can't take the stress.

Guess what we are going to do end of January 2016 regarding MF? Use 3 of my Social Security checks to pay for it? Load up our credit card? I'll leave it to everyone's imagination.

Everyone worried about our credit rating following our deed in lieu but we had to stop the bleeding on the other house. It went for $.20 on the dollar. Love how our legal system protects the rich.

As this HS situation goes on and on, I will report on our communications and results with Starwood on the forums.

Sorry for your home, real estate $ problems. Maybe after the ILG purchase goes thru later next year, they'll (VSE) be more amenable to a deed back.
 

midwest39

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Sorry for your home, real estate $ problems. Maybe after the ILG purchase goes thru later next year, they'll (VSE) be more amenable to a deed back.

Thank you, Sandra, for posting a positive. I apologize for the ranting, but it has been a very frustrating situation for us.
 

taterhed

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Thank you, Sandra, for posting a positive. I apologize for the ranting, but it has been a very frustrating situation for us.

Understandably.
Medical, legal and other life events can change your situation overnight. I'm sure you'll find a solution that fits your families needs. It's always hard to remove the emotion from such a situation. We had an issue with a builder that ate several years of our lives. It was a strain on the entire family.

Our solution was really helped by getting a third party involved (who had NO emotional investment in our problems) and mediating a good solution for the family. This took the frustration out of the equation and helped us come to a decision with less blood sweat and tears. Maybe it would help you too; or maybe you've already done that.

Good luck.
 

tschwa2

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If I were you, I would start advertising on Redweek ASAP for your rental. Even though it is a summer week it is before a lot of East Coast school systems get out. That said you still should be able to cover your MF cost. At $1500 for the deluxe and $2050 for the premium side you would still have enough to cover your MF's, paypal and redweek fees. You could probably bump it up a little and still be the lowest price for that week but if your priority is to get it rented out fast and get that money back in your pocket you don't want to be much higher.
 

margolism

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If the timeshare companies themselves thought their own products were actually worth something, you would think they would do deed backs in a heartbeat.
 

Beefnot

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I couldn't disagree more, tahoeJoe. An adult is someone who has reached maturity, not merely someone who has drawn oxygen for 18+ years. The OP does acknowledge that they regret the purchase, and Jim was offering a mature path forward. What's wrong with being encouraged to act like an adult?

I would argue that an "adult" can also walk away from their obligations if they are willing to accept the consequences.
 

LisaRex

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If the timeshare companies themselves thought their own products were actually worth something, you would think they would do deed backs in a heartbeat.

This particular case isn't a deed back because the OP doesn't hold title to the deed. The finance company does.

Besides, that's like saying that if Toyota thought that their cars were actually worth something, they'd just take them back if the new owner was unable to make their car payment. A contract is a contract.

Also, remember that they've set the rules so that it actually works in Starwood's favor when a certain percentage of owners default on MFs. Not only do they get to keep whatever money they've made on the initial sale, but because they're not paying their MFs, they shut the owner out from using their villa. Guess who gets the empty rooms to rent? Hint: Not the HOA. Starwood gets them. The HOA simply bills paying owners for their pro rata portion of those delinquent fees, and the owners get nothing for their trouble.

After two years of non-payment, they foreclose, get the deed back anyway, and they are free to sell it again. It's actually a pretty nifty system if you sell a desirable product.
 

SMHarman

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This particular case isn't a deed back because the OP doesn't hold title to the deed. The finance company does.

Besides, that's like saying that if Toyota thought that their cars were actually worth something, they'd just take them back if the new owner was unable to make their car payment. A contract is a contract.

Also, remember that they've set the rules so that it actually works in Starwood's favor when a certain percentage of owners default on MFs. Not only do they get to keep whatever money they've made on the initial sale, but because they're not paying their MFs, they shut the owner out from using their villa. Guess who gets the empty rooms to rent? Hint: Not the HOA. Starwood gets them. The HOA simply bills paying owners for their pro rata portion of those delinquent fees, and the owners get nothing for their trouble.

After two years of non-payment, they foreclose, get the deed back anyway, and they are free to sell it again. It's actually a pretty nifty system if you sell a desirable product.

The deed is still held by the owner there is just a first charge / lien on the asset.

And Cars are repoed if you don't pay your car payment. The finance company repossessed and sells to recover the debt.

But you conclude correctly this could / should end with a deed in lieu of fforeclosure.
 

Scott & Laura

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I am not an attorney nor am I offering you legal advice but, I feel the above advice is very good.

You state you have honored and respected the agreement you entered into but now you have buyer’s remorse and are thinking of dishonoring your committed word to the lender. I would personally never go back on my word as many others rely on my word. Think about what dishonoring your word means to yourself before you go down this path.

You have three conflated issue to address:
• 1) You purchased - as I understand the facts correctly- deeded real estate and have a debt owing to a lender as the singular issue creating your concern
o The debt you agreed to finance this purchase most likely included pledged assets that the lender could make themselves whole or reduce their losses by lending to you as much as they can if the debt goes bad .
o Lenders buy dollar bills add labor to re-market and sell at a markup—A lumber company buys lumber adds labor and sells for a markup—same thing --they both buy a product whether lumber or a dollar bill and provide labor costs to remarket and to resell and need to recover original cost and a Profit to stay in business–they both must generate profits. most lenders operate on a tight margin 2-3% so If they have 3 bad loans in a hundred they make zero money.
o Because the core competency of a lender is selling dollar bills they added bought and added labor i.e. lending—talk to the lender up front about resolving issue and be honest—try to find a workable solution – and keep in mind and be respectful of their position ( they relied on your promise to buy money from them and repay them with a profit -- which you imply you are now considering or are thinking of not honoring—irrespective of reasons) talk to them—including refinancing at a higher rate over longer time—Keep in mind interest reflects risk so any refinance under these conditions is due to increased risk which you are communicating.
• 2) You have achieved and struggle over an $8000.00 debt---how can you be a Starwood Gold and struggle over payments for what amounts to a used car price paid over time—Why are you a Starwood Gold now?
o I think any lender will be unduly alarmed as I would be.
o You also imply that you wish to retain SPG point benefits from a transaction you do not wish to honor.
o Why do you wish to retain SPG points on an agreement which you are pondering about not honoring-- if you dishonor an agreement with your lender is it fair that they still keep their original promise and offer of SPG points to you
o I saw you have honored your payments and are in good standing to date
o I think keeping your word even if it costs you personally a lot to perform is the best course
• 3) Starwood is only a management company after the sale and they have duties to act responsibly to their company
o Starwood needs to best manage any real estate repurchase to meet needs of their company and as such they are and should act as a private customer
o Pawn Stars buying and reselling is the same as Starwood position is—They have to buy cheap enough to resell and make a profit
o People assume Starwood which was hired as a management company (such as WKORVN or WKORV should help us out personally—that is an unfair expectation placed on them

Finally I have a high credit score--who cares all that means is you use credit and repay it --- I love buying and selling for cash---I bet Bill Gates Microsoft owner has a low credit score because he does not need credit


Regards


Scott
 

alexadeparis

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I am not an attorney nor am I offering you legal advice but, I feel the above advice is very good.

You state you have honored and respected the agreement you entered into but now you have buyer’s remorse and are thinking of dishonoring your committed word to the lender. I would personally never go back on my word as many others rely on my word. Think about what dishonoring your word means to yourself before you go down this path.

You have three conflated issue to address:
• 1) You purchased - as I understand the facts correctly- deeded real estate and have a debt owing to a lender as the singular issue creating your concern
o The debt you agreed to finance this purchase most likely included pledged assets that the lender could make themselves whole or reduce their losses by lending to you as much as they can if the debt goes bad .
o Lenders buy dollar bills add labor to re-market and sell at a markup—A lumber company buys lumber adds labor and sells for a markup—same thing --they both buy a product whether lumber or a dollar bill and provide labor costs to remarket and to resell and need to recover original cost and a Profit to stay in business–they both must generate profits. most lenders operate on a tight margin 2-3% so If they have 3 bad loans in a hundred they make zero money.
o Because the core competency of a lender is selling dollar bills they added bought and added labor i.e. lending—talk to the lender up front about resolving issue and be honest—try to find a workable solution – and keep in mind and be respectful of their position ( they relied on your promise to buy money from them and repay them with a profit -- which you imply you are now considering or are thinking of not honoring—irrespective of reasons) talk to them—including refinancing at a higher rate over longer time—Keep in mind interest reflects risk so any refinance under these conditions is due to increased risk which you are communicating.
• 2) You have achieved and struggle over an $8000.00 debt---how can you be a Starwood Gold and struggle over payments for what amounts to a used car price paid over time—Why are you a Starwood Gold now?
o I think any lender will be unduly alarmed as I would be.
o You also imply that you wish to retain SPG point benefits from a transaction you do not wish to honor.
o Why do you wish to retain SPG points on an agreement which you are pondering about not honoring-- if you dishonor an agreement with your lender is it fair that they still keep their original promise and offer of SPG points to you
o I saw you have honored your payments and are in good standing to date
o I think keeping your word even if it costs you personally a lot to perform is the best course
• 3) Starwood is only a management company after the sale and they have duties to act responsibly to their company
o Starwood needs to best manage any real estate repurchase to meet needs of their company and as such they are and should act as a private customer
o Pawn Stars buying and reselling is the same as Starwood position is—They have to buy cheap enough to resell and make a profit
o People assume Starwood which was hired as a management company (such as WKORVN or WKORV should help us out personally—that is an unfair expectation placed on them

Finally I have a high credit score--who cares all that means is you use credit and repay it --- I love buying and selling for cash---I bet Bill Gates Microsoft owner has a low credit score because he does not need credit


Regards


Scott

No comment on the rest of this, but I think he is Gold by virtue of buying from the developer.
 

122707Wilsons

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Thank you so much to everyone for your help and input in this matter. Tug it is truly a very helpful website. I regret not finding it before buying the timeshare, otherwise, I think we would have made a different decision about not buying something that turn out to be pretty worthless :( . Merry Christmas to everyone. :clap:
 

okwiater

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Thank you so much to everyone for your help and input in this matter. Tug it is truly a very helpful website. I regret not finding it before buying the timeshare, otherwise, I think we would have made a different decision about not buying something that turn out to be pretty worthless :( . Merry Christmas to everyone. :clap:

Kudos to you for making the effort to find this site and learn about your options. If you decide to keep your timeshare, you should take advantage of this resource where there are lots of great people who would like nothing better than to help you learn how best to make use of it.

Merry Christmas!
 

DeniseM

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You are replying to a thread that is over a year old, which tells me that you are using the search function and looking for particular topics that you want to respond to. When you use the search function, please look at the dates you pull up, because it can go back as far as 2005.

Attending a sales presentation is voluntary - the simple answer is don't go.

I have never heard of a Starwood/Vistana sales presentation where they finger printed people.

I cannot imagine why anyone would ALLOW themselves to be finger printed in a sales presentation. Why did you not simply LEAVE?
 

VacationForever

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Ps. Dear Denisa- they have our finger prints to prove it. Sorry I didn't video tape the entire rodeo, but I never thought to.
I agree with Denise. You must not have attended a Vistana (Starwood) presentation. They do not fingerprint anyone. I also cannot imagine any system ever fingerprints someone who attends a timeshare presentation. TUG has been around a long time with several hundred thousand members and I do not recall this was ever reported by anyone.
 

Janet Godkin

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Well, maybe they are ashamed (like me to admit it.) Anyway, the resort has the paperwork, they know they FP us - after we were signing docs- if that helps??? Yes, after, but still... that is why we felt stuck. I don't need to come on here & lie about something so embarrassing.
 

dioxide45

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I was online once & watched them jump $20 before my very eyes;
I also am not aware of any system that would show an increase of MFs in real time online.
 

Janet Godkin

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Because there were so many brokers & reps coming & going I do not recall what we were FP for, but maybe it was a third party broker - could be their protocol, not Vistana per se.
 

dioxide45

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You are leaving a lot of vague information, not mentioning the timeshare systems that you keep referring to? With what company was the presentation with where they fingerprinted you? What companies website did the MF go up by $20? Is it possible you just wrote it down wrong?
 

DeniseM

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This is the Starwood/Vistana forum - so if you are posting about another company, why are you posting in this forum?

1) In my 15 years on TUG, I have never heard of anyone being fingerprinted at a Starwood/Vistana presentation - if it happened, it would be discussed here.

2) Maintenance fees do not randomly go up $20 - nor does Vistana have a website where you can go look up maintenances fees. You can only look up your own maintenance fees, in your own account. Vistana maintenance fees go up once a year, and they are released in the fall - not $20 here and there.

3) A Vistana/Starwood sales presentation would NEVER include resale people - the idea is ludicrous.

So either you are making the whole thing up, or you are not talking about Starwood/Vistana.
 

DeniseM

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"Janet" - You clearly have ulterior motives for posting here, your stories don't hold water, and you are not fooling anyone. I am completely OK with you not coming back. :wave:
 

dioxide45

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OK, you're the expert. I see the byline for TUG is "Providing the Truth About TS since 1993." How much "truth" is actually allowed on here?? I'll remove my discussion. I see the only people here are moderators and people protecting their own interests, not the interests of others. I dont need this. I've been through enough madness already. Thanks for your help, ahem, not.
I certainly don't have any interests to protect. I own four timeshares. Yes, the MFs have gone up. Am I happy about it, not really. It still works for us. I don't doubt it is possible for MFs to go up $20 while you are looking online, perhaps more likely at a resort that bills monthly vs one like Marriott or Vistana that release bills once a year.

I see you also posted in this thread and had a number of posts deleted for what appeared to be advertising an upfront fee company. Something isn't adding up. I am all for open discussion.
 

DavidnRobin

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Why state falsehoods? What is your purpose? Why write in BOLD? Heck, why not CAPS as well?

Where was your specific TS presentation?
Where is this mystery location that has VSE MFs listed? Only here on this lyin' and conniving' TUG group for VSE (Vistana) that has a posted MF database.
Why were you fingerprinted - was it for some kind of Notary? No one - zilch, nada, has anyone here ever (as in NEVER) reported getting fingerprinted? For what purpose?

Why are we doubtful? Because this particular forum has years and years of diverse experience? And no one is paid here, and no one here works for VSE - so what is our motivation too deceive or give false info.

You expect us to sit idlly by and allow misinfo to be posted and not call you on it?
This forum is definitely not for you - still trying to understand your motivation for lying?
Then react like you have been somehow wronged?
Odd.

btw - DeniseM is an expert...
You have zero credibility - so unless you have something real to offer - why bother?
 
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